Vile damage came from an earlier edition of the rules, and was damage so unspeakably evil that the only way to heal it with magic was to do so while in the area of effect of a consecrate, hallow, or similar spell effect.
Now, adding a completely new damage source isn't really something 5th edition needs right now, but the theme is certainly appropriate. So, this update:
Vile damage: This necrotic damage is so unspeakably evil that it can only be healed while in the area of effect of a consecrate, hallow, or similar spell effect.
Vile spell (Metamagic): Whenever you cast a spell, you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell's level to change the spell's damage from the normal damage type to half-normal, half-vile. Thus, a fireball doing 27 points of fire damage would cost three sorcery points to turn into a vilefireball, doing 14 points of fire damage and 13 points of vile damage.
Vile enhancement (Feat): When you gain this feat, choose one of the following damage types: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder. Spells you cast with the chosen damage types can instead do half the chosen damage type, and half vile damage. You can select this feat multi pIe times. Each time you do so, you must choose a different damage type.
Lifequencher (Invocation) [Prerequisite: 15th level, Lifedrinker invocation]: When you hit a creature with your pact weapon, the creature takes extra vile damage equal to your Charisma modifier +1 (minimum 1).
This makes resistance / immunity to necrotic damage a more valuable tool in the game, since anything that works on / against necrotic damage also does so for vile damage.
It also enhances the value of having a PC who can cast consecrate, hallow, or similar spell effect in the party.
Additionally, it gives a DM a chance to make all kinds of custom spells. Just increase the spell slot necessary to cast it by 1, rename it, and treat it as a vile spell. So Halaku's Hateful Havoc would be a vilefireball that takes a 4th level spot to inscribe in a spellbook and to cast, and is otherwise treated as a 3rd level spell.
It can also cause significant moral dilemmas for player characters. How does their chosen religion feel about vile damage? What about other religions? How do they feel about fellow party members causing vile damage? If they recovered a spell scroll of Halaku's Hateful Havoc, would they try and sell it at a premium to an unscrupulous wizard, or destroy it? Would they be prepared to fight off anyone who wants to take it off their steaming corpse?
Thoughts?
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So necrotic = vile?...I don't understand I feel if you want this effect just change the name of necrotic to vile in your players core rule book.
It's for players of previous editions, who recognize it from the Book of Vile Darkness supplement. In it, Vile was it's own damage type that was exceedingly hard to magically heal. Since that's an extra level of complexity (something 5E tries to avoid) my homebrew is to make it a version of necrotic that is exceedingly hard to magically heal. Ordinary necrotic damage is unaffected.
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But why instead of adding another mechanic called vile don't you just supplement necrotic damage. It would be a lot easier just say necrotic damage does this effect as well as this.
But why instead of adding another mechanic called vile don't you just supplement necrotic damage. It would be a lot easier just say necrotic damage does this effect as well as this.
The problem with this is that it would hurt game balance. Spells that dealt necrotic damage would all of a sudden become more dangerous than any other kind of magic, as well as any other effects that dealt that kind of damage (can't think of any off the top of my head, sorry). Vile damage is supposed to be terrifying, but also exceedingly rare. If necrotic damage in general had the same effect, imagine how that would be abused, by both players and DM.
Personally, I like what Halaku has done with the concept. My only complaint is, looking back at the Book of Vile Darkness, very little vile damage is dealt by any attack. The old Vile feats only allowed one point of vile damage to be dealt with an attack, though during the course of a combat, that would stack up. In a game where massive amounts of Vile damage are dealt at a time, it becomes harder to survive, especially if fighting a powerful monster who can deal vile damage. Maybe changing the options to deal 1d4 extra vile damage or something might be more balanced.
EDIT: Just took a second look at the Book of Vile Darkness. Apparently, there are some feats that changes half the damage to vile. But still, I would be careful with how much vile damage can be dealt in a single attack.
Vile spell (Metamagic): Whenever you cast a spell, you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell's level to change the spell's damage from the normal damage type to half-normal, half-vile. Thus, a fireball doing 27 points of fire damage would cost three sorcery points to turn into a vilefireball, doing 14 points of fire damage and 13 points of vile damage.
Vile enhancement (Feat): When you gain this feat, choose one of the following damage types: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder. Spells you cast with the chosen damage types can instead do half the chosen damage type, and half vile damage. You can select this feat multipIe times. Each time you do so, you must choose a different damage type.
The feat seems much better than the spell. The feat doesn't require use of sorcery points, though it is limited to one damage type. The metamagic offers versatility in damage types, but you'll burn through sorcery points very quickly. The feat would save you both a metamagic slot and sorcery points.
I can't offer any advice on how to make them more equal, though. Perhaps do half spell level rounded down/up?
But why instead of adding another mechanic called vile don't you just supplement necrotic damage. It would be a lot easier just say necrotic damage does this effect as well as this.
