Reminder: ammo/gunpowder crafting does not become available until the archetype is taken at lv3, hence the large starting ammunition stated in extras.
When Crafting Black Powder: You follow the same rules as stated for crafting Non magic items in the player handbook, but the crafting time is halved. I.e. To craft 4lb of black powder (Market Value 70gp) it would take 35gp and a week of crafting. - You may be able to purchase BP at rare locations: You can buy a Horn of 2lb of Black Powder for around 35GP, or a Keg of 20lb of Black Powder for around 250GP. - Powder Pocket Flask 0.4lb of black powder for about 8gp. - Alternatively to save time, just start with an artificer’s bag that produces black powder.
When Crafting Ammo: Using your Tinker’s tools you may spend money to collect raw materials for crafting ammunition. Which weigh 4 pounds for every 50GP spent. As part of a long rest, you can use tinker’s tools to craft a single batch of one ammunition type. Then subtract half the market value of the created ammunition from the total GP worth of raw materials you are carrying. Batch sizes and prices are shown in the Archetype's firearms table. At the expense of paying the full market value, the crafted batch produced will be silvered (cannot be done for explosive ammunition). When crafting Bad News or Mortar ammo, be sure to subtract the gunpowder when the ammo is crafted, and not when it is shot. However this gunpowder does not count towards the crafting cost of the ammo.
Gun Drafting: Before you can craft a Firearm you must first create a draft of it. During a Short Rest, you can choose a Firearm and then make a tinkering (Intelligence) check, if you meet or succeed the DC of the Firearm; you successfully create a draft for the Firearm, and can now start to craft that Firearm. However, you cannot attempt to draft a Firearm if you are currently in the process of crafting another item. How often you can attempt to draft a firearm is up to the DM’s discretion.
Crafting a Firearm: When crafting a Firearm you follow the same rules as stated for crafting Non magic items in the player handbook, but the normal crafting time is halved. I.e. a Pepperbox (Market Value 250GP) would only cost 125GP and 25 days to make. Additionally a day’s crafting can be done as part of a long rest but a tinkering check must be made to determine any success.
Extras: - At lv1 Fighter you can start with a Musket, 60 Musket Rounds and 1 Horns of BP, instead of a bow and 20 arrows. Additionally the Pistol, and Palm Pistol (both with 60 Rounds of respective ammo) replace the light crossbow/2 hand axes as the two options. Fixing after a misfire (in combat): Wisdom tinkering check.
Amount of black powder per shot (1 BP charge is 0.01lb of BP): Palm pistol, Pistol, & Pepperbox use: 1 BP charge per shot. Musket uses: 2 BP charges per shot. Blunderbuss uses: 3 BP charges per shot. Bad News uses: 3 BP charges per shot (consumed during ammo crafting, not when ammo is shot). Mortar uses 40 BP charges per shot (consumed during ammo crafting, not when ammo is shot).
Weight per ammo round for every gun: Palm pistol: 0.025lb Pistol & Pepperbox (Primary): 0.04lb The Pistol and Pepperbox share the same ammo type. Musket: 0.06lb (50cal) Blunderbuss: 0.08lb Bad New: 0.2lb Mortar: 1lb
I've already listed ammo specs for all guns listed on the subclass made by mathew mercer in version 1.3 including the pistol which is pretty much a revolver since it has multiple chambers and one barrel for firing. If you are referring to a weapon I havnt mentioned at all, thats probably because either mercer has added more firearm options without me noticing (in which case i'll have to look at that later), its a weapon created by someone else, or an existing example weapon from the dmg which is not compatible with the gunslinger class/weapons, and give rather inaccurate ammo specs.
In addition if you are thinking of a more modern style revolver; whether that be cap or centerfire based ammo, both are substantially advanced systems which a single gunslinger could not feasibly support the crafting of supples while adventuring, without living in a world where firearms are readily available to most people and hence supplies can just be bought instead of made. Namely as the primer/accelerent required for making caps and centerfire cartridges are more complex and rare than gunpowder and would be too difficult to make on the fly.
