I am starting a campaign that uses downtime and lifestyle expenses, but doesn't 100% adhere to AL rules. However, I want to make the lifestyle expenses do more then just decide how much you pay per day, because I have a player who I know will just choose wretched just so he doesn't have to pay anything ever. This isn't to punish that player, it's just to make the game more realistic and try to add another level to lifestyle expenses. The PHB gives a little info on this, but I was wanting something a little more mechanical and set in stone. I was wondering if anyone had done this or has ideas?
Off of the top of my head I think disadvantage to poison and disease checks if you live wretched, along with automatically failing any charisma check made against a character living the modest or above lifestyle.
For Wealthy and Aristocratic I was thinking something along the lines of being targeted by robbers/burglars (don't know the legal difference).
I wouldn't give the player disadvantages to poison or disease checks if they lived wretchedly, but I would make them make a periodic saving throw or contract a disease.
If you're making Lifestyle part of your campaign then I might also explore giving bonuses/penalties to social skill rolls ( Persuasion, Intimidation, etc. ) based on the difference between the character and the target. Your player-character is an Aristocrat, and they're trying to bluster past a town guard who is leading a modest life style? They may get +3 to Intimidate. It might work the other way as well, as the Artistocrat is scared of this "desperate squalid ruffian" who is trying to rob him.
You'd have to rule on that on a case-by-case basis.
I have to ask what your intent is to enforce daily lifestyle costs? I'm not criticizing, I'm just curious as to what you want the results to be?
If it fits what you want to be going on in your campaign, have you considered the alternate mechanic of Wealth Levels?
The idea is that the player pays an up front a lump sum ( 20 years worth of cost? 14,600 GP to live Comfortable in perpetuity? ) to buy a lifestyle, which represents some form of investment as an annuity which then pays for their lifestyle. The player then automatically maintains equipment and materials which fit into that Wealth Level. Same for services.
A character with a pre-purchased Moderate wealth level would automatically maintain a simple small home, their basic equipment, and be able to stay in rustic roadside inns, eat in basic taverns, etc. - without having to do any monetary bookkeeping. If they wanted to acquire goods & services outside their wealth level, now they need to come up with the cash.
If the party comes into a Dragon hoard, maybe they buy their way up to Comfortable or even Wealthy by paying the difference.
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Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
I'm not sure where I picked that up from, to be honest. It's definitely homebrew/non-canon - not in any of the books or supplements, AFAIK.
I would also probably give players at least a Poor lifestyle without requiring money from them on initial character build.
Open Legend has a similar system (worth a look as it's open source!) It's a set of rules by some blokes called Matt Mercer and Ed Greenwood - never heard of them, but I'm sure they must have some experience.
Personally, I run my campaigns in the Forgotten Realms and pretty much ignore most expenses - you'd have to pay me to do bookkeeping! (That was irony, folks!) But that's the style of the campaign.
In a grittier, darker campaign then I think if you have players that are making their characters live in poverty, then bouts of depression and apathy might be appropriate. If you need a mechanic for this, levels of exhaustion should work well. Just don't allow him to regain them by sleeping - depression doesn't work that way! People who put their lives on the line regularly tend to play hard. Fighting dragons all day then returning home to a hovel to knit jumpers is not really on and might make you wonder if it is all worth it. There are of course always exceptions - and it is the exceptions that we enjoy playing, but if he is living frugally just to be cheap....he deserves any consequences you see fit.
And if you had a +1 longsword, would you want to sleep in a subway tunnel?
This isn't to punish that player, it's just to make the game more realistic and try to add another level to lifestyle expenses.
If you don't want to punish the player, and just want increased realism, stay away from mechanical debuffs that wreck a character, unless they do what you want. This includes imposing things like exhaustion and disease. 0.02
Instead, look for opportunities in game, for the choices to have that material impact.
