My players are about to leave their starting town (going to give them a good magic item here, which BBEG wants) and go to a big city, where they all have some induvidual goals. Im also going to be introducing two new PCs there (one same player swapping, one a replacement for a drop out).
Im planning on having them go to a casino/tavern type place, lure them in and distract them with loads of things, rig the games in their favour. All a fun and happy time at the festival. Then invite them to a VIP area due to their winning, after a couple games in this area Ill have them make 3 con saves to avoid paralysis/unconsciousness/blindness and deafness. Assuming they fail they'll be dragged into a dungeon, if they pass they'll be beaten unconcious by some high CRs and dragged down there, into a SAW style dungeon, I'll kill an NPC in front of them in a trap, give a BBEG monologue (to give clear direction to party), BB will then take the magic item thats important to the plot, and leave. They can then escape in the night from this dungeon, I don't want to force them to cut off their arm etc.
A big problem I can see is what if they just dont go to the casino? Or dont hang around, or myabe even stress they dont eat or drink. I want this to be a bit of a rug pull, lured into false security only to realise the BBEG is everywhere and watching them, and this should really unify them against the BB, as party cohesion has been a struggle so far. Can you guys give me some advice? Or maybe point me in the direction of a module that has done something simmilar? And if you think its an awful plan, feel free to say so and please let me know why!
I think the problems you face become larger after the casino. How will you run a saw-like dungeon?
The whole premise of DnD is that the players are heroic, powerful individuals, whilst the premise of Saw is that you have no power, and are inherently cowardly, and need to overcome this to survive.
Getting them into the Saw dungeon is fairly simple -a pitfall trap, a door closing behind them, any manner of "suddenly you're whisked away and land in this dungeon" is acceptable. Gas them in the casino if they don't eat or drink or have the casion owner implore them for help, only for it to be a trap ("Oh please slay the giant rats below the casino, I will give you free games for the night if you do!").
For the game itself, here's my suggestion:
1: To be truly Saw, this needs body horror - You need limbs to be removed, blindness, deafness, all sorts of horrible things. If you're playing in person, this can be done by having a supply of slings, blindfolds, and ear defenders to disable the players themselves - or a screen to keep them from seeing the battlemap if they are blind, so they can still see their character sheets.
2: They need a goal to strive for - in this case, I think that a potion trail is a good approach. For example, the dungeon can be laid out as:
First challenge, half the party loses a limb to get themselves free (shackled together through loops, so they must decide who loses a hand)
potion of healing, but not enough for everyone who was hurt. Hands stay cut off.
Second challenge, half the party lose their vision, and get the screen or blindfold to hamper them.
Potion of healing, eyesight stays gone
Third challenge, half the party loses their hearing, gets the ear defenders. no damage so no potion.
Fourth challenge, where they need to support each other through it. They will figure out a way.
Fifth challenge, they get split up. Players are instructed to react to the board but not to give it away, so the blind person hears "oh no! you monster" but has no concept of what it is they aren't seeing.
exit to the dungeon, potions of restoration to bring back their lost body parts and senses
Expand to incorporate any other sacrifices you'd like to include. Characters will leave with scars to mark their challenges.
Other ideas for challenges are ones where one player has to commit to being the sacrifice - EG one person must sit in this chair and be strapped in. When they are, the other characters have a challenge revealed with a timer that they must complete or bad things happen to the sacrifice. This could mean one person sacrifices themselves over and over, so cut the healing and use HP to make them realise that 3 failures will kill them (take the lowest HP of a party memmer, subtract 1, and then half it. That means if they lchallenges, they have 1hp left!). You might find a barbarian might take 4, but hey, that's what they get for being tough!
All in all, it will be difficult to run this. I think the key elements to focus on are the sacrifice and the timer. Don't try to make the characters powerless, and don't shut down every clever plan to bypass things - letting one or two get through will make it more fun. For extra twistiness, have them need to have completed the challenges to open the final door - so if they bypass one, they will have to go back afterwards and do it for real. That way they get the short-lived kick out of "outsmarting the DM", but keep the feeling of horror you need for a Saw dungeon.
