At level seven, this buys two uncommon magic items. After 36 hours of play time, the character only has two magic items, and likely the player is waiting until level 8 so they can get a rare, which means that the S8 level 7 characters will have on average one magic item!
The players I've been taking through TftYP at level 8 have 6+ magic items each. Season 8 is a dramatic shift from previous seasons, and causes a myriad of problems.
Characters from S7- are more powerful than characters from S8+.
Certificates or S7 DM rewards are much more valuable now.
DM S7- XP spent on a character now actually makes them significantly weaker than a S8+ character, as they only can get one magic items for every 24 hours you DM'ed (or CPs)
People Won't Waste TPs
I've been running a new group through DH, and they are, legitimately, not wasting magic item TPs on 'garbage' items. This is a shame, as when the characters found the Paper Bird, not a single one of them showed the slightest interest in burning 8 TPs to get it. This is an example of a great flavor item that adds fun and flair to the game.
The same thing applies to most of the holiday items for the AL Liars Night. Not a single player is going to burn 8 TCPs to get a Ghost Sheet when they really want that +1 weapon.
You can argue that some players are RP players or fluff players. Since I started AL earlier this year, I have DM'ed for 48 different games. I have DM'ed and played D&D since 2nd edition. 90% of players want the most optimized stuff for their character -- and that's OK! People should not be penalized for optimization.
How to Fix This
Decouple the CPs and TPs. Let a player spend TPs on their character without having to spend the CPs.
This means that if a player wants to get a 'Pipe of the Smoke Monsters' for 2 TPs, they can run a quick 2 hour module and get the TPs to do so, without limiting their long term magic item count.
As a DM, you could load one of your T1 characters with a few items if you wanted -- a suitable reward for DMing 32 hours on content.
This simple solution would fix a great deal of the issues currently found with the checkpoint system.
I understand that this season has hit item availability quite hard even though I have only one module of experience back in what I think was season 6(~18 months ago) I went from having a fresh character to having a level three and for all I know now with the conversion I would have to do to this character she would be level 4. Now for that same level of experience one would have to run three to twelve modules now since most seems to be in the 2-4 hour/cp range. Also you have the other kind of thing I am running a small group thru the sunless citadel and they have managed to take so long to get to the citadel that they already went up a level and a half by the time they even opened the front door. Granted I do have a little kid with reading issues in my group and she was being quite through with her asking questions of the villagers that she correctly guessed most of what the module was about, not that she knows how right she guessed yet.
But back on topic I understand their point I hope with these new changes but I don't think that they solve more problems than they solve. And as far as the AL Lairs Night stuff I thought you turned in Candy Corn then your character had the items in there inventory? did I misunderstand, and you only unlock the items with Candy Corn to later purchase for TP?
Okay looking closer it does appear that you were right only the disposable witch's broom and the mount are not unlocks, so I guess then that their will be a lot of people only getting the mount and one time use brooms.
But I do see a lot of people will just blitzkrieg through non-hardcovers and taking the hardcovers at a leisurely pace of a half-frozen snail. Which yes in regards to the hardcovers not feeling particularly rushed can have it's upsides in RP and discovery of content, it is just that the content for said discovery has been wholly castrated this season.
On one hand though people have to put a lot more thought into there character building now since for the most part at the earliest you are looking at level 3 for any kind of magic item outside of the odd potion or holy water.
[EDIT] an idea just hit me why not let the party collect items with gp value at least but instead of awarding them the items at the end total up the total value of what was "Obtained" divide it by the number of players, then by 50 then round up then award that amount as bonus tp. It wouldn't be a perfect solution since it would in theory increase the dm's paperwork load slightly but I think it is a better solution than what we are currently faced with.
After all that another annoying bit I've noticed is that the modules and hardbacks tend to not award 1 AP = 1 TP. Without checking every new module the award appears to be around 3/4 so every 4 AP will get you 3 TP. Now if the group does everything perfectly then it may be 1 AP = 1 TP, but I've also seen 4 AP and 0 TP awarded for modules.
how is that possible diskfan2? According to the ALDMG pg. 4 (Reward Distribution) for this season when it comes to TCP and ACP it goes as follows:
(Season 8) 1-4 TCP & 1-2 ACP per objective completed or per hour if HC.
