The AL DMG v8 says that advancement checkpoints are awarded at a rate of 1/hour rounded down. The section on treasure checkpoints doesn't contain that clause. I don't see a problem awarding fractional treasure checkpoints.
Seasons 7 and Earlier: The characters earn a number of [treasure] checkpoints equal to the adventure’s prescribed duration in hours (or every two hours for tier 1 and 2 groups) upon completing the adventure.
While it does not say round down, it does also not say anything about carrying over, or fractional points. For a practical example:
Players complete the adventure in 3 hours. AS WRITTEN, the points only accumulate until "completing the adventure". So the adventure stopped at 3 hours, meaning the players only earn 1 treasure checkpoint. Next session is a new adventure and so they must start counting hours at 0 and therefore treasure checkpoints start at 0 also.
We can't really say if this is what they mean or not, but after reading the rules, that could be a logical assumption.
I am asking because our store session is 3 hours. We have 50-60 people who play on one night alone each week. So now they get less treasure points because we are an odd number of hours. We don't get the gold in the narrative anymore. And if they show up 1 minute late they lose 1 advancement point as well.
yeah, this change goes a long way towards disbanding AL in favor of homebrew.
Seasons 7 and Earlier: The characters earn a number of [treasure] checkpoints equal to the adventure’s prescribed duration in hours (or every two hours for tier 1 and 2 groups) upon completing the adventure.
While it does not say round down, it does also not say anything about carrying over, or fractional points. For a practical example:
Players complete the adventure in 3 hours. AS WRITTEN, the points only accumulate until "completing the adventure". So the adventure stopped at 3 hours, meaning the players only earn 1 treasure checkpoint. Next session is a new adventure and so they must start counting hours at 0 and therefore treasure checkpoints start at 0 also.
We can't really say if this is what they mean or not, but after reading the rules, that could be a logical assumption.
KimoKhan specifically asked about playing the hardcover. The section you quoted is explicitly talking about everything except the hardcover.
For playing the hardcover in tier 1-2, characters get 1 advancement checkpoint per hour of the play session rounded down. They also get 1 treasure checkpoint per 2 hours of play. Notice that there's no mention of the words "rounded" or "session" with regards to the treasure checkpoints. That's why I think playing a 3 hour session of the hardcover will award 3 advancement checkpoints and 1.5 treasure checkpoints.
While I still don't agree with your interpretation for non-hardcover adventures, I think it's mostly a non-issue. The amount of adventures that have a "prescribed duration" of an odd number of hours is very small. The only ones that spring to mind immediately are the 1 hour mini adventures that open some seasons. I'm sure there are a few with 3 hour duration of out there too.
If we followed your interpretation, players choosing the slow boat wouldn't get treasure checkpoints at all unless they played adventures of at least 4 hours prescribed duration. I don't think it's the designer's intention for characters to be able to enter tier 3 without ever having earned a treasure checkpoint.
"The characters earn a number of [treasure] checkpoints equal to the adventure’s prescribed duration in hours", doesn't matter how many real world hours it was. It matters how many hours Wizards expected it to take. If you finish a module in the 3 hour session, and Wizards stated the module would take 1 hour, you get 1 hour.
"The characters earn a number of [treasure] checkpoints equal to the adventure’s prescribed duration in hours", doesn't matter how many real world hours it was. It matters how many hours Wizards expected it to take. If you finish a module in the 3 hour session, and Wizards stated the module would take 1 hour, you get 1 hour.
You are correct, but only in regards to non-hardcover adventures. For hardcover adventures, it really does matter how many real world hours you play. As long as you were persuing the adventure's stated goals (as determined by the DM), one advancement checkpoint per hour and treasure checkpoints per hour (based on tier) are awarded.
You probably already knew all that, but I just wanted to add it for the sake of clarity.
Hardcovers are good for getting TP, but probably not so good at unlocking magic items. Are listed magic items found in a hard cover unlocked for your character?
Hardcovers are good for getting TP, but probably not so good at unlocking magic items. Are listed magic items found in a hard cover unlocked for your character?
Pending any information in the AL Content Catalog that has yet to be released, yes they can be unlocked.
Note, unless the ALCC says otherwise, only items that can be found in DMG Magic Item Tables will be unlocked. Other items will be usable until the end of the adventure.
"Final" version out. Still no narrative with gold, which make games really dry and boring IMO. Rogue has a lot less use since statistically there is no good reason to ever open a chest.
