Yeah, any devil could present a contract, but the more powerful they are the more likely they are to be able to actually deliver on their end of the bargain. An imp could be sent as an envoy for a more powerful devil lol... or a clever imp might pretend to be the envoy of an archdevil and use that as a ruse to get some poor rube to sell their soul to themselves instead.
I agree that any can, and that weaker ones may choose not to, for the same reason you might choose not to contract to build a house or deliver 100 tons of steel to Uruguay, you just don't know where to begin. And while we all know the price of these contracts, we don't ever really examine the penalties for breach, which are probably pretty severe. My guess is that if a mortal offered a random barbed devil a deal it didn't want to undertake, it'd kick it up the chain to a pit fiend for a finder's fee and maybe stay on the project as a middleman, but the mortal would really be doing business with the pit fiend, not the barbed devil.
At lower tiers of devil, they may write them themselves, but among the higher echelons of devils, they may seek help from denizens of Nirvana, perhaps even Maruts. I found it odd that the Yugoloths got a special contract signer while the devils didn't in MToF, I get why they have one, but the devils should have gotten one too.
At lower tiers of devil, they may write them themselves, but among the higher echelons of devils, they may seek help from denizens of Nirvana, perhaps even Maruts. I found it odd that the Yugoloths got a special contract signer while the devils didn't in MToF, I get why they have one, but the devils should have gotten one too.
Yea that’s what I was thinking too. It would make sense, but considering now that every devil wants credit for souls, I can kinda see why there wouldn’t be a set of demons explicitly bargaining for souls.
Plus there’s an image in MToF in ‘The Great Dance’ of an imp that’s wearing a suit looking over a contract, and that image gives me life.
If an imp offers services through a contract, are they offering their own power to fulfill it, or that of the archdevil they serve?
If a character petitions a devil for a powerful weapon, does the imp supply the weapon themselves, or does it come from higher up the chain?
If the petitioner requests a powerful magic deed, similar to that of a wish spell, does the imp offer the power of their superior? Would that mean the imp can offer something truly powerful?
Or is it limited to the devil making the deal? Would a deal from a bone devil be more lucrative than one from an imp?
Or are they acting with specific instructions on what is allowed?
An imp would most likely be working in service of a more powerful devil of some kind. An archdevil may even assign an imp to follow the client to monitor or even help them, but ultimately its the Archdevil who is committed to fulfilling the contract, even if the imp fails to fulfill tasks its meant to fulfill.
Similarly, an Archdevil would most likely be the one to provide a weapon, but may simply have an imp deliver it for them.
For something like a wish spell, the Imp would have no ability of its own to provide such a powerful boon. It could only deliver something (such as a scroll or perhaps a Ring of Three Wishes) that was provided to it by the Archdevil. The only way an imp could give something like that is if they have somehow gotten such a rare artifact on their own... a particularly dishonest Imp might even be tasked with delivering a rare artifact as part of its master's dealings, only to steal it and use it to make a bargain of its own.
A deal from a Bone Devil would definitely be more valuable than a deal from an Imp, if only because Bone Devils have more strength and authority.
Think of Imps more like... as the salesmen and workers for a company, and the Archdevil is the CEO. The CEO maybe doesn't care enough to involve themselves in every little thing, but there's middle managers down the line authorized for certain levels of power. So someone might sign a contract that promises their soul to a specific Archdevil, but in their dealings they'll never actually meet the archdevil in person.
And then what happens if someone summons a devil looking for military prowess, but instead summons a devil in service to Levistus (devil of quick escapes)?
If the summoned devil is unable to make the deal, do they refer them to someone else, or are they able to offer services of a different archdevil?
Or can any devil offer anything within their power?
Well, the Devils are Lawful creatures... evil, but Lawful. So they would hold up their end of the bargain, but if they're unable to that would mean that the client gets to keep their soul.
It really depends on what the DM wants, but it would really depend on the demeanor of the Devil in question. A particularly prideful Devil might try to take on any job, regardless on whether that devil has the resources to fulfill it. Although a more cunning devil might sell off the client's contract to another Devil for an immediate profit... think of it like when Loan companies sell your account to a larger company to collect on the debt for them.
And then what happens if someone summons a devil looking for military prowess, but instead summons a devil in service to Levistus (devil of quick escapes)?
If the summoned devil is unable to make the deal, do they refer them to someone else, or are they able to offer services of a different archdevil?
Or can any devil offer anything within their power?
What makes you think Levistus couldn’t grant military prowes? Quick escapes have helped more armies and changed more wars than you may realize. Also, an archdevil like him would have beings lining up willing to do almost anything to earn or pay off favors.
And then what happens if someone summons a devil looking for military prowess, but instead summons a devil in service to Levistus (devil of quick escapes)?
If the summoned devil is unable to make the deal, do they refer them to someone else, or are they able to offer services of a different archdevil?
Or can any devil offer anything within their power?
What makes you think Levistus couldn’t grant military prowes? Quick escapes have helped more armies and changed more wars than you may realize. Also, an archdevil like him would have beings lining up willing to do almost anything to earn or pay off favors.
Lol I was just using an example.
See, I get that archdevils can do basically whatever they want within the confines of a wish spell (MToF), but lower-ranking devils don’t have that power.
