If you don't want darkness to ever be an issue at your table, just stick dim light everywhere.
I don't want darkness to be an issue for some characters; the difference between having darkvision and not is just too large.
Depends on the campaign and the DM. I usually do something at 1st or 2nd level to remind players to maintain a source of light for the humies. Then I ignore the rule unless it counts for combat. ie disadvantage/advantage. Otherwise it kills the game flow.
Then your options are to remove darkness everywhere or give everyone darkvision. Either way, do it at your table.
No, removing darkvision (replace with low-light vision) also solves the problem. It also solves a lot of other problems, because to be blunt, darkvision is a supernatural ability, no natural creature should have it. It is also far too powerful for what it costs to obtain.
Then your options are to remove darkness everywhere or give everyone darkvision. Either way, do it at your table.
No, removing darkvision (replace with low-light vision) also solves the problem. It also solves a lot of other problems, because to be blunt, darkvision is a supernatural ability, no natural creature should have it. It is also far too powerful for what it costs to obtain.
That sounds like a dandy houserule for your table, but I'll be sticking with darkvision, thanks.
Then your options are to remove darkness everywhere or give everyone darkvision. Either way, do it at your table.
No, removing darkvision (replace with low-light vision) also solves the problem. It also solves a lot of other problems, because to be blunt, darkvision is a supernatural ability, no natural creature should have it. It is also far too powerful for what it costs to obtain.
Ok a couple of things.
Each Species Trait is actually a feat, feats are the same as level 1 or 2 spells.
Using Humans a Baseline:
Human Traits
Creature Type: Humanoid Size: Medium (about 4–7 feet tall) or Small (about 2–4 feet tall), chosen when you select this species Speed: 30 feet
You are part of a lineage that grants you supernatural abilities. Choose a lineage from the Elven Lineages table. You gain the level 1 benefit of that lineage.
When you reach character levels 3 and 5, you learn a higher-level spell, as shown on the table. You always have that spell prepared. You can cast it once without a spell slot, and you regain the ability to cast it in that way when you finish a Long Rest. You can also cast the spell using any spell slots you have of the appropriate level.
Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma is your spellcasting ability for the spells you cast with this trait (choose the ability when you select the lineage).
You know the Prestidigitation cantrip. Whenever you finish a Long Rest, you can replace that cantrip with a different cantrip from the Wizard spell list.
You don’t need to sleep, and magic can’t put you to sleep. You can finish a Long Rest in 4 hours if you spend those hours in a trancelike meditation, during which you retain consciousness.
We can see how these species compare in power.
Elves get Darkvision (equal to a Second level spell https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/2619082-darkvision ), A cantrip with a bonus minor feat, the equivalent of a second feat, some skills with flavor text, and the ability to take a shorter long rest which doesn't add any mechanical advantage.
Humans get Heroic Inspiration when they finish a long rest (That is advantage when they need it.) one skill of your choice, and one extra origin feat (which is the equivalent of 2 cantrips and a level 1 spell. as you can always take Magic Initiative as it has Repeatable. You can take this feat more than once, but you must choose a different spell list each time.)
Making Humans the strongest species magically speaking, as you can start level 1 with 4 extra cantrips, and two level 1 spells.
The funny thing is, darkvision is such a weak spell, and so easily delt with by other means even if I'm playing a human wizard I wouldn't take the spell unless I got it as a scroll.
Then your options are to remove darkness everywhere or give everyone darkvision. Either way, do it at your table.
No, removing darkvision (replace with low-light vision) also solves the problem. It also solves a lot of other problems, because to be blunt, darkvision is a supernatural ability, no natural creature should have it. It is also far too powerful for what it costs to obtain.
Whereas innate knowledge of tools, significant resistant to damage from sources such as holy fire or flesh-withering energy, and outright spellcasting are so obviously a part of the spectrum of natural characteristics.
Whereas innate knowledge of tools, significant resistant to damage from sources such as holy fire or flesh-withering energy, and outright spellcasting are so obviously a part of the spectrum of natural characteristics.
I don't have a realism problem with species that don't exist in the world having darkvision; I have no idea what's realistic for a dwarf. I do have a problem with beasts having darkvision... which they only have because low-light vision doesn't exist in the 5e rules.
I don't have a problem with darkness nor darkvision. If everybody has it, everybody has it, if nobody has it, nobody has it. If some of the party have darkvision and other don't, no problem.
As soon as an area of darkness if encountered, the party works out their solution for it and unless they say otherwise, that is how the default setting for their travel/exploration will be.