Seeing as players only have to complete the goals to get their checkpoints, I expect people racing to complete a 4 hour adventure as fast as possible so they can get their 4 checkpoints with treasure. Lets see if we can do this in 2 hours, buy skipping all the sections that involve treasure.
It's no longer an adventure, its a puzzle on how we can get as many treasure points in the shortest time.
BTW : The 6 player table I DM has voted unanimously to go Homebrew on this alone.
If curious how I would fix this and keep the spirit of controlled gold accumulation:
Rather than give treasure points by time, treasure points are accumulated by finding them in the adventure. If a mob has treasure or a chest has treasure, then award a treasure point assuming they overcome such obstacle. Cap the max treasure points found according to expected module length. This way, the control is kept, but it is up to the players to find them. NPC payment for jobs is also a treasure point.
Is it possible that not enough treasure exists in an adventure to get one's max? Yes. In that case, any lack of treasure points could be awarded on leveling. But do not award treasure points if players intentionally passed it up.
"Final" version out. Still no narrative with gold, which make games really dry and boring IMO. Rogue has a lot less use since statistically there is no good reason to ever open a chest.
...
If curious how I would fix this and keep the spirit of controlled gold accumulation:
Rather than give treasure points by time, treasure points are accumulated by finding them in the adventure. If a mob has treasure or a chest has treasure, then award a treasure point assuming they overcome such obstacle. Cap the max treasure points found according to expected module length. This way, the control is kept, but it is up to the players to find them. NPC payment for jobs is also a treasure point.
Is it possible that not enough treasure exists in an adventure to get one's max? Yes. In that case, any lack of treasure points could be awarded on leveling. But do not award treasure points if players intentionally passed it up.
I would add to/clarify (to this suggestion) that treasure exists and is found normally and can be used within the session. At the end of the session, all remaining treasure can be converted to Treasure Points. Given that per the rules you can trade 1 TP for 50gp, I would make the ROI that for every 200gp you are find you can get 1TP. This means that to get the lower level unlocked items would be 800gp.
If you want to limit it even further, the TP count as 1 Tier lower than the adventure they were gained in, minimum Tier 1. So Tier 1 and Tier 2 coin can buy Tier 1 items, where Tier 3 coin can buy Tier 2 and lower.
I would add to/clarify that treasure exists and is found normally and can be used within the session. At the end of the session, all remaining treasure can be converted to Treasure Points. Given that per the rules you can trade 1 TP for 50gp, I would make the ROI that for every 200gp you can get 1TP. This means that to get the lower level unlocked items would be 800gp.
This is incorrect (unless I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say). The relevant quote from the ALDMG 8.1 is, "Any entry of a treasure or award with a monetary value is ignored. Any other equipment can be used (but not sold) by the characters until the end of the session but is lost at the end of the session."
According to Greg Marks, they said they want rewards to be more tied to the story, and less to random finds (such as chests, pickpocketing, etc). My best guess is that a treasure hoard is still very story-related and will be rewarded via a story award. If that is the case, it will likely be as additional treasure points. We'll know more when the ALCC is released.
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Hardcovers are good for getting TP, but probably not so good at unlocking magic items. Are listed magic items found in a hard cover unlocked for your character?
Pending any information in the AL Content Catalog that has yet to be released, yes they can be unlocked.
Note, unless the ALCC says otherwise, only items that can be found in DMG Magic Item Tables will be unlocked. Other items will be usable until the end of the adventure.
I think everyone is assuming that the Magic Item tables are coming from the DMG.
Its my opinion that this is wrong. To play AL, all you need is the FREE Basic Guide, AL Players Guide, ALCC and the FAQ.
If they start to include a resource that not everyone has, its going against the idea that is AL.
I have had advice that the Tables will be documented in the ALCC. Which would make more sense.
I would add to/clarify that treasure exists and is found normally and can be used within the session. At the end of the session, all remaining treasure can be converted to Treasure Points. Given that per the rules you can trade 1 TP for 50gp, I would make the ROI that for every 200gp you can get 1TP. This means that to get the lower level unlocked items would be 800gp.
This is incorrect (unless I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say). The relevant quote from the ALDMG 8.1 is, "Any entry of a treasure or award with a monetary value is ignored. Any other equipment can be used (but not sold) by the characters until the end of the session but is lost at the end of the session."