Character goes into a shop to sell a magic item. The shopkeeper, barely looking up from what he is doing, makes a big show of smelling the air, and makes a rather disgusted face, when you enter. As you hand over the item to be appraised, you note a greedy glint in his eyes. He offers you 200GP for the item. <the player protests> The shopkeeper threatens to call the guard on you. "you probably stole it anyway" he says. (the player has several options here, take the 200gp offer, attempt to intimidate the shopkeeper (bargaining likely will not work), attempt to take the item back, where the shop keeper summons the guard (3 more options here)... etc.
long story short, you should punish them with roleplay. D&D at it's core is about making decisions. If your player wishes to live in wretched squallor, I say let him, and double up on the wretched.
I have homebrewed some Avrae aliases that allow players to pay for lifestyle expenses in order to earn Downtime Days ( 'dt' ) which are then mechanically spent to use the Downtime Activities available in the book.
Players use the Server command once per real time week. Their dt resource is limited by real time. Higher cost lifestyles net more 'dt' as you pay for additional help and accommodations.
Wretched: Free, 1 dt
Squalid, 2dt
Poor, 3 dt
Modest, 4 dt
Comfortable, 5 dt
Wealthy, 6 dt
Aristocratic, 7 dt
Without even having a full running system or without players really knowing what to do with downtime, they tend to lean towards "Comfortable", "Wealthy", and sometimes even "Aristocratic" if they can afford it. Because you can only gain at max 7 days per week, it turns into a pretty valuable resource.
I have homebrewed some Avrae aliases that allow players to pay for lifestyle expenses in order to earn Downtime Days ( 'dt' ) which are then mechanically spent to use the Downtime Activities available in the book.
Players use the Server command once per real time week. Their dt resource is limited by real time. Higher cost lifestyles net more 'dt' as you pay for additional help and accommodations.
Wretched: Free, 1 dt
Squalid, 2dt
Poor, 3 dt
Modest, 4 dt
Comfortable, 5 dt
Wealthy, 6 dt
Aristocratic, 7 dt
Without even having a full running system or without players really knowing what to do with downtime, they tend to lean towards "Comfortable", "Wealthy", and sometimes even "Aristocratic" if they can afford it. Because you can only gain at max 7 days per week, it turns into a pretty valuable resource.
That is brilliant. That's one of those ideas I'm almost angry I didn't come up with myself.
Really enjoying this discussion on lifestyle expenses and making D&D sessions feel even more immersive! While thinking of creative ways to incorporate realistic touches, I came across Smokey Cloudz – it’s a vape store but got me wondering if anyone here has thought about adding flavor and aroma elements to their tabletop sessions. Curious if anyone’s tried this to enhance the gaming atmosphere!
I am starting a campaign that uses downtime and lifestyle expenses, but doesn't 100% adhere to AL rules. However, I want to make the lifestyle expenses do more then just decide how much you pay per day, because I have a player who I know will just choose wretched just so he doesn't have to pay anything ever. This isn't to punish that player, it's just to make the game more realistic and try to add another level to lifestyle expenses. The PHB gives a little info on this, but I was wanting something a little more mechanical and set in stone. I was wondering if anyone had done this or has ideas?
Off of the top of my head I think disadvantage to poison and disease checks if you live wretched, along with automatically failing any charisma check made against a character living the modest or above lifestyle.
For Wealthy and Aristocratic I was thinking something along the lines of being targeted by robbers/burglars (don't know the legal difference).
Any ideas?
Published Subclasses
I wouldn't give the player disadvantages to poison or disease checks if they lived wretchedly, but I would make them make a periodic saving throw or contract a disease.
If you're making Lifestyle part of your campaign then I might also explore giving bonuses/penalties to social skill rolls ( Persuasion, Intimidation, etc. ) based on the difference between the character and the target. Your player-character is an Aristocrat, and they're trying to bluster past a town guard who is leading a modest life style? They may get +3 to Intimidate. It might work the other way as well, as the Artistocrat is scared of this "desperate squalid ruffian" who is trying to rob him.
You'd have to rule on that on a case-by-case basis.
I have to ask what your intent is to enforce daily lifestyle costs? I'm not criticizing, I'm just curious as to what you want the results to be?
If it fits what you want to be going on in your campaign, have you considered the alternate mechanic of Wealth Levels?
The idea is that the player pays an up front a lump sum ( 20 years worth of cost? 14,600 GP to live Comfortable in perpetuity? ) to buy a lifestyle, which represents some form of investment as an annuity which then pays for their lifestyle. The player then automatically maintains equipment and materials which fit into that Wealth Level. Same for services.