I have to note that I have never had a party in which everybody had darkvision. So there is always somebody with a torch, lantern or light spell somesuch. No big deal.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
I didn't miss echo location - i left it out on purpose as it's a whole other can of worms. Now to the constant refrain of "its fantasy, physics doesn't apply" - in 2 letters: BS! if it were all fantasy and medieval suppositions based it wouldn't work. the reality is that almost everything in the game is, in fact, reality/physics based with just a few things not quite working that you have to suspend your disbelief for - mostly magic related. if you want to explain it all as rays of light/energy beaming out of folk's eyes and then bouncing back have fun in your game. anyone of any era that has actually experienced total darkness recognize that no rays came from your eyes. Like the stories that everyone believed the world was flat back then its a myth generated by moderns to make the modern's achievements look bigger than they are. yes some folks believed that back then - but then there are ignorant folks that still believe the world is flat too. 1-3e actually described infravision and ultravision as I described - not as rays of some sort beaming out and returning.
I didn't miss echo location - i left it out on purpose as it's a whole other can of worms. Now to the constant refrain of "its fantasy, physics doesn't apply" - in 2 letters: BS! if it were all fantasy and medieval suppositions based it wouldn't work. the reality is that almost everything in the game is, in fact, reality/physics based with just a few things not quite working that you have to suspend your disbelief for - mostly magic related. if you want to explain it all as rays of light/energy beaming out of folk's eyes and then bouncing back have fun in your game. anyone of any era that has actually experienced total darkness recognize that no rays came from your eyes. Like the stories that everyone believed the world was flat back then its a myth generated by moderns to make the modern's achievements look bigger than they are. yes some folks believed that back then - but then there are ignorant folks that still believe the world is flat too. 1-3e actually described infravision and ultravision as I described - not as rays of some sort beaming out and returning.
Well you bring up some interesting points, but my case still stands, as the og writers of D&D were adding mythology without knowing mythology and so when they didn't understand the myth they made up some BS using a high school level of science understanding making some of the earliest material sound extra special dumb.
Medusa in mythology is a member of the Gorgon sisters.
Gorgon in D&D is a Bull monster.
As I pointed out with the eye bean belief that filled the majority of human history and wasn't shown to be false until an Islamic scientist a thousand years ago invented the pin hole camera (sort of), and wasn't accepted by the majority of educated people until the end of the 18th century.
Their descriptions read the same as eye beams, but with added techno babble based on a 3rd grade science book.
Also you clearly haven't read any of the Spelljammer books to fail to see what I was pointing out. Esp the 1st and 2nd ed era Spelljammer books. But hey the writers of 5th ed made it worse by turning Toril which was a globe like the Earth into a flat plane. Hopefully that bit of art gets forgotten.
And yes Echo location would be a whole can of worms, which was why I made the joke.
Look up the Phlogiston and Crystal spheres. And for fun look up the gravity and air rules in spell jammer.
edit including a classic monster based on eye beam mythology.
Darkness is both a story and a combat tool. Making it irrelevant is a massive blunder that DND has kept making, over and over and over again.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Darkness is both a story and a combat tool. Making it irrelevant is a massive blunder that DND has kept making, over and over and over again.
I am a big fan of (a) how ShadowDark has eliminated darkvision altogether, (b) how the treatment of darkness in a game product like Veins of the Earth makes it palpable and actually something worthy of dread, and (c) how Torchbearer and other games have made tools and resources mean something again.
That said I don't dislike the inclusion of species capable of darkvision as much as I do the inclusion of those capable of flight.
As Professor Dungeon Master recently pointed out it just gives characters an advantage that allows them to bypass entire challenges. It becomes less about player skill and more about a single choice a player made during character creation:
"How ever are we going to reach that artifact chained to the ceiling? We are going to have use our wits to figure out a way ..."
Darkness is both a story and a combat tool. Making it irrelevant is a massive blunder that DND has kept making, over and over and over again.
Except it's not irrelevant, except in the hands of DMs that gloss over the relevant rules, and in so doing make darkvision more powerful than it's intended to be.
That said I don't dislike the inclusion of species capable of darkvision as much as I do the inclusion of those capable of flight.
The construction of the rules mean that eventually, every character needs a means of flight - forcing 3d battlefields, making most terrain irrelevant, and so on. I have similar views on teleportation, making all encounters optional, and all straight up removing all travel.
Which is why those things aren't in my games.
In trying to make the game more magical, they make it less so. It's not that I don't understand the idea that .. when you can summon creatures from beyond mortal ken, and hurl exploding balls of fire, and so on, why is it you cannot fly, or teleport, or see in the dark. Well, it's for story reasons - and for a kind of relatability: We recognize ourselves in our characters, in their human limitations. Sure, the power fantasy doesn't stop there, but the story telling kinda does.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
The construction of the rules mean that eventually, every character needs a means of flight - forcing 3d battlefields, making most terrain irrelevant, and so on. I have similar views on teleportation, making all encounters optional, and all straight up removing all travel.
Which is why those things aren't in my games.
