So I've been binge watching critical role, and after the first 30+ episodes, it becomes clear Pike can not succeed on a stealth check. Statistically this should be expected as at its worse, disadvantage results in a -5 to the dice roll. Of course it doesn't help that she is probably not adding anything to the roll. So is the extra point or two of AC actually worth not succeeding on stealth rolls? It may be possible that one could maneuver their character to gain proficiency in stealth to help balance this out, but I currently feel like the extra AC isn't worth failing on stealth checks all the time, especially with an unforgiving DM.
I believe a number of factors come into play starting with the party makeup. If the party generally relies on stealth, reguardless of AC, in many cases you are either going to be out of position when the fight breaks out or you may find yourself the cause of the fight because all of your party made their stealth checks and you did not. On the other hand if your party is lacking in the tank area, depending on your class and character makeup, you may be able to fill in as the tank to get your party through the encounter. Character level and encounter types also factor in how effective higher AC is. At lower levels, depending on dice rolls, it is common for someone with a high AC not to get hit very often. But as you rise in level, monsters get more difficult and have higher bonuses to hit you, in some cases, it doesn't seem like there is much difference between a 16 and an 18.
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Roll the dice and play the game, I’m not here to listen to your politics.
“But this isn’t right. You’re meant to charge in, sword drawn, banner flying-that’s what all the other knights did!” “Yeah, right before they burst into flame.”
Well you can have an 18 (assuming +2 dex) without taking disadvantage, so disadvantage on stealth checks gives you an AC of 20. I'm not sure that extra 2 points is worth it. Especially for a non fighter character as I believe the fighter is the only class that doesn't have to burn a feat to get heavy armor. I also think there are better options for a tank rather than directly jumping to heavy armor.
Granted if your dex is giving you negatives, then maybe Heavy armor would be for you. Though this would also make the disadvantage a lot more of a disadvantage.
I think it depends on what build you are going for? My paladin has a low dex due to the route I am taking with him, SO heavy armor would benefit him.
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I think that plate armor speaks more to the personality of it's wearer than a pure mechanical disadvantage. The wearer probably prioritizes safety and/or they're honorable and would never sneak up on an enemy and take their challenges head on.
Mechanically speaking Dex is seen as the 'God Stat' for 5E, so you're not wrong that a high Dex character will prove more useful in more scenarios. It does create a great party dynamic where the heavy armor fighter might need a spell cast on them or even doff their armor to sneak for awhile.
Well you can have an 18 (assuming +2 dex) without taking disadvantage, so disadvantage on stealth checks gives you an AC of 20. I'm not sure that extra 2 points is worth it. Especially for a non fighter character as I believe the fighter is the only class that doesn't have to burn a feat to get heavy armor. I also think there are better options for a tank rather than directly jumping to heavy armor.
Granted if your dex is giving you negatives, then maybe Heavy armor would be for you. Though this would also make the disadvantage a lot more of a disadvantage.
You can also get proficiency in Heavy Armor as a Tempest, War, or Forge Cleric.
I do kind of agree that for a lot of builds it's better to have higher Dex and not use Heavy Armor or Plate. Still, I think through much of the game, being 10% harder to hit (a +2 AC) is fairly significant, and by the time that it isn't, you've probably got magical armor anyway. Mithral Plate has no stealth disadvantage. Dwarven Plate adds an extra 2 to AC. I think you can make it work.
It depends a lot on the campaign. One where you're using a lot of stealth, you might want to go for the Breastplate. But if you're mostly just fighting and not sneaking around, you may just wanna grab the plate.
The problem here is that if you are using plate armor, you are a strengtth fighter. If this is true, your dex is low and therefore the stealth is already not a great roll. With plate on top, stealth is basically not possible. AC is really the best way to protect yourself. Look here for how high AC can go.
Some characters do not care for stealth anyways. Be it role playing reasons, or the fact they don't have much dex in any case. Or maybe you prefer to fight on horseback and Mr. Ed is not skilled in the arts of the ninja.
The only way to have equivalent armor and not have stealth disadvantage is to take Medium Armor Master, and have at least 16 dex. That is a lot of investment from a character to ensure you have enough dex and to use one of your total of maybe 10 ASI for.
D&D is best played / planned / executed as a group game. Thinking of what's more advantageous really matters on the scenario. There are a lot of ways spell casters and sneaky sorts can creatively (and within the written rules) help the noise clanker with the 20 AC out. And they should! Sure going the full dex route is great, a dex fighter is really viable in this edition. But there's times when a monster early on has +7 to hit and can knock rogues and monks about and only meet steel with a well placed fighter or paladin in plate or half plate standing vigil with a shield. All tactics are viable. If you over think the math of it all on what's best most often you'll give a crafty DM an element to exploit.