What I'm trying to say is that I endorse KimoKhan's idea on how to fix the gold/treasure issue most of us are complaining about, and here is my suggestion to build off of it.
Not saying it's rule, or how it is, just wishful thinking on how to make things more palatable.
Until they issue a revision correcting this massively stupid treasure points rule change, my wallet will no longer be supporting their sandbox, as I suspect will be the case with many.
At the moment, however, our groups only meet to play AL at our FLGS...
Then break free and start a homebrew. Sure you may have to meet another night, but if the store sees people leaving to play homebrew, maybe it will get the picture and support that since they want people to buy stuff. The more people who drop AL to play regular the more they may fix the issue.
Yes, I am doing just this. Oh and I'm the DM so I took 7 with me. and my FLGS store will support me, just not on AL night. They don't want the confusion of which table is home brew, which is AL
After having played 2 sessions of the new AL rules I have to say they are really jarring. Literally every single freaking AL module or hardcover constantly references gold as a reward or while adventuring. The TP system is also eye rolling stupid.
I can't believe that a freaking company with all kinds of employees, sat around a table for dozens of meetings and brain storming sessions and came up with this ludicrous system.
I'm going to keep trying it out, but I have yet to meet a single person, including a couple of new players, that like this direction. NOT A SINGLE PERSON.
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The AL DMG v8 says that advancement checkpoints are awarded at a rate of 1/hour rounded down. The section on treasure checkpoints doesn't contain that clause. I don't see a problem awarding fractional treasure checkpoints.
Per the AL DMG v8:
While it does not say round down, it does also not say anything about carrying over, or fractional points. For a practical example:
Players complete the adventure in 3 hours. AS WRITTEN, the points only accumulate until "completing the adventure". So the adventure stopped at 3 hours, meaning the players only earn 1 treasure checkpoint. Next session is a new adventure and so they must start counting hours at 0 and therefore treasure checkpoints start at 0 also.
We can't really say if this is what they mean or not, but after reading the rules, that could be a logical assumption.
I am asking because our store session is 3 hours. We have 50-60 people who play on one night alone each week. So now they get less treasure points because we are an odd number of hours. We don't get the gold in the narrative anymore. And if they show up 1 minute late they lose 1 advancement point as well.
yeah, this change goes a long way towards disbanding AL in favor of homebrew.
KimoKhan specifically asked about playing the hardcover. The section you quoted is explicitly talking about everything except the hardcover.
For playing the hardcover in tier 1-2, characters get 1 advancement checkpoint per hour of the play session rounded down. They also get 1 treasure checkpoint per 2 hours of play. Notice that there's no mention of the words "rounded" or "session" with regards to the treasure checkpoints. That's why I think playing a 3 hour session of the hardcover will award 3 advancement checkpoints and 1.5 treasure checkpoints.
While I still don't agree with your interpretation for non-hardcover adventures, I think it's mostly a non-issue. The amount of adventures that have a "prescribed duration" of an odd number of hours is very small. The only ones that spring to mind immediately are the 1 hour mini adventures that open some seasons. I'm sure there are a few with 3 hour duration of out there too.
If we followed your interpretation, players choosing the slow boat wouldn't get treasure checkpoints at all unless they played adventures of at least 4 hours prescribed duration. I don't think it's the designer's intention for characters to be able to enter tier 3 without ever having earned a treasure checkpoint.
"The characters earn a number of [treasure] checkpoints equal to the adventure’s prescribed duration in hours", doesn't matter how many real world hours it was. It matters how many hours Wizards expected it to take. If you finish a module in the 3 hour session, and Wizards stated the module would take 1 hour, you get 1 hour.
You are correct, but only in regards to non-hardcover adventures. For hardcover adventures, it really does matter how many real world hours you play. As long as you were persuing the adventure's stated goals (as determined by the DM), one advancement checkpoint per hour and treasure checkpoints per hour (based on tier) are awarded.
You probably already knew all that, but I just wanted to add it for the sake of clarity.
Hardcovers are good for getting TP, but probably not so good at unlocking magic items. Are listed magic items found in a hard cover unlocked for your character?
Pending any information in the AL Content Catalog that has yet to be released, yes they can be unlocked.
Note, unless the ALCC says otherwise, only items that can be found in DMG Magic Item Tables will be unlocked. Other items will be usable until the end of the adventure.
