I have a role-play-loving player who recently made a bard themed after Sherlock Holmes. Unfortunately, it was a one-shot that I ran since most of the full group was absent and therefore was unable to put in the time to give the character anything that utilized her skills in the encounters.
The group has decided they want to come back to the one-shot setting as a sort of side-campaign should all our group not show up again. The setting is a city that is slowly being overrun by a Mind-Flayer scout and his small army of intellect devourers as they begin taking over important city figures. Our group has discovered the conspiracy and have been marked as outlaws by the devoured city officials. So we ended with them planning to go to one of the two feuding crime families to see if they could garner underworld support and fight back against the Illithid.
With this in mind, what would be some good details to tack onto my npc's and villains that would make for interesting encounters for my detective bard to deduct? She is high in intellect, so investigation is easy, but she is more interested in being able to tell things about people by looking at them like Sherlock Holmes does. However her wisdom, and therefore insight and perception, are quite low.
Maybe bump her wisdom, make her proficient in insight or give a magic item, like a monocle or something, that gives advantage on insight checks vs humanoids. That exact thing she wants to do falls directly under the Insight skill.
Edit: Or make investigation checks to notice things like “oh he has dirty hands so he must be a day laborer or perhaps he was digging in the dirt earlier...” Basically, Investigation could be used to notice physical clues on a person if you wanted to do it that way but I feel like they would need to be close enough to inspect them. Even though that traditionally falls under Perception, you’re the DM so you can allow what you want. The end goal is to have fun after all.
For some reason this made me think of that scene in Ace Ventura 2 when Ace notices the white guano on the guy's shoe and realized he was holding the great white bat hostage.
(Memory is weird like that!)
Anyway, something similar maybe? Spotting soot or smelling smoke on clothing and realizing they've been near a fire or chimney. Gives a clue about location, just need to fill in the motivation or what was done.
Also, money trails. Where a suspect spends their coin is always a fun thing to investigate.Vices come in many forms and can point out new leads and connections.
An interesting idea would be to have slight indicators of who is affected, glazed eyes, slow speech, that kinda thing. The hard part is pointing out important details without seeming like your pointing out important details. Have your story ready to go, then
1. what characters might the bard interact with
2. Is this an important character that is evil or is needed to progress the story line
3. How do I want this character to progress the story
4. What might this person have been doing (This, that, or the other) that will lead the bard to the conclusion that will advance the story line
5. Give a detail that will push the Bard to the conclusion that they were doing (this, that, or the other)
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"D&D is just finding the most creative ways to annoy the DM."-Me
"Rolling a critical is the scalpel to shaping reality. Wish is the chainsaw."-Also Me
I was actually discussing a homebrew rule with her where she can replace her proficiency in perception/deception for insight/perception on an individual humanoid. Because (by my reasoning) if the person knows a detective could tell something about them she shouldn’t have known, they would be on their guard against her. Still just in the thinking stage at the moment, but I think it’s not the worst idea. Thanks for the response!
In general I feel like a character with low Wisdom and high Intelligence scores would be able to easily deduce information from blatant but obscure interactions:
A lordling in the thrall of this mind flayer, in an attempt to seduce this character, may quote a line from a poem. Intelligence check. "You recognize this as a translation of Devoured Emotions by Xphlyosys, The One (and only) Illithid Poet."
There has been new graffiti popping up all around town. Intelligence check. "This dark purple paint is almost imperceptibly glowing, it can only have come from a rare albino octopus found in the deepest reaches of the Underdark."
Two rival merchant houses unite under a new banner. Intelligence check. "You’ve seen the emblem decorating their flags and emblazoned on the shields of the united house guards before. Oh yes, it was tattooed on the cover of a flesh bound tome describing a mind flayer colony long thought dead."
In these circumstances I wouldn’t require a perception check to notice if a person was having a conversation with you, that there is new graffiti everywhere or someone is literally waving a flag in your face.
As far as contesting a deception check with an Intelligence (insight) check, I would imagine that it would take more time and be more obvious. A lawyer cross-examining a witness, repeatedly asking questions, comparing new answers to previous ones, logically deducing when someone is lying. A detective in a interrogation, shining bright light in a suspects face, measuring pupil dialation and notating each tic. Where as a Wisdom insight check represents this as an instinctual awareness of all these factors, at a more subconscious level, without having to pause and process. You may not know how or why you know something is deceiving you, but you know they are. How you represent that difference in game play depends on how you use skill checks/contests. I like the idea of allowing someone to make a deception check using a different ability modifier, much in the same way grappling works. Posibly making it more situationally conditional, you probably couldn’t grill a noble at their own fete (at least not without making a powerful enemy). In the end though go with what makes your game fun.
In general I feel like a character with low Wisdom and high Intelligence scores would be able to easily deduce information from blatant but obscure interactions:
A lordling in the thrall of this mind flayer, in an attempt to seduce this character, may quote a line from a poem. Intelligence check. "You recognize this as a translation of Devoured Emotions by Xphlyosys, The One (and only) Illithid Poet."