That would make necrotic damage superior to all other forms of damage.
Which isn't healthy for the game... unless you're running a Ravenloftesque or horror-themed game. Which has possibilities...
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Vile spell (Metamagic): Whenever you cast a spell, you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell's level to change the spell's damage from the normal damage type to half-normal, half-vile. Thus, a fireball doing 27 points of fire damage would cost three sorcery points to turn into a vilefireball, doing 14 points of fire damage and 13 points of vile damage.
Vile enhancement (Feat): When you gain this feat, choose one of the following damage types: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder. Spells you cast with the chosen damage types can instead do half the chosen damage type, and half vile damage. You can select this feat multipIe times. Each time you do so, you must choose a different damage type.
The feat seems much better than the spell. The feat doesn't require use of sorcery points, though it is limited to one damage type. The metamagic offers versatility in damage types, but you'll burn through sorcery points very quickly. The feat would save you both a metamagic slot and sorcery points.
I can't offer any advice on how to make them more equal, though. Perhaps do half spell level rounded down/up?
Well, the feat only works on the five classic elemental damage types. The metamagic works on all of them. Vilemagic missile, anyone?
The feat's also available to all spellcasters, with the metamagic being a Sorcerer-only addition, so it's completely optional.
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Vile damage came from an earlier edition of the rules, and was damage so unspeakably evil that the only way to heal it with magic was to do so while in the area of effect of a consecrate, hallow, or similar spell effect.
Now, adding a completely new damage source isn't really something 5th edition needs right now, but the theme is certainly appropriate. So, this update:
Vile damage: This necrotic damage is so unspeakably evil that it can only be healed while in the area of effect of a consecrate, hallow, or similar spell effect.
Vile spell (Metamagic): Whenever you cast a spell, you can spend a number of sorcery points equal to the spell's level to change the spell's damage from the normal damage type to half-normal, half-vile. Thus, a fireball doing 27 points of fire damage would cost three sorcery points to turn into a vile fireball, doing 14 points of fire damage and 13 points of vile damage.
Vile enhancement (Feat): When you gain this feat, choose one of the following damage types: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder. Spells you cast with the chosen damage types can instead do half the chosen damage type, and half vile damage. You can select this feat multi pIe times. Each time you do so, you must choose a different damage type.
Lifequencher (Invocation) [Prerequisite: 15th level, Lifedrinker invocation]: When you hit a creature with your pact weapon, the creature takes extra vile damage equal to your Charisma modifier +1 (minimum 1).
This makes resistance / immunity to necrotic damage a more valuable tool in the game, since anything that works on / against necrotic damage also does so for vile damage.
It also enhances the value of having a PC who can cast consecrate, hallow, or similar spell effect in the party.
Additionally, it gives a DM a chance to make all kinds of custom spells. Just increase the spell slot necessary to cast it by 1, rename it, and treat it as a vile spell. So Halaku's Hateful Havoc would be a vile fireball that takes a 4th level spot to inscribe in a spellbook and to cast, and is otherwise treated as a 3rd level spell.
It can also cause significant moral dilemmas for player characters. How does their chosen religion feel about vile damage? What about other religions? How do they feel about fellow party members causing vile damage? If they recovered a spell scroll of Halaku's Hateful Havoc, would they try and sell it at a premium to an unscrupulous wizard, or destroy it? Would they be prepared to fight off anyone who wants to take it off their steaming corpse?
Thoughts?
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So necrotic = vile?...I don't understand I feel if you want this effect just change the name of necrotic to vile in your players core rule book.
⬐ If you thought I added value to the conversation, please let me know!
But why instead of adding another mechanic called vile don't you just supplement necrotic damage. It would be a lot easier just say necrotic damage does this effect as well as this.
Personally, I like what Halaku has done with the concept. My only complaint is, looking back at the Book of Vile Darkness, very little vile damage is dealt by any attack. The old Vile feats only allowed one point of vile damage to be dealt with an attack, though during the course of a combat, that would stack up. In a game where massive amounts of Vile damage are dealt at a time, it becomes harder to survive, especially if fighting a powerful monster who can deal vile damage. Maybe changing the options to deal 1d4 extra vile damage or something might be more balanced.
EDIT: Just took a second look at the Book of Vile Darkness. Apparently, there are some feats that changes half the damage to vile. But still, I would be careful with how much vile damage can be dealt in a single attack.
The feat seems much better than the spell. The feat doesn't require use of sorcery points, though it is limited to one damage type. The metamagic offers versatility in damage types, but you'll burn through sorcery points very quickly. The feat would save you both a metamagic slot and sorcery points.
I can't offer any advice on how to make them more equal, though. Perhaps do half spell level rounded down/up?
Which isn't healthy for the game... unless you're running a Ravenloftesque or horror-themed game. Which has possibilities...
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