Wondering if anyone has run into a quandary I found while building some encounters for an upcoming session. In my homebrew, I have 5 PC's, currently @ LVL 5. The encounters I have built thus far have been seemingly a little easy for the party. Not really an issue as I want the party to have fun and not be overwhelmed with fighting at this point. The upcoming encounters that I have planned are going to be a little tougher but should still be able to be handled by the party.
However, I have found that building the encounters via different means, (DDB encounter builder, KFC, Excel, donjon) DDB and KFC are showing different difficulty levels. Has anyone run into this before? Monsters in the encounter are the same and player level/count are the same as well.
TL:DR - D&D Beyond encounter builder showing encounter I built as "Hard" yet Kobold Fight Club shows the same encounter as "Medium". What gives?
Figuring out how much danger a party can handle can be tricky. Different systems will show different results, plus - every party is different, so what's easy for a group of armor-clad fighters might be deadly for a team of rogues and sorcerers. But there is One Simple Trick to finding that sweet spot between thrilling and dead....
So, basically... not every fight will be "the entire party" entering melee with "the entire enemy" and letting attrition of hit points decide who wins. Many monsters will want to test the waters, and see what you are capable of first. Why put your entire back row at risk when you can risk just a few pawns? So when the party enters combat against an enemy, that may not be the entire enemy team. That may just be the advance scouts. The players may hack down those scouts easily, only to find the bulk of the fight is still ahead of them.
As a player, there is nothing more terrifying and demoralizing than doing really really well in a fight against a powerful enemy, like a devil or a beholder, and just as you think you've got the fight won, the DM says that the enemy opens a portal and summons more help to their side.
From a game mechanics standpoint: as a DM you design a certain encounter. Maybe it's a group of hobgoblins that ambush the party in a forest. Let the combat play out for a round or two. If it's a tough fight, fine. But if you find that the party is winning the fight really easily, then maybe in round three one of the characters gets backstabbed by the hobgoblin assassin who had been hiding this whole time waiting for the perfect moment to strike.
Players know what their characters are capable of. Players know what their party's resources are and what they can handle in a toe-to-toe fight. So when combat begins, each player will (maybe subconsciously) assess the threat and compare it to the party's resources (hit points, spell slots, etc). However - if the parameters of the fight change during combat it can really strike fear into the players, because they have trouble reassessing their position.
Getting ambushed by three goblins on the road is no challenge at all. The players might even have some fun and Fireball them just because it's funny. But! Then the arrows start sailing in from the trees and the party suddenly realizes that the goblins were patsies and the archers in the trees are the real ambush. Now they're facing a bigger foe, and they've just used their most powerful spell.
So... basically... don't feel the need to hit the party with the entire group of enemies all at once. test them, toss in a few more bad guys, keep testing the party, when the first party member drops to zero hit points and you start to see the look of real concern in the players' eyes - THAT is when you know you've found the sweet spot!
Also - there's a cool website called http://themonstersknow.com/ which explains the tactics and strategies commonly used by specific monsters, so you'll be able to make each encounter a bit more personalized for that monster type.
Just my two cents. Have fun!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tayn of Darkwood. Lvl 10 human Life Cleric of Lathander. Retired.
Ikram Sahir ibn Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad, Second Son of the House of Ra'ad, Defender of the Burning Sands. Lvl 9 Brass Dragonborn Sorcerer + Greater Fire Elemental Devil.
Viktor Gavriil. Lvl 20 White Dragonborn Grave Cleric, of Kurgan the God of Death.
I would not put to much faith in those encounter ratings. they do not know the extend of your parties abilities. the only one who knows them are you.
as you let your party fight encounters you will get a grasp of how powerful they are. it also depends on your characters.
in my last session i found that when my party where up against 2 creatures of a higher CR they completely demolished the enemies. yet however in the one afterwards when they were against 6 monsters of way weaker level they almost all died.
when i reviewed my encounter i found out that it was because my party was mainly a very tanky party and the 2 attacks the the stronger creatures had would barely mange to hit. yet the 6-7 attacks the smaller ones did found their mark
i would suggest taking into consideration. your parties strength and weakness AC, spell DC when building encounters. plus you can always build an encounter and have backup monsters waiting around the corner to join the fight. and add them if it seems the party is having an easy time
I feel like there was a conversation in one of the dev updates that the encounter builder used the behind the scenes Wizards calculation instead of the DMG calculation (I assume their math was simplified when it was given out to players). anyone else remember that, or did I dream it up?
@OP: To answer your question, DnD Beyond has a close collaboration with Wizards of the Coast (WotC) and their encounter builder is using the math provided to them by WotC. The other 3rd party websites are probably using the rules as outlined in the source books, which are simplified for the general public.
So you're going to ask me WHY? Well, DnD Beyond use the proprietary math from WotC so they will be able to implement HOMEBREW creatures and calculate difficulty based on the homebrew creature's abilities, armor class, HP, attack ratings, etc... instead of depending on the homebrew creator properly assigning a correct CR rating.