I havnt included any as the dc is very much at the DM's discretion as the variables of any two different campaigns may vary immensisly. DC would probably have to be costantly adjusted based on what guns the player wants over others, they may not even want to bother with some of the guns at all. Putting that to one side though, here's what I feel would be reasonable:
Musket: N/A a starting gun, you already know how to make it Palm Pistol (if not chosen as a starting gun): DC10 Pistol (if not chosen as a starting gun): DC12 Pepperbox: DC14 Blunderbus: DC17 Bad New/Hand Mortar: (DC20) But I personally would not let them attempt to draft too often, for instance i would specify they'd have to be in a peaceful environment where they could focus, calculate and sketch without issue so as in their room at a tavern. I would not allow drafting on a bumpy caravan ride, especially after having recently nearly died in a fight. On the event of failure i'd also argue they would need some small amount of downtime to think about the issue before they attempted again. On a success they'd need to craft that item before entertaining the idea of drafting more, and even then only a good time after getting use to the new weapon they'd just crafted. Obviously all of this is very much case by case, and up to DM's discretion. Alternatively Use lower DC's but require multiple checks over a period of time.
Heya. Found the Gunslinger class by Matt Mercer earlier this week, and I started working with it. Even found the module to work on Fantasy Grounds. My question is, how did you find information when it comes to Black powder/artificer bag, or information on the class in general?
Well the sub class is easily accessible on DMsGuild, the black powder sizes are in the DMG, and when i say artificer bag, although i'm not sure how artificer works now, a previous ua artificer had artificer bag for generating ammo.
Well the sub class is easily accessible on DMsGuild, the black powder sizes are in the DMG, and when i say artificer bag, although i'm not sure how artificer works now, a previous ua artificer had artificer bag for generating ammo.
Forgive me for my ignorance, but I completely forgot the DMG actually existed. I haven't done any DMing at all, just played. However, I don't see anything about black powder being mentioned, just gunpowder. Do you have any suggestions for the artificer bag?
Personally I wouldnt like using an artificer bag, but if I did, here's an edited version. Since the actual bullets are easy to make and gunslinger has different ammo types, where artificer does not, it would only need to produce the gunpowder. You can use the Artificer bag to produce blackpowder for your firearms. At the end of each long rest, provided you engage in no other activity, you can magically produce 40 BP charges. After each short rest, you can produce 10 BP Charges. If you lose your artificer bag, you can purchase a new one for 50gp. However due to the blackpowder being magical in origin it degrades at a significally faster rate then real BP. Unless stored properly, such as in Bad news or mortor ammunition, the black powder loses potency after a week. (So players can't build bombs/hoard it with minimal effort).
Alternatively you could give no expiry date but require the player feeds the bag the raw ingrediants for black powder so they just dont need to spend the time or effort crafting it, just money/scavage ingrediants.
Great info, very helpful! I have a question: what would the cost of crafting be for firearms like Bad News and the Hand Mortar? In the gunslinger section, where the firearms table is, it just says ‘crafted’ in the cost section.
The only issue I have is doing an intelligence check for the gunslinger to make a weapon. WIth DEX and WIS being his top stats, and CON the third, it does not make sense for this class to require a 4th stat to be high to succeed in an essential skill. After much checking, I found a post regarding a Matt Mercer tweet ( Matt Mercer Aug 8 2016 ) that specified DEX for crafting AMMO. I would extend that to apply to crafting weapons as well.
Last night, I played my first gunslinger and first for my DM as well. He was planning on using INT too, but I argued against it. In general, I would say it makes sense. But for this class, it does not. I am glad I found that tweet today. I'm pretty sure my DM will go with DEX too.
The int check is only to draft not craft, as inventing something that does not exist takes intelligence. Its a one time per weapon check (if you pass the first time) as well and it being a hard check to pass due to not being a high stat is a good thing; as it helps slow down a player who may attempt to spam drafting the best weapon. Any checks related to the actual crafting would be dex tinkering check yes, but a draft is another thing entirely.
The int check is only to draft not craft, as inventing something that does not exist takes intelligence. Its a one time per weapon check (if you pass the first time) as well and it being a hard check to pass due to not being a high stat is a good thing; as it helps slow down a player who may attempt to spam drafting the best weapon. Any checks related to the actual crafting would be dex tinkering check yes, but a draft is another thing entirely.
But what if it already DOES exist tho? Then that would not make any sense.
In which case this whole discussion is redundant as you can just craft straight away. You wouldn't even need to draft (which is the only time you need int) just buy/gather/learn the design from another source.