(Season 7 and earlier) 1 ACP & 1-2 TCP per hour up to the adventures duration in hours.
Now as far as valid time for ACP and TCP in Hardcovers they have to be spent on the parties stated goals and not butterflying off to the market for 8 hours of play.
All older season modules and books follow the 1 TP = 1AP.
The modules written specifically for season 8 have TP rewards for actions occurring within the module. Again, I have not looked at all new season 8 modules. I've only seen, ran and played a handful (around 5 so far) and TP rewards are module specific. Hopefully they'll either correct those modules, or add an addendum overriding the modules. Especially if there are modules where you can gain more Treasure than Advancement.
The main problem with the TP and min maxing is the pre-ordained list of Season 8 items. My group was just turning tier 3 when season 8 began. Immediately they wanted to buy cloaks of invisibility (Rangers with Sharpshooter) so they could sit 600 ft back and snipe without response. Some people would say oh it's just disadvantage to hit the invisible rangers. That assumes you are not hidden, which you get at advantage since you are invisible. A pack of ranged snipers with cloaks of invisibility is just broken. Used to be only 1 person would get it, but now with pre-unocked lists everyone can get them as well as Staff of Magi.
If they removed the season 8 list it would not be so bad, but with that list season 8 list breaks the game with ultra min-max. That list is honestly why I left AL. Not the money, not the lack of story line immersion since players cannot collect loot, but the ultra broken no discovery needed season 8 list.
Don't y'all think that is better than having players trying to get to tier four with magic item count zero so they can snatch all the legendaries, like what was happening until season 7?
Don't y'all think that is better than having players trying to get to tier four with magic item count zero so they can snatch all the legendaries, like what was happening until season 7?
Well considering they have 2 legendaries on the season 8 unlock list for all by 13th (game breaking at that) . No i consider that worse
Just try to dm a tier 3+ when everyone has staff of magi and cloak of invisibilty
Summary
The inherent problem with the checkpoint system is that it encourages players to min-max their characters and skip 'flavor' or 'fluff' items.
Treasure Points Are a Finite Resource
Since TPs and CPs are coupled, there is a limit of how many TPs any character will ever have (barring certificates or specific modules like WPM)
At level seven, this buys two uncommon magic items. After 36 hours of play time, the character only has two magic items, and likely the player is waiting until level 8 so they can get a rare, which means that the S8 level 7 characters will have on average one magic item!
The players I've been taking through TftYP at level 8 have 6+ magic items each. Season 8 is a dramatic shift from previous seasons, and causes a myriad of problems.
People Won't Waste TPs
I've been running a new group through DH, and they are, legitimately, not wasting magic item TPs on 'garbage' items. This is a shame, as when the characters found the Paper Bird, not a single one of them showed the slightest interest in burning 8 TPs to get it. This is an example of a great flavor item that adds fun and flair to the game.
The same thing applies to most of the holiday items for the AL Liars Night. Not a single player is going to burn 8 TCPs to get a Ghost Sheet when they really want that +1 weapon.
You can argue that some players are RP players or fluff players. Since I started AL earlier this year, I have DM'ed for 48 different games. I have DM'ed and played D&D since 2nd edition. 90% of players want the most optimized stuff for their character -- and that's OK! People should not be penalized for optimization.
How to Fix This
Decouple the CPs and TPs. Let a player spend TPs on their character without having to spend the CPs.
This means that if a player wants to get a 'Pipe of the Smoke Monsters' for 2 TPs, they can run a quick 2 hour module and get the TPs to do so, without limiting their long term magic item count.
As a DM, you could load one of your T1 characters with a few items if you wanted -- a suitable reward for DMing 32 hours on content.
This simple solution would fix a great deal of the issues currently found with the checkpoint system.