There has been new graffiti popping up all around town. Intelligence check. "This dark purple paint is almost imperceptibly glowing, it can only have come from a rare albino octopus found in the deepest reaches of the Underdark."
Two rival merchant houses unite under a new banner. Intelligence check. "You’ve seen the emblem decorating their flags and emblazoned on the shields of the united house guards before. Oh yes, it was tattooed on the cover of a flesh bound tome describing a mind flayer colony long thought dead."
In these circumstances I wouldn’t require a perception check to notice if a person was having a conversation with you, that there is new graffiti everywhere or someone is literally waving a flag in your face.
As far as contesting a deception check with an Intelligence (insight) check, I would imagine that it would take more time and be more obvious. A lawyer cross-examining a witness, repeatedly asking questions, comparing new answers to previous ones, logically deducing when someone is lying. A detective in a interrogation, shining bright light in a suspects face, measuring pupil dialation and notating each tic. Where as a Wisdom insight check represents this as an instinctual awareness of all these factors, at a more subconscious level, without having to pause and process. You may not know how or why you know something is deceiving you, but you know they are. How you represent that difference in game play depends on how you use skill checks/contests. I like the idea of allowing someone to make a deception check using a different ability modifier, much in the same way grappling works. Posibly making it more situationally conditional, you probably couldn’t grill a noble at their own fete (at least not without making a powerful enemy). In the end though go with what makes your game fun.
Thanks for the advice! I’ve often thought that it would make sense to be bike to use intelligence in some cases for insight checks.
I also like your suggestions for weeding out intellect devourers, they’re giving me somebody ideas.
I would come up with list of secrets, lets say 10, that you to be reveled, then as encounters happen decide the manner in which to deliver them. Then you are not tied to a specific NPC, and you can be creative with the delivery of the secret.
There are two paths here, i assume. The role play path of the player putting clues together and making deductions and solving a puzzle or mystery. Or the dice rolling you found the clues and since rolling you figured it out. Personally if the players want the brain challenge of role play figuring it out i would write puzzles and mysteries for them to figure out. I encourage my players to role play things out before resorting to dice rolls to determine things.
For example questioning someone to get clues it information. If they player is particularly creative or good at it I give them results. If they are struggling at it I'll have them roll with a DC based on their attempt at role play. For example the intention is to deceive NPC(s). I'll ask them what do you say and or do to deceive them. If I feel what they came up with want adequate enough for auto success I do the latter.
Low Insight and Perception suggests to me that the character would have trouble noticing the Sherlockian tells on NPCs. So the smear of ink on the finger, the pigment dust on the clothing, and the small knife cut, all of which taken together showing that the person works as a scribe in the scriptorium might be overlooked. Investigation would be the ability that would put these clues together to reveal that the character is a scribe. At least that is how I see it. Perception to gather the clues, Investigation to interpret the clues. Insight to deduce motive and emotional state of a person.
If this were a character in my game I would sit down with the player to discuss how they see the character and what they want to be able to do. Then I would help them adjust the character to suit. I have a house rule that players are allowed to rebuild their characters after the first session to better fit the character concept. Sometimes play reveals that things aren't quite working the way you wanted.
As for setting up mysteries, clues, etc for the player/character to figure out, I am afraid that despite years of Call of Cthulhu I still suck at this. I do like to give the players a chance to figure out the mystery on their own first, then use the dice and game mechanics if they find themselves beating their heads against the wall where the character should have a chance to figure it out.
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I have a role-play-loving player who recently made a bard themed after Sherlock Holmes. Unfortunately, it was a one-shot that I ran since most of the full group was absent and therefore was unable to put in the time to give the character anything that utilized her skills in the encounters.
The group has decided they want to come back to the one-shot setting as a sort of side-campaign should all our group not show up again. The setting is a city that is slowly being overrun by a Mind-Flayer scout and his small army of intellect devourers as they begin taking over important city figures. Our group has discovered the conspiracy and have been marked as outlaws by the devoured city officials. So we ended with them planning to go to one of the two feuding crime families to see if they could garner underworld support and fight back against the Illithid.
With this in mind, what would be some good details to tack onto my npc's and villains that would make for interesting encounters for my detective bard to deduct? She is high in intellect, so investigation is easy, but she is more interested in being able to tell things about people by looking at them like Sherlock Holmes does. However her wisdom, and therefore insight and perception, are quite low.
Any ideas/advice is appreciated!
Maybe bump her wisdom, make her proficient in insight or give a magic item, like a monocle or something, that gives advantage on insight checks vs humanoids. That exact thing she wants to do falls directly under the Insight skill.
Edit: Or make investigation checks to notice things like “oh he has dirty hands so he must be a day laborer or perhaps he was digging in the dirt earlier...” Basically, Investigation could be used to notice physical clues on a person if you wanted to do it that way but I feel like they would need to be close enough to inspect them. Even though that traditionally falls under Perception, you’re the DM so you can allow what you want. The end goal is to have fun after all.