Great info, very helpful! I have a question: what would the cost of crafting be for firearms like Bad News and the Hand Mortar? In the gunslinger section, where the firearms table is, it just says ‘crafted’ in the cost section.
Well that's up to the dm as they may use it as a tool of spacing out when you get your very best weapons, but on the cr stream bad news had a cost of 800gp, so i'd imagine a hand mortar should would be the same or slightly higher
When converting your BP used per shot. You end up getting 200 shots (pistol) or 100 shots (musket) per powder horn. I personally think this is WAY to many shots. This means you might need 3 or 4 powder horns for an entire campaign. Percy had to get several hogs heads worth. Was this because he was working on several projects that would consume BP during the creation?
When converting your BP used per shot. You end up getting 200 shots (pistol) or 100 shots (musket) per powder horn. I personally think this is WAY to many shots. This means you might need 3 or 4 powder horns for an entire campaign. Percy had to get several hogs heads worth. Was this because he was working on several projects that would consume BP during the creation?
this is based on weight not games mechanics balance. IRL (information taken from gun discussions online, so validity is questionable, but also exact stats arnt important just looking for rough idea for weights for stuff) A half ounce ball is a 32 gauge, about .50 caliber, would only require a charge of 50 - 60 grains of powder to fire (primer not included). 60 grains is equal to 0.0086lb of powder. Considering i've associated the musket for 50cal equivalent, requiring you to use 2 BP charges (0.02lb) of charge per shot, even with the priming amount included that's still more than required irl. Hence i wouldn't advise increasing Bp for shots. I'd instead advise you to make BP more expensive if you want to decrease the amount players can make/buy (must also consider a player may not be able to buy it anywhere and is forced to craft, so being able to craft a lot of shots fast can become essential for survival). Also Cr never exactly measured bp use, Matt just told Talisen when he felt he was getting low on powder. Also like you mentioned percy did have a lot of projects he used the black powder on not just pepperbox shots
Reminder: ammo/gunpowder crafting does not become available until the archetype is taken at lv3, hence the large starting ammunition stated in extras.
When Crafting Black Powder: You follow the same rules as stated for crafting Non magic items in the player handbook, but the crafting time is halved. I.e. To craft 4lb of black powder (Market Value 70gp) it would take 35gp and a week of crafting.
- You may be able to purchase BP at rare locations: You can buy a Horn of 2lb of Black Powder for around 35GP, or a Keg of 20lb of Black Powder for around 250GP.
- Powder Pocket Flask 0.4lb of black powder for about 8gp.
- Alternatively to save time, just start with an artificer’s bag that produces black powder.
When Crafting Ammo: Using your Tinker’s tools you may spend money to collect raw materials for crafting ammunition. Which weigh 4 pounds for every 50GP spent. As part of a long rest, you can use tinker’s tools to craft a single batch of one ammunition type. Then subtract half the market value of the created ammunition from the total GP worth of raw materials you are carrying. Batch sizes and prices are shown in the Archetype's firearms table. At the expense of paying the full market value, the crafted batch produced will be silvered (cannot be done for explosive ammunition). When crafting Bad News or Mortar ammo, be sure to subtract the gunpowder when the ammo is crafted, and not when it is shot. However this gunpowder does not count towards the crafting cost of the ammo.
Gun Drafting: Before you can craft a Firearm you must first create a draft of it. During a Short Rest, you can choose a Firearm and then make a tinkering (Intelligence) check, if you meet or succeed the DC of the Firearm; you successfully create a draft for the Firearm, and can now start to craft that Firearm. However, you cannot attempt to draft a Firearm if you are currently in the process of crafting another item. How often you can attempt to draft a firearm is up to the DM’s discretion.
Crafting a Firearm: When crafting a Firearm you follow the same rules as stated for crafting Non magic items in the player handbook, but the normal crafting time is halved. I.e. a Pepperbox (Market Value 250GP) would only cost 125GP and 25 days to make. Additionally a day’s crafting can be done as part of a long rest but a tinkering check must be made to determine any success.
Extras:
- At lv1 Fighter you can start with a Musket, 60 Musket Rounds and 1 Horns of BP, instead of a bow and 20 arrows. Additionally the Pistol, and Palm Pistol (both with 60 Rounds of respective ammo) replace the light crossbow/2 hand axes as the two options.