Your saw dungeon idea sounds incredible! And I play online but you can deafen players/show them a black screen, so would still work 100%. I wasn't planning on running them actually through a SAW dungeon, more just showing it to them, as a reveal of how sadistic the BBEG is. However your description has honestly got me thinking of running it! Show them the potions of restoration and an escape route, that one of the BBEGS workers has left out, and have them run through that dungeon. Mentally pretty awful for the players😅, I'd need to check with them if that's ok.
A big problem I can see is what if they just dont go to the casino? Or dont hang around, or myabe even stress they dont eat or drink. I want this to be a bit of a rug pull, lured into false security only to realise the BBEG is everywhere and watching them, and this should really unify them against the BB, as party cohesion has been a struggle so far. Can you guys give me some advice? Or maybe point me in the direction of a module that has done something simmilar? And if you think its an awful plan, feel free to say so and please let me know why!
Players have a responsibility to help make the game work. If you offer them clear incentives to go somewhere, they need to follow it. I've played with a group who just refused plot hooks because they wanted to follow their own individual agendas and it was an awful to run (and imploded because you can't run 3 separate games simultaneously when they don't even want to work together). So offer them some good reason to go to a casino - a job. All PCs must want either money, to help NPCs, or power/fame. If you feel that there are characters who don't want any of those things, talk to the players out of game and explain that you can only run the game effectively if they want to be adventurers. If their ambition is to settle down and run a bakery, they need to reroll.
Be wary of "You are powerless and the BBEG stands before you doing terrible things." The PCs must have some form of agency, and be able to respond, otherwise they're watching an unpleasant cut-scene and not playing the game at all.
Since SAW grosses a lot of people out, if that's the feel you're going for, be sure you've checked whether the players are OK with that kind of content first (you can ask them about 10 different things to disguise what you really want to know, e.g. "are you ok with romance, are you ok with body horror etc.). I once played in a game where the DM made a haunted house with visions of a child being tortured and it was very unpleasant to play.
Really good point with not removing player agency/putting them in a cutscene! I think trying to make the players feel sort of powerless, or that the BBEG is too powerful for them to fight is a trap I fall into sometimes as I try to make it clear they're evil.
I think that you can show the players how weak they are in comparison to the BBEG by letting them try to attack and seeing just how futile it is. I am going to do something similar soon where the BBEG has cast invulnerability. They are level 9-10 and unless they can manage to Dispel Magic it, their attacks are just going to bounce off. Even if the PCs can deal damage, resistance to their weapon hits and a high hit point pool can do the same thing. That's much more fun than just being held in place, especially as they level up they'll feel they've earned the right to take them on properly.
Hi everyone!
My players are about to leave their starting town (going to give them a good magic item here, which BBEG wants) and go to a big city, where they all have some induvidual goals. Im also going to be introducing two new PCs there (one same player swapping, one a replacement for a drop out).
Im planning on having them go to a casino/tavern type place, lure them in and distract them with loads of things, rig the games in their favour. All a fun and happy time at the festival. Then invite them to a VIP area due to their winning, after a couple games in this area Ill have them make 3 con saves to avoid paralysis/unconsciousness/blindness and deafness. Assuming they fail they'll be dragged into a dungeon, if they pass they'll be beaten unconcious by some high CRs and dragged down there, into a SAW style dungeon, I'll kill an NPC in front of them in a trap, give a BBEG monologue (to give clear direction to party), BB will then take the magic item thats important to the plot, and leave. They can then escape in the night from this dungeon, I don't want to force them to cut off their arm etc.
A big problem I can see is what if they just dont go to the casino? Or dont hang around, or myabe even stress they dont eat or drink. I want this to be a bit of a rug pull, lured into false security only to realise the BBEG is everywhere and watching them, and this should really unify them against the BB, as party cohesion has been a struggle so far. Can you guys give me some advice? Or maybe point me in the direction of a module that has done something simmilar? And if you think its an awful plan, feel free to say so and please let me know why!
Cheers!!
I think the problems you face become larger after the casino. How will you run a saw-like dungeon?
The whole premise of DnD is that the players are heroic, powerful individuals, whilst the premise of Saw is that you have no power, and are inherently cowardly, and need to overcome this to survive.
Getting them into the Saw dungeon is fairly simple -a pitfall trap, a door closing behind them, any manner of "suddenly you're whisked away and land in this dungeon" is acceptable. Gas them in the casino if they don't eat or drink or have the casion owner implore them for help, only for it to be a trap ("Oh please slay the giant rats below the casino, I will give you free games for the night if you do!").