So why summon a devil for help? Why not beseech an archdevil?
I mean maybe a lesser devil can’t offer as much, but won’t ask as much in return (yet).
Heh. Low-level devils write the contracts themselves. Sometimes badly. With misspellings. High-level devils keep legions of documancers on retainer. :)
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Are there specific types of devils that are usually used to write contracts? Are contracts written by archdevils and delivered by other devils?
Almost all the devils I see seem to be strictly combat oriented. Can any devil present a contract? Even an imp?
Yeah, any devil could present a contract, but the more powerful they are the more likely they are to be able to actually deliver on their end of the bargain. An imp could be sent as an envoy for a more powerful devil lol... or a clever imp might pretend to be the envoy of an archdevil and use that as a ruse to get some poor rube to sell their soul to themselves instead.
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I agree that any can, and that weaker ones may choose not to, for the same reason you might choose not to contract to build a house or deliver 100 tons of steel to Uruguay, you just don't know where to begin. And while we all know the price of these contracts, we don't ever really examine the penalties for breach, which are probably pretty severe. My guess is that if a mortal offered a random barbed devil a deal it didn't want to undertake, it'd kick it up the chain to a pit fiend for a finder's fee and maybe stay on the project as a middleman, but the mortal would really be doing business with the pit fiend, not the barbed devil.
At lower tiers of devil, they may write them themselves, but among the higher echelons of devils, they may seek help from denizens of Nirvana, perhaps even Maruts. I found it odd that the Yugoloths got a special contract signer while the devils didn't in MToF, I get why they have one, but the devils should have gotten one too.
Yea that’s what I was thinking too. It would make sense, but considering now that every devil wants credit for souls, I can kinda see why there wouldn’t be a set of demons explicitly bargaining for souls.
Plus there’s an image in MToF in ‘The Great Dance’ of an imp that’s wearing a suit looking over a contract, and that image gives me life.
If an imp offers services through a contract, are they offering their own power to fulfill it, or that of the archdevil they serve?
If a character petitions a devil for a powerful weapon, does the imp supply the weapon themselves, or does it come from higher up the chain?
If the petitioner requests a powerful magic deed, similar to that of a wish spell, does the imp offer the power of their superior? Would that mean the imp can offer something truly powerful?
Or is it limited to the devil making the deal? Would a deal from a bone devil be more lucrative than one from an imp?
Or are they acting with specific instructions on what is allowed?
An imp would most likely be working in service of a more powerful devil of some kind. An archdevil may even assign an imp to follow the client to monitor or even help them, but ultimately its the Archdevil who is committed to fulfilling the contract, even if the imp fails to fulfill tasks its meant to fulfill.
Similarly, an Archdevil would most likely be the one to provide a weapon, but may simply have an imp deliver it for them.
For something like a wish spell, the Imp would have no ability of its own to provide such a powerful boon. It could only deliver something (such as a scroll or perhaps a Ring of Three Wishes) that was provided to it by the Archdevil. The only way an imp could give something like that is if they have somehow gotten such a rare artifact on their own... a particularly dishonest Imp might even be tasked with delivering a rare artifact as part of its master's dealings, only to steal it and use it to make a bargain of its own.
A deal from a Bone Devil would definitely be more valuable than a deal from an Imp, if only because Bone Devils have more strength and authority.
Think of Imps more like... as the salesmen and workers for a company, and the Archdevil is the CEO. The CEO maybe doesn't care enough to involve themselves in every little thing, but there's middle managers down the line authorized for certain levels of power. So someone might sign a contract that promises their soul to a specific Archdevil, but in their dealings they'll never actually meet the archdevil in person.
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And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
And then what happens if someone summons a devil looking for military prowess, but instead summons a devil in service to Levistus (devil of quick escapes)?
If the summoned devil is unable to make the deal, do they refer them to someone else, or are they able to offer services of a different archdevil?
Or can any devil offer anything within their power?
Well, the Devils are Lawful creatures... evil, but Lawful. So they would hold up their end of the bargain, but if they're unable to that would mean that the client gets to keep their soul.
It really depends on what the DM wants, but it would really depend on the demeanor of the Devil in question. A particularly prideful Devil might try to take on any job, regardless on whether that devil has the resources to fulfill it. Although a more cunning devil might sell off the client's contract to another Devil for an immediate profit... think of it like when Loan companies sell your account to a larger company to collect on the debt for them.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
What makes you think Levistus couldn’t grant military prowes? Quick escapes have helped more armies and changed more wars than you may realize. Also, an archdevil like him would have beings lining up willing to do almost anything to earn or pay off favors.
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Lol I was just using an example.
See, I get that archdevils can do basically whatever they want within the confines of a wish spell (MToF), but lower-ranking devils don’t have that power.
So why summon a devil for help? Why not beseech an archdevil?
I mean maybe a lesser devil can’t offer as much, but won’t ask as much in return (yet).
@dasmon
Summoning an Archdevil is also much more dangerous, and presumably much more difficult. Baby steps
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Beseech = pray to basically, in this context.
Which would be how a (for example) a death row inmate might pray to Levistus for an escape.
Heh. Low-level devils write the contracts themselves. Sometimes badly. With misspellings. High-level devils keep legions of documancers on retainer. :)