Fixing after a misfire (in combat): Wisdom tinkering check.
Amount of black powder per shot (1 BP charge is 0.01lb of BP):
Palm pistol, Pistol, & Pepperbox use: 1 BP charge per shot.
Musket uses: 2 BP charges per shot.
Blunderbuss uses: 3 BP charges per shot.
Bad News uses: 3 BP charges per shot (consumed during ammo crafting, not when ammo is shot).
Mortar uses 40 BP charges per shot (consumed during ammo crafting, not when ammo is shot).
Weight per ammo round for every gun:
Palm pistol: 0.025lb
Pistol & Pepperbox (Primary): 0.04lb The Pistol and Pepperbox share the same ammo type.
Musket: 0.06lb (50cal)
Blunderbuss: 0.08lb
Bad New: 0.2lb
Mortar: 1lb
Edit: adjusted ammo weight
Gun Appearance and Mechanics Examples:
Musket: https://youtu.be/5ODhQmE2OqY
Palm Pistol: This, but with a wrist attachment: https://www.peterdyson.co.uk/acatalog/D3965.pistol.250.JPG
Pistol: The Collier Pistol but with 4 chambers instead of 5: https://youtu.be/i9Km5KaeO7I?list=LLjp4rtayb43dlWskSTXxBSg
Pepperbox: Pistol version of this gun: https://youtu.be/zTz4aMle71I?list=LLjp4rtayb43dlWskSTXxBSg
Blunderbuss: http://www.theknohlcollection.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/RIFLES-REVIEW-010.jpg
Bad News: But slightly bigger/longer, flashy, and with a side mounted scope: https://youtu.be/beOgmCxeh7A?list=LLjp4rtayb43dlWskSTXxBSg
Hand Mortar: http://www.therifleshoppe.com/images/trs_pics/819/819_Full_Stock_600_wide.jpg
What ammo does a revolver use?
I've already listed ammo specs for all guns listed on the subclass made by mathew mercer in version 1.3 including the pistol which is pretty much a revolver since it has multiple chambers and one barrel for firing. If you are referring to a weapon I havnt mentioned at all, thats probably because either mercer has added more firearm options without me noticing (in which case i'll have to look at that later), its a weapon created by someone else, or an existing example weapon from the dmg which is not compatible with the gunslinger class/weapons, and give rather inaccurate ammo specs.
In addition if you are thinking of a more modern style revolver; whether that be cap or centerfire based ammo, both are substantially advanced systems which a single gunslinger could not feasibly support the crafting of supples while adventuring, without living in a world where firearms are readily available to most people and hence supplies can just be bought instead of made. Namely as the primer/accelerent required for making caps and centerfire cartridges are more complex and rare than gunpowder and would be too difficult to make on the fly.
The pepperbox is basically a revolver, so it uses the same type of ammunition.
Where can I find the DC of the Firearm you stated within the Gun Drafting section?
I havnt included any as the dc is very much at the DM's discretion as the variables of any two different campaigns may vary immensisly. DC would probably have to be costantly adjusted based on what guns the player wants over others, they may not even want to bother with some of the guns at all.
Putting that to one side though, here's what I feel would be reasonable:
Musket: N/A a starting gun, you already know how to make it
Palm Pistol (if not chosen as a starting gun): DC10
Pistol (if not chosen as a starting gun): DC12
Pepperbox: DC14
Blunderbus: DC17
Bad New/Hand Mortar: (DC20)
But I personally would not let them attempt to draft too often, for instance i would specify they'd have to be in a peaceful environment where they could focus, calculate and sketch without issue so as in their room at a tavern. I would not allow drafting on a bumpy caravan ride, especially after having recently nearly died in a fight. On the event of failure i'd also argue they would need some small amount of downtime to think about the issue before they attempted again. On a success they'd need to craft that item before entertaining the idea of drafting more, and even then only a good time after getting use to the new weapon they'd just crafted. Obviously all of this is very much case by case, and up to DM's discretion. Alternatively Use lower DC's but require multiple checks over a period of time.
Heya. Found the Gunslinger class by Matt Mercer earlier this week, and I started working with it. Even found the module to work on Fantasy Grounds. My question is, how did you find information when it comes to Black powder/artificer bag, or information on the class in general?
