I found this forum shortly after posting my other one so sorry for the double post!! Still rusty on forums
How do you, fellow DM's, get past the lack of effort from your players?
I've written out a zombie tabletop, using DnD as a basis for gameplay, and I'm struggling to keep the motivation in writing the world because of my players. I have tried my hardest to get the point across that this is a realistic apocalypse and you yourself are the player, and yet everyone acts like a moron One of my players for WEEKS was trying to find any loop hole he could to fornicate with the zombies. I have written out characters for them to interact with and give them ample opportunity to thrive in the roleplay of DnD, and I'm met with a meh response.
I guess my two points on this:
1 - How do you overcome the disappointment with putting in so much effort just for none of it to be returned 2 - Is it better to start anew, or hope they will get better?
I'm sorry. I've been there, and done that, and I'm afraid there's pretty much nothing you can do but learn to roll with it.
For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that most players are like that. They come to relax and joke around with friends, not to engage in a intense tournament like game, and them joking and playing around is par for course. Until you can learn to live with that and accept that as reality, you'll just be disappointed.
Wishing you the best
Alexander Atoz
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM, writer, and blog master of https://dragonencounters.com/ a blog dedicated to providing unusual, worthwhile encounters for each monster, making each one unique.
Also, suggestions for which monsters might be found together (for people tired of dungeons full of one humanoid race, and perhaps a few beasts and undead.)
Two rules to be a successful DM and I would argue, of doing any kind of creative work for D&D, for example, publishing your own adventures and supplements.
1. Do it because you love doing it. Have no expectations of a kind reception from your players or economic success if you are publishing. Two things will always happen that are important as a result. You will gain experience and make your creations better next time, and you can engage with your players (or audience) to try to decipher what they liked and didn't like about your latest work and use that information to do something that will work better for them next time. The goal is improvement as much as it is success.
2. Write for your audience, not for yourself. Ok so this is more important when creating custom stuff for your gaming group rather than publishing because your local group is small compared to a general audience like DM Guild, which you generally don't have any information about. What I mean by that is that you need to know what your players like and work within those confines; there is no sense in creating something your players are not interested in playing. If they don't like Zombie Apocalypse themes, creating a Zombie Apocalypse theme for them is a waste of time and you will never know if the campaign was good or not, because you're running it for the wrong audiance.
You have to remember that your players are your audience and as a DM you are creating for your audience. It's fine to take risks, but chances of discovering they don't like what you created is much higher than and you really just have to accept that.
To answer your question more specifically. Being a DM is more often disappointing than not. For every successful multi-year campaign I have had, I had several duds that didn't work out. I think it's pretty normal. Its really more likely that a campaign will fail for any number of reasons, than lightning striking and having your vision become a beloved game. When it happens though, its brilliant and an awesome experience, something very much worth pursuing.
The answer to your second question is.. yeah.. if it's not working, don't torture yourself, don't torture your players, cut your losses and start over. Best thing to do, though is to have a long, hard and honest talk about what happen, why it didn't work, really do the discovery and don't argue with your players, get their feedback and just listen and take it in.
One other piece of advice and this is more general. If you are trying to do something creative outside of the sort of core D&D cliche, it's almost always better to use a different system that is more suited to what you are doing, than trying to find a way to squeeze it into the confines of D&D.
For example, I had this idea (similar to yours,actually) where I wanted to run a modern zombie apocalypse game, but I wanted the players to essentially play "heroic" versions of themselves. I tried doing this through a lot of conversions and re-designs of D&D. It was a catastrophic failure; my players hated it, it just didn't work, and neither the story or the system translated what I was trying to achieve.
On my second attempt, I sniffed around and found this game. Not only did it work, it went off like gangbusters. D&D is a great game, but sometimes you have to realize that your creation and vision maybe doesn't jive with the system you're using, but also Sometimes just using different systems, breaks players expectations and they are more inclined to accept a unique concept when they aren't expecting a D&D story. Not sure if that makes sense, but the problem wasn't that I was doing modern zombie apocalypse; the problem was that they were expecting D&D because I was using D&D as my system. When I changed that, it got them out of that mindset and they were far more recept to the game.
I found this forum shortly after posting my other one so sorry for the double post!! Still rusty on forums
How do you, fellow DM's, get past the lack of effort from your players?
I've written out a zombie tabletop, using DnD as a basis for gameplay, and I'm struggling to keep the motivation in writing the world because of my players. I have tried my hardest to get the point across that this is a realistic apocalypse and you yourself are the player, and yet everyone acts like a moron One of my players for WEEKS was trying to find any loop hole he could to fornicate with the zombies. I have written out characters for them to interact with and give them ample opportunity to thrive in the roleplay of DnD, and I'm met with a meh response.
I guess my two points on this:
1 - How do you overcome the disappointment with putting in so much effort just for none of it to be returned 2 - Is it better to start anew, or hope they will get better?
Emphasis mine.
It will not get better. Get a new group. Maybe new friends. Fornicating with zombies? Like... there is SO MUCH to unpack there...
I'm sorry. I've been there, and done that, and I'm afraid there's pretty much nothing you can do but learn to roll with it.
For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that most players are like that. They come to relax and joke around with friends, not to engage in a intense tournament like game, and them joking and playing around is par for course. Until you can learn to live with that and accept that as reality, you'll just be disappointed.
Wishing you the best
Alexander Atoz
I have to disagree. While joking and "table top" are often part of a game, I've had the vast majority of the games I've run over the last year be solid, fun RP experiences. I've run CoS twice, started a second game with the same group (different eldritch horror) that only ended because life sapped my ability to run 2-3 games a week. My current game is Dragonlance: SotDQ and it's been a great mix of RP and adventure and humor.