For the game itself, here's my suggestion:
1: To be truly Saw, this needs body horror - You need limbs to be removed, blindness, deafness, all sorts of horrible things. If you're playing in person, this can be done by having a supply of slings, blindfolds, and ear defenders to disable the players themselves - or a screen to keep them from seeing the battlemap if they are blind, so they can still see their character sheets.
2: They need a goal to strive for - in this case, I think that a potion trail is a good approach. For example, the dungeon can be laid out as:
Expand to incorporate any other sacrifices you'd like to include. Characters will leave with scars to mark their challenges.
Other ideas for challenges are ones where one player has to commit to being the sacrifice - EG one person must sit in this chair and be strapped in. When they are, the other characters have a challenge revealed with a timer that they must complete or bad things happen to the sacrifice. This could mean one person sacrifices themselves over and over, so cut the healing and use HP to make them realise that 3 failures will kill them (take the lowest HP of a party memmer, subtract 1, and then half it. That means if they lchallenges, they have 1hp left!). You might find a barbarian might take 4, but hey, that's what they get for being tough!
All in all, it will be difficult to run this. I think the key elements to focus on are the sacrifice and the timer. Don't try to make the characters powerless, and don't shut down every clever plan to bypass things - letting one or two get through will make it more fun. For extra twistiness, have them need to have completed the challenges to open the final door - so if they bypass one, they will have to go back afterwards and do it for real. That way they get the short-lived kick out of "outsmarting the DM", but keep the feeling of horror you need for a Saw dungeon.
Let us know how it ends up!
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Hi mate!
Your saw dungeon idea sounds incredible! And I play online but you can deafen players/show them a black screen, so would still work 100%. I wasn't planning on running them actually through a SAW dungeon, more just showing it to them, as a reveal of how sadistic the BBEG is. However your description has honestly got me thinking of running it! Show them the potions of restoration and an escape route, that one of the BBEGS workers has left out, and have them run through that dungeon. Mentally pretty awful for the players😅, I'd need to check with them if that's ok.
Thanks very much!
Players have a responsibility to help make the game work. If you offer them clear incentives to go somewhere, they need to follow it. I've played with a group who just refused plot hooks because they wanted to follow their own individual agendas and it was an awful to run (and imploded because you can't run 3 separate games simultaneously when they don't even want to work together). So offer them some good reason to go to a casino - a job. All PCs must want either money, to help NPCs, or power/fame. If you feel that there are characters who don't want any of those things, talk to the players out of game and explain that you can only run the game effectively if they want to be adventurers. If their ambition is to settle down and run a bakery, they need to reroll.
Be wary of "You are powerless and the BBEG stands before you doing terrible things." The PCs must have some form of agency, and be able to respond, otherwise they're watching an unpleasant cut-scene and not playing the game at all.
Since SAW grosses a lot of people out, if that's the feel you're going for, be sure you've checked whether the players are OK with that kind of content first (you can ask them about 10 different things to disguise what you really want to know, e.g. "are you ok with romance, are you ok with body horror etc.). I once played in a game where the DM made a haunted house with visions of a child being tortured and it was very unpleasant to play.
Really good point with not removing player agency/putting them in a cutscene! I think trying to make the players feel sort of powerless, or that the BBEG is too powerful for them to fight is a trap I fall into sometimes as I try to make it clear they're evil.
Thanks very much!
I think that you can show the players how weak they are in comparison to the BBEG by letting them try to attack and seeing just how futile it is. I am going to do something similar soon where the BBEG has cast invulnerability. They are level 9-10 and unless they can manage to Dispel Magic it, their attacks are just going to bounce off. Even if the PCs can deal damage, resistance to their weapon hits and a high hit point pool can do the same thing. That's much more fun than just being held in place, especially as they level up they'll feel they've earned the right to take them on properly.
Are we talking Saw as in that horror film with the weird doll/puppet/thing on the tricycle?
My ideas are OP and insane. Don't judge.
Inspired by Jigsaw
What's jigsaw? (I feel like I should know this)
My ideas are OP and insane. Don't judge.
Saw horror movie
Oh ok, thanks
My ideas are OP and insane. Don't judge.