In trying to make the game more magical, they make it less so. It's not that I don't understand the idea that .. when you can summon creatures from beyond mortal ken, and hurl exploding balls of fire, and so on, why is it you cannot fly, or teleport, or see in the dark. Well, it's for story reasons - and for a kind of relatability: We recognize ourselves in our characters, in their human limitations. Sure, the power fantasy doesn't stop there, but the story telling kinda does.
I hear you. As Professor Dungeon Master just recently pointed out not even the most powerful wizard in Middle-Earth could fly. Like you said. Less is more.
Except it's not irrelevant, except in the hands of DMs that gloss over the relevant rules, and in so doing make darkvision more powerful than it's intended to be.
How often do players in your games require the use of torches or other sources of light? How often is darkness an impediment? Does its presence ever pose a challenge? Is it ever a source of dread?
For we DMs who like a dose of horror with our fantasy darkvision is a nuisance.
Being unable to see or Blinded is very crippling as it heavily impact the way you attack and prevent effects targeting what you can see, all those who can in turn see you have advantage to attack you etc..
As soon as one party member doesn't have Darkvision usually a light source is used. And even when all do, light is sometimes still used to avoid traveling in a Lightly Obscured area with disadvantage Disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks, especially during exploration.
In combat, far range is rarely used except for large scale battle, so most of the time more close combat means you deal with everyone seeing, wether in darkness or bright/dim light.
I ran an adventure a little while back that removed natural Darkvision from PCs, and my conclusion was that Darkvision isn't really the problem; the Vision & Light rules are the problem. These rules just don't do very much: the Light Obscurement from Dim Light does functionally nothing in combat, and because of the way most people interpret Heavy Obscurement, it's impossible to effectively use an area of Darkness as cover, because somehow standing in it blinds you, too. And that's leaving aside the ubiquity of the Light cantrip, which trivializes the whole matter. I expected to be able to create some interesting tactical scenarios with the Vision & Light rules after removing Darkvision, but it turns out there's just not enough meat on those bones to do anything with.
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Depends on the campaign and the DM. I usually do something at 1st or 2nd level to remind players to maintain a source of light for the humies. Then I ignore the rule unless it counts for combat. ie disadvantage/advantage. Otherwise it kills the game flow.
Then your options are to remove darkness everywhere or give everyone darkvision. Either way, do it at your table.
No, removing darkvision (replace with low-light vision) also solves the problem. It also solves a lot of other problems, because to be blunt, darkvision is a supernatural ability, no natural creature should have it. It is also far too powerful for what it costs to obtain.
That sounds like a dandy houserule for your table, but I'll be sticking with darkvision, thanks.
Ok a couple of things.
Each Species Trait is actually a feat, feats are the same as level 1 or 2 spells.
Using Humans a Baseline:
Now we take the Elves for the maximum spell power.
We can see how these species compare in power.
Elves get Darkvision (equal to a Second level spell https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/2619082-darkvision ), A cantrip with a bonus minor feat, the equivalent of a second feat, some skills with flavor text, and the ability to take a shorter long rest which doesn't add any mechanical advantage.
Humans get Heroic Inspiration when they finish a long rest (That is advantage when they need it.) one skill of your choice, and one extra origin feat (which is the equivalent of 2 cantrips and a level 1 spell. as you can always take Magic Initiative as it has Repeatable. You can take this feat more than once, but you must choose a different spell list each time.)
Making Humans the strongest species magically speaking, as you can start level 1 with 4 extra cantrips, and two level 1 spells.
The funny thing is, darkvision is such a weak spell, and so easily delt with by other means even if I'm playing a human wizard I wouldn't take the spell unless I got it as a scroll.
Whereas innate knowledge of tools, significant resistant to damage from sources such as holy fire or flesh-withering energy, and outright spellcasting are so obviously a part of the spectrum of natural characteristics.
I don't have a realism problem with species that don't exist in the world having darkvision; I have no idea what's realistic for a dwarf. I do have a problem with beasts having darkvision... which they only have because low-light vision doesn't exist in the 5e rules.
I don't have a problem with darkness nor darkvision. If everybody has it, everybody has it, if nobody has it, nobody has it. If some of the party have darkvision and other don't, no problem.
As soon as an area of darkness if encountered, the party works out their solution for it and unless they say otherwise, that is how the default setting for their travel/exploration will be.
I have to note that I have never had a party in which everybody had darkvision. So there is always somebody with a torch, lantern or light spell somesuch. No big deal.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I'd just like to point out that Goggles of Night are an uncommon magic item that doesn't require attunement.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
gothic et all
I didn't miss echo location - i left it out on purpose as it's a whole other can of worms.