I understand that this season has hit item availability quite hard even though I have only one module of experience back in what I think was season 6(~18 months ago) I went from having a fresh character to having a level three and for all I know now with the conversion I would have to do to this character she would be level 4. Now for that same level of experience one would have to run three to twelve modules now since most seems to be in the 2-4 hour/cp range. Also you have the other kind of thing I am running a small group thru the sunless citadel and they have managed to take so long to get to the citadel that they already went up a level and a half by the time they even opened the front door. Granted I do have a little kid with reading issues in my group and she was being quite through with her asking questions of the villagers that she correctly guessed most of what the module was about, not that she knows how right she guessed yet.
But back on topic I understand their point I hope with these new changes but I don't think that they solve more problems than they solve. And as far as the AL Lairs Night stuff I thought you turned in Candy Corn then your character had the items in there inventory? did I misunderstand, and you only unlock the items with Candy Corn to later purchase for TP?
That is my understanding as well
Okay looking closer it does appear that you were right only the disposable witch's broom and the mount are not unlocks, so I guess then that their will be a lot of people only getting the mount and one time use brooms.
But I do see a lot of people will just blitzkrieg through non-hardcovers and taking the hardcovers at a leisurely pace of a half-frozen snail. Which yes in regards to the hardcovers not feeling particularly rushed can have it's upsides in RP and discovery of content, it is just that the content for said discovery has been wholly castrated this season.
On one hand though people have to put a lot more thought into there character building now since for the most part at the earliest you are looking at level 3 for any kind of magic item outside of the odd potion or holy water.
[EDIT] an idea just hit me why not let the party collect items with gp value at least but instead of awarding them the items at the end total up the total value of what was "Obtained" divide it by the number of players, then by 50 then round up then award that amount as bonus tp. It wouldn't be a perfect solution since it would in theory increase the dm's paperwork load slightly but I think it is a better solution than what we are currently faced with.
Going from 4th to 5th level is based on current tier not new tier. Which I'll admin makes this even worse.
A +1 weapon cost 16 TP meaning you won't be able to get one till at least level 5.
how is that possible diskfan2? According to the ALDMG pg. 4 (Reward Distribution) for this season when it comes to TCP and ACP it goes as follows:
(Season 8) 1-4 TCP & 1-2 ACP per objective completed or per hour if HC.
(Season 7 and earlier) 1 ACP & 1-2 TCP per hour up to the adventures duration in hours.
Now as far as valid time for ACP and TCP in Hardcovers they have to be spent on the parties stated goals and not butterflying off to the market for 8 hours of play.
All older season modules and books follow the 1 TP = 1AP.
The modules written specifically for season 8 have TP rewards for actions occurring within the module. Again, I have not looked at all new season 8 modules. I've only seen, ran and played a handful (around 5 so far) and TP rewards are module specific. Hopefully they'll either correct those modules, or add an addendum overriding the modules. Especially if there are modules where you can gain more Treasure than Advancement.
The main problem with the TP and min maxing is the pre-ordained list of Season 8 items. My group was just turning tier 3 when season 8 began. Immediately they wanted to buy cloaks of invisibility (Rangers with Sharpshooter) so they could sit 600 ft back and snipe without response. Some people would say oh it's just disadvantage to hit the invisible rangers. That assumes you are not hidden, which you get at advantage since you are invisible. A pack of ranged snipers with cloaks of invisibility is just broken. Used to be only 1 person would get it, but now with pre-unocked lists everyone can get them as well as Staff of Magi.
If they removed the season 8 list it would not be so bad, but with that list season 8 list breaks the game with ultra min-max. That list is honestly why I left AL. Not the money, not the lack of story line immersion since players cannot collect loot, but the ultra broken no discovery needed season 8 list.
Don't y'all think that is better than having players trying to get to tier four with magic item count zero so they can snatch all the legendaries, like what was happening until season 7?
Well considering they have 2 legendaries on the season 8 unlock list for all by 13th (game breaking at that) . No i consider that worse
Just try to dm a tier 3+ when everyone has staff of magi and cloak of invisibilty