The problem here is that if you are using plate armor, you are a strengtth fighter. If this is true, your dex is low and therefore the stealth is already not a great roll. With plate on top, stealth is basically not possible. AC is really the best way to protect yourself. Look here for how high AC can go.
I'd say largely irrelevant unless your DM just hands you whatever magic item you ask for. Also it sounds like we are talking level 20 stuff. And a lot of that can be achieved without the need for plate.
So I've been binge watching critical role, and after the first 30+ episodes, it becomes clear Pike can not succeed on a stealth check. Statistically this should be expected as at its worse, disadvantage results in a -5 to the dice roll. Of course it doesn't help that she is probably not adding anything to the roll. So is the extra point or two of AC actually worth not succeeding on stealth rolls? It may be possible that one could maneuver their character to gain proficiency in stealth to help balance this out, but I currently feel like the extra AC isn't worth failing on stealth checks all the time, especially with an unforgiving DM.
I believe a number of factors come into play starting with the party makeup. If the party generally relies on stealth, reguardless of AC, in many cases you are either going to be out of position when the fight breaks out or you may find yourself the cause of the fight because all of your party made their stealth checks and you did not. On the other hand if your party is lacking in the tank area, depending on your class and character makeup, you may be able to fill in as the tank to get your party through the encounter. Character level and encounter types also factor in how effective higher AC is. At lower levels, depending on dice rolls, it is common for someone with a high AC not to get hit very often. But as you rise in level, monsters get more difficult and have higher bonuses to hit you, in some cases, it doesn't seem like there is much difference between a 16 and an 18.
Roll the dice and play the game, I’m not here to listen to your politics.
“But this isn’t right. You’re meant to charge in, sword drawn, banner flying-that’s what all the other knights did!”
“Yeah, right before they burst into flame.”
Well you can have an 18 (assuming +2 dex) without taking disadvantage, so disadvantage on stealth checks gives you an AC of 20. I'm not sure that extra 2 points is worth it. Especially for a non fighter character as I believe the fighter is the only class that doesn't have to burn a feat to get heavy armor. I also think there are better options for a tank rather than directly jumping to heavy armor.
Granted if your dex is giving you negatives, then maybe Heavy armor would be for you. Though this would also make the disadvantage a lot more of a disadvantage.
I think it depends on what build you are going for? My paladin has a low dex due to the route I am taking with him, SO heavy armor would benefit him.
Host of the Pocket Mimic Podcast, a D&D 5e Show! Join us and listen in as we build a new world step by step! (http://Pocketmimic.com)
DMs vs PCs! All DMs are evil | ENnie Award Winner | OSR style in a 5e world |1000+ character souls taken | 25+ yrs exp
Remember to hit the thanks button, if you feel my info was useful, it helps me know I've provided helpful information and know I'm on the right track.
I think that plate armor speaks more to the personality of it's wearer than a pure mechanical disadvantage. The wearer probably prioritizes safety and/or they're honorable and would never sneak up on an enemy and take their challenges head on.
Mechanically speaking Dex is seen as the 'God Stat' for 5E, so you're not wrong that a high Dex character will prove more useful in more scenarios. It does create a great party dynamic where the heavy armor fighter might need a spell cast on them or even doff their armor to sneak for awhile.
The problem here is that if you are using plate armor, you are a strengtth fighter. If this is true, your dex is low and therefore the stealth is already not a great roll. With plate on top, stealth is basically not possible. AC is really the best way to protect yourself. Look here for how high AC can go.
Some characters do not care for stealth anyways. Be it role playing reasons, or the fact they don't have much dex in any case. Or maybe you prefer to fight on horseback and Mr. Ed is not skilled in the arts of the ninja.
The only way to have equivalent armor and not have stealth disadvantage is to take Medium Armor Master, and have at least 16 dex. That is a lot of investment from a character to ensure you have enough dex and to use one of your total of maybe 10 ASI for.
D&D is best played / planned / executed as a group game. Thinking of what's more advantageous really matters on the scenario. There are a lot of ways spell casters and sneaky sorts can creatively (and within the written rules) help the noise clanker with the 20 AC out. And they should! Sure going the full dex route is great, a dex fighter is really viable in this edition. But there's times when a monster early on has +7 to hit and can knock rogues and monks about and only meet steel with a well placed fighter or paladin in plate or half plate standing vigil with a shield.
All tactics are viable. If you over think the math of it all on what's best most often you'll give a crafty DM an element to exploit.
But you aren't really gaining anything. You would probably end up getting hit only like once or twice more.