Hello fellow DM's,
Wondering if anyone has run into a quandary I found while building some encounters for an upcoming session. In my homebrew, I have 5 PC's, currently @ LVL 5. The encounters I have built thus far have been seemingly a little easy for the party. Not really an issue as I want the party to have fun and not be overwhelmed with fighting at this point. The upcoming encounters that I have planned are going to be a little tougher but should still be able to be handled by the party.
However, I have found that building the encounters via different means, (DDB encounter builder, KFC, Excel, donjon) DDB and KFC are showing different difficulty levels. Has anyone run into this before? Monsters in the encounter are the same and player level/count are the same as well.
TL:DR - D&D Beyond encounter builder showing encounter I built as "Hard" yet Kobold Fight Club shows the same encounter as "Medium". What gives?
Figuring out how much danger a party can handle can be tricky. Different systems will show different results, plus - every party is different, so what's easy for a group of armor-clad fighters might be deadly for a team of rogues and sorcerers. But there is One Simple Trick to finding that sweet spot between thrilling and dead....
So, basically... not every fight will be "the entire party" entering melee with "the entire enemy" and letting attrition of hit points decide who wins. Many monsters will want to test the waters, and see what you are capable of first. Why put your entire back row at risk when you can risk just a few pawns? So when the party enters combat against an enemy, that may not be the entire enemy team. That may just be the advance scouts. The players may hack down those scouts easily, only to find the bulk of the fight is still ahead of them.
As a player, there is nothing more terrifying and demoralizing than doing really really well in a fight against a powerful enemy, like a devil or a beholder, and just as you think you've got the fight won, the DM says that the enemy opens a portal and summons more help to their side.
From a game mechanics standpoint: as a DM you design a certain encounter. Maybe it's a group of hobgoblins that ambush the party in a forest. Let the combat play out for a round or two. If it's a tough fight, fine. But if you find that the party is winning the fight really easily, then maybe in round three one of the characters gets backstabbed by the hobgoblin assassin who had been hiding this whole time waiting for the perfect moment to strike.
Players know what their characters are capable of. Players know what their party's resources are and what they can handle in a toe-to-toe fight. So when combat begins, each player will (maybe subconsciously) assess the threat and compare it to the party's resources (hit points, spell slots, etc). However - if the parameters of the fight change during combat it can really strike fear into the players, because they have trouble reassessing their position.
Getting ambushed by three goblins on the road is no challenge at all. The players might even have some fun and Fireball them just because it's funny. But! Then the arrows start sailing in from the trees and the party suddenly realizes that the goblins were patsies and the archers in the trees are the real ambush. Now they're facing a bigger foe, and they've just used their most powerful spell.
So... basically... don't feel the need to hit the party with the entire group of enemies all at once. test them, toss in a few more bad guys, keep testing the party, when the first party member drops to zero hit points and you start to see the look of real concern in the players' eyes - THAT is when you know you've found the sweet spot!
Also - there's a cool website called http://themonstersknow.com/ which explains the tactics and strategies commonly used by specific monsters, so you'll be able to make each encounter a bit more personalized for that monster type.
Just my two cents. Have fun!
Tayn of Darkwood. Lvl 10 human Life Cleric of Lathander. Retired.
Ikram Sahir ibn Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad, Second Son of the House of Ra'ad, Defender of the Burning Sands. Lvl 9 Brass Dragonborn Sorcerer + Greater Fire Elemental Devil.
Viktor Gavriil. Lvl 20 White Dragonborn Grave Cleric, of Kurgan the God of Death.
Anzio Faro. Lvl 5 Prot. Aasimar Light Cleric.
Hello Fatman.
I would not put to much faith in those encounter ratings. they do not know the extend of your parties abilities. the only one who knows them are you.
as you let your party fight encounters you will get a grasp of how powerful they are. it also depends on your characters.
in my last session i found that when my party where up against 2 creatures of a higher CR they completely demolished the enemies. yet however in the one afterwards when they were against 6 monsters of way weaker level they almost all died.
when i reviewed my encounter i found out that it was because my party was mainly a very tanky party and the 2 attacks the the stronger creatures had would barely mange to hit. yet the 6-7 attacks the smaller ones did found their mark
i would suggest taking into consideration. your parties strength and weakness AC, spell DC when building encounters.
plus you can always build an encounter and have backup monsters waiting around the corner to join the fight. and add them if it seems the party is having an easy time
I feel like there was a conversation in one of the dev updates that the encounter builder used the behind the scenes Wizards calculation instead of the DMG calculation (I assume their math was simplified when it was given out to players). anyone else remember that, or did I dream it up?
@OP: To answer your question, DnD Beyond has a close collaboration with Wizards of the Coast (WotC) and their encounter builder is using the math provided to them by WotC. The other 3rd party websites are probably using the rules as outlined in the source books, which are simplified for the general public.
So you're going to ask me WHY? Well, DnD Beyond use the proprietary math from WotC so they will be able to implement HOMEBREW creatures and calculate difficulty based on the homebrew creature's abilities, armor class, HP, attack ratings, etc... instead of depending on the homebrew creator properly assigning a correct CR rating.