Well the sub class is easily accessible on DMsGuild, the black powder sizes are in the DMG, and when i say artificer bag, although i'm not sure how artificer works now, a previous ua artificer had artificer bag for generating ammo.
Forgive me for my ignorance, but I completely forgot the DMG actually existed. I haven't done any DMing at all, just played. However, I don't see anything about black powder being mentioned, just gunpowder. Do you have any suggestions for the artificer bag?
Black powder and gunpowder are the same thing.
Personally I wouldnt like using an artificer bag, but if I did, here's an edited version. Since the actual bullets are easy to make and gunslinger has different ammo types, where artificer does not, it would only need to produce the gunpowder.
You can use the Artificer bag to produce blackpowder for your firearms. At the end of each long rest, provided you engage in no other activity, you can magically produce 40 BP charges. After each short rest, you can produce 10 BP Charges. If you lose your artificer bag, you can purchase a new one for 50gp. However due to the blackpowder being magical in origin it degrades at a significally faster rate then real BP. Unless stored properly, such as in Bad news or mortor ammunition, the black powder loses potency after a week. (So players can't build bombs/hoard it with minimal effort).
Alternatively you could give no expiry date but require the player feeds the bag the raw ingrediants for black powder so they just dont need to spend the time or effort crafting it, just money/scavage ingrediants.
Great info, very helpful! I have a question: what would the cost of crafting be for firearms like Bad News and the Hand Mortar? In the gunslinger section, where the firearms table is, it just says ‘crafted’ in the cost section.
The only issue I have is doing an intelligence check for the gunslinger to make a weapon. WIth DEX and WIS being his top stats, and CON the third, it does not make sense for this class to require a 4th stat to be high to succeed in an essential skill. After much checking, I found a post regarding a Matt Mercer tweet ( Matt Mercer Aug 8 2016 ) that specified DEX for crafting AMMO. I would extend that to apply to crafting weapons as well.
Last night, I played my first gunslinger and first for my DM as well. He was planning on using INT too, but I argued against it. In general, I would say it makes sense. But for this class, it does not. I am glad I found that tweet today. I'm pretty sure my DM will go with DEX too.
The int check is only to draft not craft, as inventing something that does not exist takes intelligence. Its a one time per weapon check (if you pass the first time) as well and it being a hard check to pass due to not being a high stat is a good thing; as it helps slow down a player who may attempt to spam drafting the best weapon. Any checks related to the actual crafting would be dex tinkering check yes, but a draft is another thing entirely.
But what if it already DOES exist tho? Then that would not make any sense.
In which case this whole discussion is redundant as you can just craft straight away. You wouldn't even need to draft (which is the only time you need int) just buy/gather/learn the design from another source.
Well that's up to the dm as they may use it as a tool of spacing out when you get your very best weapons, but on the cr stream bad news had a cost of 800gp, so i'd imagine a hand mortar should would be the same or slightly higher
When converting your BP used per shot. You end up getting 200 shots (pistol) or 100 shots (musket) per powder horn. I personally think this is WAY to many shots. This means you might need 3 or 4 powder horns for an entire campaign. Percy had to get several hogs heads worth. Was this because he was working on several projects that would consume BP during the creation?
this is based on weight not games mechanics balance.
IRL (information taken from gun discussions online, so validity is questionable, but also exact stats arnt important just looking for rough idea for weights for stuff)
A half ounce ball is a 32 gauge, about .50 caliber, would only require a charge of 50 - 60 grains of powder to fire (primer not included). 60 grains is equal to 0.0086lb of powder. Considering i've associated the musket for 50cal equivalent, requiring you to use 2 BP charges (0.02lb) of charge per shot, even with the priming amount included that's still more than required irl. Hence i wouldn't advise increasing Bp for shots. I'd instead advise you to make BP more expensive if you want to decrease the amount players can make/buy (must also consider a player may not be able to buy it anywhere and is forced to craft, so being able to craft a lot of shots fast can become essential for survival).
Also Cr never exactly measured bp use, Matt just told Talisen when he felt he was getting low on powder. Also like you mentioned percy did have a lot of projects he used the black powder on not just pepperbox shots
How many long rest to craft pepper box and pistol ?