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"Final" version out. Still no narrative with gold, which make games really dry and boring IMO. Rogue has a lot less use since statistically there is no good reason to ever open a chest.
Seeing as players only have to complete the goals to get their checkpoints, I expect people racing to complete a 4 hour adventure as fast as possible so they can get their 4 checkpoints with treasure. Lets see if we can do this in 2 hours, buy skipping all the sections that involve treasure.
It's no longer an adventure, its a puzzle on how we can get as many treasure points in the shortest time.
BTW : The 6 player table I DM has voted unanimously to go Homebrew on this alone.
If curious how I would fix this and keep the spirit of controlled gold accumulation:
Rather than give treasure points by time, treasure points are accumulated by finding them in the adventure. If a mob has treasure or a chest has treasure, then award a treasure point assuming they overcome such obstacle. Cap the max treasure points found according to expected module length. This way, the control is kept, but it is up to the players to find them. NPC payment for jobs is also a treasure point.
Is it possible that not enough treasure exists in an adventure to get one's max? Yes. In that case, any lack of treasure points could be awarded on leveling. But do not award treasure points if players intentionally passed it up.
I would add to/clarify (to this suggestion) that treasure exists and is found normally and can be used within the session. At the end of the session, all remaining treasure can be converted to Treasure Points. Given that per the rules you can trade 1 TP for 50gp, I would make the ROI that for every 200gp you are find you can get 1TP. This means that to get the lower level unlocked items would be 800gp.
If you want to limit it even further, the TP count as 1 Tier lower than the adventure they were gained in, minimum Tier 1. So Tier 1 and Tier 2 coin can buy Tier 1 items, where Tier 3 coin can buy Tier 2 and lower.
This is incorrect (unless I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say). The relevant quote from the ALDMG 8.1 is, "Any entry of a treasure or award with a monetary value is ignored. Any other equipment can be used (but not sold) by the characters until the end of the session but is lost at the end of the session."
According to Greg Marks, they said they want rewards to be more tied to the story, and less to random finds (such as chests, pickpocketing, etc). My best guess is that a treasure hoard is still very story-related and will be rewarded via a story award. If that is the case, it will likely be as additional treasure points. We'll know more when the ALCC is released.
Feature Requests || Homebrew FAQ || Pricing FAQ || Hardcovers FAQ || Snippet Codes || Tooltips
DDB Guides & FAQs, Class Guides, Character Builds, Game Guides, Useful Websites, and WOTC Resources
I think everyone is assuming that the Magic Item tables are coming from the DMG.
Its my opinion that this is wrong. To play AL, all you need is the FREE Basic Guide, AL Players Guide, ALCC and the FAQ.
If they start to include a resource that not everyone has, its going against the idea that is AL.
I have had advice that the Tables will be documented in the ALCC. Which would make more sense.
Supreme Being of the Extra Terrestrial Plane
What I'm trying to say is that I endorse KimoKhan's idea on how to fix the gold/treasure issue most of us are complaining about, and here is my suggestion to build off of it.
Not saying it's rule, or how it is, just wishful thinking on how to make things more palatable.
Until they issue a revision correcting this massively stupid treasure points rule change, my wallet will no longer be supporting their sandbox, as I suspect will be the case with many.
...you know AL isn't the same as D&D, right? I mean, I'm frustrated too, but that just means I'm focusing more on non-AL campaigns.
I do, and agree with your point
At the moment, however, our groups only meet to play AL at our FLGS...
Then break free and start a homebrew. Sure you may have to meet another night, but if the store sees people leaving to play homebrew, maybe it will get the picture and support that since they want people to buy stuff. The more people who drop AL to play regular the more they may fix the issue.
Yes, I am doing just this. Oh and I'm the DM so I took 7 with me. and my FLGS store will support me, just not on AL night. They don't want the confusion of which table is home brew, which is AL
The store asking you to run on a different night is completely reasonable for just that reason, makes sense! 👍
After having played 2 sessions of the new AL rules I have to say they are really jarring. Literally every single freaking AL module or hardcover constantly references gold as a reward or while adventuring. The TP system is also eye rolling stupid.
I can't believe that a freaking company with all kinds of employees, sat around a table for dozens of meetings and brain storming sessions and came up with this ludicrous system.
I'm going to keep trying it out, but I have yet to meet a single person, including a couple of new players, that like this direction. NOT A SINGLE PERSON.