DM of Amnian Nights: The Blackmore Saga
Homebrew Listings: A Fine Mustache (Magic Item), Icicle (magic item), Malice (magic item), Restore Undead (spell), Hex Bolt (spell), Healing Salve (consumable)
For some reason this made me think of that scene in Ace Ventura 2 when Ace notices the white guano on the guy's shoe and realized he was holding the great white bat hostage.
(Memory is weird like that!)
Anyway, something similar maybe? Spotting soot or smelling smoke on clothing and realizing they've been near a fire or chimney. Gives a clue about location, just need to fill in the motivation or what was done.
Also, money trails. Where a suspect spends their coin is always a fun thing to investigate.Vices come in many forms and can point out new leads and connections.
An interesting idea would be to have slight indicators of who is affected, glazed eyes, slow speech, that kinda thing. The hard part is pointing out important details without seeming like your pointing out important details. Have your story ready to go, then
1. what characters might the bard interact with
2. Is this an important character that is evil or is needed to progress the story line
3. How do I want this character to progress the story
4. What might this person have been doing (This, that, or the other) that will lead the bard to the conclusion that will advance the story line
5. Give a detail that will push the Bard to the conclusion that they were doing (this, that, or the other)
"D&D is just finding the most creative ways to annoy the DM."-Me
"Rolling a critical is the scalpel to shaping reality. Wish is the chainsaw."-Also Me
I was actually discussing a homebrew rule with her where she can replace her proficiency in perception/deception for insight/perception on an individual humanoid. Because (by my reasoning) if the person knows a detective could tell something about them she shouldn’t have known, they would be on their guard against her. Still just in the thinking stage at the moment, but I think it’s not the worst idea. Thanks for the response!
In general I feel like a character with low Wisdom and high Intelligence scores would be able to easily deduce information from blatant but obscure interactions:
In these circumstances I wouldn’t require a perception check to notice if a person was having a conversation with you, that there is new graffiti everywhere or someone is literally waving a flag in your face.
As far as contesting a deception check with an Intelligence (insight) check, I would imagine that it would take more time and be more obvious. A lawyer cross-examining a witness, repeatedly asking questions, comparing new answers to previous ones, logically deducing when someone is lying. A detective in a interrogation, shining bright light in a suspects face, measuring pupil dialation and notating each tic. Where as a Wisdom insight check represents this as an instinctual awareness of all these factors, at a more subconscious level, without having to pause and process. You may not know how or why you know something is deceiving you, but you know they are. How you represent that difference in game play depends on how you use skill checks/contests. I like the idea of allowing someone to make a deception check using a different ability modifier, much in the same way grappling works. Posibly making it more situationally conditional, you probably couldn’t grill a noble at their own fete (at least not without making a powerful enemy). In the end though go with what makes your game fun.
Thanks for the advice! I’ve often thought that it would make sense to be bike to use intelligence in some cases for insight checks.
I also like your suggestions for weeding out intellect devourers, they’re giving me somebody ideas.
I would come up with list of secrets, lets say 10, that you to be reveled, then as encounters happen decide the manner in which to deliver them. Then you are not tied to a specific NPC, and you can be creative with the delivery of the secret.
There are two paths here, i assume. The role play path of the player putting clues together and making deductions and solving a puzzle or mystery. Or the dice rolling you found the clues and since rolling you figured it out. Personally if the players want the brain challenge of role play figuring it out i would write puzzles and mysteries for them to figure out. I encourage my players to role play things out before resorting to dice rolls to determine things.
For example questioning someone to get clues it information. If they player is particularly creative or good at it I give them results. If they are struggling at it I'll have them roll with a DC based on their attempt at role play. For example the intention is to deceive NPC(s). I'll ask them what do you say and or do to deceive them. If I feel what they came up with want adequate enough for auto success I do the latter.
Low Insight and Perception suggests to me that the character would have trouble noticing the Sherlockian tells on NPCs. So the smear of ink on the finger, the pigment dust on the clothing, and the small knife cut, all of which taken together showing that the person works as a scribe in the scriptorium might be overlooked. Investigation would be the ability that would put these clues together to reveal that the character is a scribe. At least that is how I see it. Perception to gather the clues, Investigation to interpret the clues. Insight to deduce motive and emotional state of a person.
If this were a character in my game I would sit down with the player to discuss how they see the character and what they want to be able to do. Then I would help them adjust the character to suit. I have a house rule that players are allowed to rebuild their characters after the first session to better fit the character concept. Sometimes play reveals that things aren't quite working the way you wanted.
As for setting up mysteries, clues, etc for the player/character to figure out, I am afraid that despite years of Call of Cthulhu I still suck at this. I do like to give the players a chance to figure out the mystery on their own first, then use the dice and game mechanics if they find themselves beating their heads against the wall where the character should have a chance to figure it out.