My experience is that the vast majority of games are actually very open to the DM's vibes, and most players want to the DM to have as much fun as the players do. It's about balancing the work that everyone is doing to keep the game going. I've even had some players ask me "are we going the right way" when they feel like I'm getting frustrated.
That said, I'm very aware of DNDers who don't really want more than some dice tossing, monster killing, kick down the door and kill the monster for it stuff gaming. It's important to know who you're playing with.
I found this forum shortly after posting my other one so sorry for the double post!! Still rusty on forums
How do you, fellow DM's, get past the lack of effort from your players?
I've written out a zombie tabletop, using DnD as a basis for gameplay, and I'm struggling to keep the motivation in writing the world because of my players.
I have tried my hardest to get the point across that this is a realistic apocalypse and you yourself are the player, and yet everyone acts like a moron
One of my players for WEEKS was trying to find any loop hole he could to fornicate with the zombies.
I have written out characters for them to interact with and give them ample opportunity to thrive in the roleplay of DnD, and I'm met with a meh response.
I guess my two points on this:
1 - How do you overcome the disappointment with putting in so much effort just for none of it to be returned
2 - Is it better to start anew, or hope they will get better?
I'm sorry. I've been there, and done that, and I'm afraid there's pretty much nothing you can do but learn to roll with it.
For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that most players are like that. They come to relax and joke around with friends, not to engage in a intense tournament like game, and them joking and playing around is par for course. Until you can learn to live with that and accept that as reality, you'll just be disappointed.
Wishing you the best
Alexander Atoz
DM, writer, and blog master of https://dragonencounters.com/ a blog dedicated to providing unusual, worthwhile encounters for each monster, making each one unique.
Also, suggestions for which monsters might be found together (for people tired of dungeons full of one humanoid race, and perhaps a few beasts and undead.)
Two rules to be a successful DM and I would argue, of doing any kind of creative work for D&D, for example, publishing your own adventures and supplements.
1. Do it because you love doing it. Have no expectations of a kind reception from your players or economic success if you are publishing. Two things will always happen that are important as a result. You will gain experience and make your creations better next time, and you can engage with your players (or audience) to try to decipher what they liked and didn't like about your latest work and use that information to do something that will work better for them next time. The goal is improvement as much as it is success.
2. Write for your audience, not for yourself. Ok so this is more important when creating custom stuff for your gaming group rather than publishing because your local group is small compared to a general audience like DM Guild, which you generally don't have any information about. What I mean by that is that you need to know what your players like and work within those confines; there is no sense in creating something your players are not interested in playing. If they don't like Zombie Apocalypse themes, creating a Zombie Apocalypse theme for them is a waste of time and you will never know if the campaign was good or not, because you're running it for the wrong audiance.
You have to remember that your players are your audience and as a DM you are creating for your audience. It's fine to take risks, but chances of discovering they don't like what you created is much higher than and you really just have to accept that.
To answer your question more specifically. Being a DM is more often disappointing than not. For every successful multi-year campaign I have had, I had several duds that didn't work out. I think it's pretty normal. Its really more likely that a campaign will fail for any number of reasons, than lightning striking and having your vision become a beloved game. When it happens though, its brilliant and an awesome experience, something very much worth pursuing.
The answer to your second question is.. yeah.. if it's not working, don't torture yourself, don't torture your players, cut your losses and start over. Best thing to do, though is to have a long, hard and honest talk about what happen, why it didn't work, really do the discovery and don't argue with your players, get their feedback and just listen and take it in.
One other piece of advice and this is more general. If you are trying to do something creative outside of the sort of core D&D cliche, it's almost always better to use a different system that is more suited to what you are doing, than trying to find a way to squeeze it into the confines of D&D.
For example, I had this idea (similar to yours,actually) where I wanted to run a modern zombie apocalypse game, but I wanted the players to essentially play "heroic" versions of themselves. I tried doing this through a lot of conversions and re-designs of D&D. It was a catastrophic failure; my players hated it, it just didn't work, and neither the story or the system translated what I was trying to achieve.
On my second attempt, I sniffed around and found this game. Not only did it work, it went off like gangbusters. D&D is a great game, but sometimes you have to realize that your creation and vision maybe doesn't jive with the system you're using, but also Sometimes just using different systems, breaks players expectations and they are more inclined to accept a unique concept when they aren't expecting a D&D story. Not sure if that makes sense, but the problem wasn't that I was doing modern zombie apocalypse; the problem was that they were expecting D&D because I was using D&D as my system. When I changed that, it got them out of that mindset and they were far more recept to the game.
Emphasis mine.
It will not get better. Get a new group. Maybe new friends. Fornicating with zombies? Like... there is SO MUCH to unpack there...
"Teller of tales, dreamer of dreams"
Tips, Tricks, Maps: Lantern Noir Presents
**Streams hosted at at twitch.tv/LaternNoir
I have to disagree. While joking and "table top" are often part of a game, I've had the vast majority of the games I've run over the last year be solid, fun RP experiences. I've run CoS twice, started a second game with the same group (different eldritch horror) that only ended because life sapped my ability to run 2-3 games a week. My current game is Dragonlance: SotDQ and it's been a great mix of RP and adventure and humor.
My experience is that the vast majority of games are actually very open to the DM's vibes, and most players want to the DM to have as much fun as the players do. It's about balancing the work that everyone is doing to keep the game going. I've even had some players ask me "are we going the right way" when they feel like I'm getting frustrated.
That said, I'm very aware of DNDers who don't really want more than some dice tossing, monster killing, kick down the door and kill the monster for it stuff gaming. It's important to know who you're playing with.
"Teller of tales, dreamer of dreams"
Tips, Tricks, Maps: Lantern Noir Presents
**Streams hosted at at twitch.tv/LaternNoir