A character with a pre-purchased Moderate wealth level would automatically maintain a simple small home, their basic equipment, and be able to stay in rustic roadside inns, eat in basic taverns, etc. - without having to do any monetary bookkeeping. If they wanted to acquire goods & services outside their wealth level, now they need to come up with the cash.
If the party comes into a Dragon hoard, maybe they buy their way up to Comfortable or even Wealthy by paying the difference.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
I liked the original post, I love the reply. Was this system in the DMG? I don't recall ever seeing it.
I'm not sure where I picked that up from, to be honest. It's definitely homebrew/non-canon - not in any of the books or supplements, AFAIK.
I would also probably give players at least a Poor lifestyle without requiring money from them on initial character build.
My DM Philosophy, as summed up by other people: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rN5w4-azTq3Kbn0Yvk9nfqQhwQ1R5by1/view
Disclaimer: This signature is a badge of membership in the Forum Loudmouth Club. We are all friends. We are not attacking each other. We are engaging in spirited, friendly debate with one another. We may get snarky, but these are not attacks. Thank you for not reporting us.
Open Legend has a similar system (worth a look as it's open source!)
It's a set of rules by some blokes called Matt Mercer and Ed Greenwood - never heard of them, but I'm sure they must have some experience.
Personally, I run my campaigns in the Forgotten Realms and pretty much ignore most expenses - you'd have to pay me to do bookkeeping! (That was irony, folks!) But that's the style of the campaign.
In a grittier, darker campaign then I think if you have players that are making their characters live in poverty, then bouts of depression and apathy might be appropriate. If you need a mechanic for this, levels of exhaustion should work well. Just don't allow him to regain them by sleeping - depression doesn't work that way!
People who put their lives on the line regularly tend to play hard. Fighting dragons all day then returning home to a hovel to knit jumpers is not really on and might make you wonder if it is all worth it.
There are of course always exceptions - and it is the exceptions that we enjoy playing, but if he is living frugally just to be cheap....he deserves any consequences you see fit.
And if you had a +1 longsword, would you want to sleep in a subway tunnel?
Roleplaying since Runequest.
If you don't want to punish the player, and just want increased realism, stay away from mechanical debuffs that wreck a character, unless they do what you want. This includes imposing things like exhaustion and disease. 0.02
Instead, look for opportunities in game, for the choices to have that material impact.
Character goes into a shop to sell a magic item. The shopkeeper, barely looking up from what he is doing, makes a big show of smelling the air, and makes a rather disgusted face, when you enter. As you hand over the item to be appraised, you note a greedy glint in his eyes. He offers you 200GP for the item. <the player protests> The shopkeeper threatens to call the guard on you. "you probably stole it anyway" he says. (the player has several options here, take the 200gp offer, attempt to intimidate the shopkeeper (bargaining likely will not work), attempt to take the item back, where the shop keeper summons the guard (3 more options here)... etc.
long story short, you should punish them with roleplay. D&D at it's core is about making decisions. If your player wishes to live in wretched squallor, I say let him, and double up on the wretched.
I have homebrewed some Avrae aliases that allow players to pay for lifestyle expenses in order to earn Downtime Days ( 'dt' ) which are then mechanically spent to use the Downtime Activities available in the book.
Players use the Server command once per real time week. Their dt resource is limited by real time.
Higher cost lifestyles net more 'dt' as you pay for additional help and accommodations.
Without even having a full running system or without players really knowing what to do with downtime, they tend to lean towards "Comfortable", "Wealthy", and sometimes even "Aristocratic" if they can afford it. Because you can only gain at max 7 days per week, it turns into a pretty valuable resource.
That is brilliant. That's one of those ideas I'm almost angry I didn't come up with myself.
Really enjoying this discussion on lifestyle expenses and making D&D sessions feel even more immersive! While thinking of creative ways to incorporate realistic touches, I came across Smokey Cloudz – it’s a vape store but got me wondering if anyone here has thought about adding flavor and aroma elements to their tabletop sessions. Curious if anyone’s tried this to enhance the gaming atmosphere!