Now to the constant refrain of "its fantasy, physics doesn't apply" - in 2 letters: BS!
if it were all fantasy and medieval suppositions based it wouldn't work. the reality is that almost everything in the game is, in fact, reality/physics based with just a few things not quite working that you have to suspend your disbelief for - mostly magic related. if you want to explain it all as rays of light/energy beaming out of folk's eyes and then bouncing back have fun in your game. anyone of any era that has actually experienced total darkness recognize that no rays came from your eyes. Like the stories that everyone believed the world was flat back then its a myth generated by moderns to make the modern's achievements look bigger than they are. yes some folks believed that back then - but then there are ignorant folks that still believe the world is flat too. 1-3e actually described infravision and ultravision as I described - not as rays of some sort beaming out and returning.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Well you bring up some interesting points, but my case still stands, as the og writers of D&D were adding mythology without knowing mythology and so when they didn't understand the myth they made up some BS using a high school level of science understanding making some of the earliest material sound extra special dumb.
Medusa in mythology is a member of the Gorgon sisters.
Gorgon in D&D is a Bull monster.
As I pointed out with the eye bean belief that filled the majority of human history and wasn't shown to be false until an Islamic scientist a thousand years ago invented the pin hole camera (sort of), and wasn't accepted by the majority of educated people until the end of the 18th century.
Their descriptions read the same as eye beams, but with added techno babble based on a 3rd grade science book.
Also you clearly haven't read any of the Spelljammer books to fail to see what I was pointing out. Esp the 1st and 2nd ed era Spelljammer books. But hey the writers of 5th ed made it worse by turning Toril which was a globe like the Earth into a flat plane. Hopefully that bit of art gets forgotten.
And yes Echo location would be a whole can of worms, which was why I made the joke.
Look up the Phlogiston and Crystal spheres. And for fun look up the gravity and air rules in spell jammer.
edit including a classic monster based on eye beam mythology.
Echolocation is present in the game as a form of Blindsight.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Darkness is both a story and a combat tool. Making it irrelevant is a massive blunder that DND has kept making, over and over and over again.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I am a big fan of (a) how ShadowDark has eliminated darkvision altogether, (b) how the treatment of darkness in a game product like Veins of the Earth makes it palpable and actually something worthy of dread, and (c) how Torchbearer and other games have made tools and resources mean something again.
That said I don't dislike the inclusion of species capable of darkvision as much as I do the inclusion of those capable of flight.
As Professor Dungeon Master recently pointed out it just gives characters an advantage that allows them to bypass entire challenges. It becomes less about player skill and more about a single choice a player made during character creation:
"How ever are we going to reach that artifact chained to the ceiling? We are going to have use our wits to figure out a way ..."
"I can fly."
Except it's not irrelevant, except in the hands of DMs that gloss over the relevant rules, and in so doing make darkvision more powerful than it's intended to be.
The construction of the rules mean that eventually, every character needs a means of flight - forcing 3d battlefields, making most terrain irrelevant, and so on. I have similar views on teleportation, making all encounters optional, and all straight up removing all travel.
Which is why those things aren't in my games.
In trying to make the game more magical, they make it less so. It's not that I don't understand the idea that .. when you can summon creatures from beyond mortal ken, and hurl exploding balls of fire, and so on, why is it you cannot fly, or teleport, or see in the dark. Well, it's for story reasons - and for a kind of relatability: We recognize ourselves in our characters, in their human limitations. Sure, the power fantasy doesn't stop there, but the story telling kinda does.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I hear you. As Professor Dungeon Master just recently pointed out not even the most powerful wizard in Middle-Earth could fly. Like you said. Less is more.
How often do players in your games require the use of torches or other sources of light? How often is darkness an impediment? Does its presence ever pose a challenge? Is it ever a source of dread?
For we DMs who like a dose of horror with our fantasy darkvision is a nuisance.
Being unable to see or Blinded is very crippling as it heavily impact the way you attack and prevent effects targeting what you can see, all those who can in turn see you have advantage to attack you etc..
As soon as one party member doesn't have Darkvision usually a light source is used. And even when all do, light is sometimes still used to avoid traveling in a Lightly Obscured area with disadvantage Disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks, especially during exploration.
In combat, far range is rarely used except for large scale battle, so most of the time more close combat means you deal with everyone seeing, wether in darkness or bright/dim light.
I ran an adventure a little while back that removed natural Darkvision from PCs, and my conclusion was that Darkvision isn't really the problem; the Vision & Light rules are the problem. These rules just don't do very much: the Light Obscurement from Dim Light does functionally nothing in combat, and because of the way most people interpret Heavy Obscurement, it's impossible to effectively use an area of Darkness as cover, because somehow standing in it blinds you, too. And that's leaving aside the ubiquity of the Light cantrip, which trivializes the whole matter. I expected to be able to create some interesting tactical scenarios with the Vision & Light rules after removing Darkvision, but it turns out there's just not enough meat on those bones to do anything with.