Using the nick weapon property does the weapon with it have to be the first weapon used or could it be the second weapon used.
Does the nick property grant the second primary action or must it be the second primary action using the light weapon property action.
Can it go vex, nick + bonus attack? Or can it go nick, vex + bonus attack?
There is a lack of clarity as to whether the Nick weapon needs to be the one that makes the additional attack, or the one that grants the additional attack.
If it's the one that grants the attack, then it doesn't matter if you make other attacks between attacking with the nick weapon and taking the additional attack.
Edit: If it's the one that makes the attack, it also doesn't matter if there are other attacks after the enabling attack and before the additional attack.
Dropping is equivalent to sheathing and drawing, per the rules. Therefore, per the rules you CANNOT drop a weapon, draw a weapon (2nd free action thus Utilize action) AND attack on that round. The example scenario contradicts the printed rules.
My house rule will be that dropping a weapon is NOT the same a sheathing- dropping will be completely free, thereby allowing the “counted” free action of drawing with an attack
Dropping is equivalent to sheathing and drawing, per the rules. Therefore, per the rules you CANNOT drop a weapon, draw a weapon (2nd free action thus Utilize action) AND attack on that round. The example scenario contradicts the printed rules.
The Attack action gives additional weapon interactions, one for each attack you make as part of it.
Equipping and Unequipping Weapons. You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action. You do so either before or after the attack. If you equip a weapon before an attack, you don’t need to use it for that attack. Equipping a weapon includes drawing it from a sheath or picking it up. Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it.
The example scenario is:
Drop (free interaction)
Attack action
Draw (granted by the attack action, contingent on the next item)
Using the nick weapon property does the weapon with it have to be the first weapon used or could it be the second weapon used.
Does the nick property grant the second primary action or must it be the second primary action using the light weapon property action.
Can it go vex, nick + bonus attack? Or can it go nick, vex + bonus attack?
My understanding is that you need to start the Attack action using a Light weapon, for example, in your main hand and without the Nick Mastery (Vex, in your example). Then, you can make the extra attack with the weapon that has Nick Mastery.
Light
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative. For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
Nick
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
Using the nick weapon property does the weapon with it have to be the first weapon used or could it be the second weapon used.
Does the nick property grant the second primary action or must it be the second primary action using the light weapon property action.
Can it go vex, nick + bonus attack? Or can it go nick, vex + bonus attack?
My understanding is that you need to start the Attack action using a Light weapon, for example, in your main hand and without the Nick Mastery (Vex, in your example). Then, you can make the extra attack with the weapon that has Nick Mastery.
Light
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative. For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
Nick
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
Unlike most other masteries, Nick doesn't say "with this weapon" anywhere. That language is left out. It seems that this is so that the Light+Nick weapon is order-independent with other Light weapons in the same attack action. Personally, I think this solves the issue where one DM might interpret the Nick needing to come first (assuming the Nick is needed up-front to "activate" the combo), and another DM might say "well, you have to have it in the off-hand for it to work" (assuming the Nick has to be an "even lighter" weapon to make it fast enough to go "at the same time"). This just steps around that question. If you have Nick, you get to make the 2 light weapon attacks in the same action, instead of using a BA. Simple.
Dropping is equivalent to sheathing and drawing, per the rules. Therefore, per the rules you CANNOT drop a weapon, draw a weapon (2nd free action thus Utilize action) AND attack on that round. The example scenario contradicts the printed rules.
The Attack action gives additional weapon interactions, one for each attack you make as part of it.
Equipping and Unequipping Weapons. You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action. You do so either before or after the attack. If you equip a weapon before an attack, you don’t need to use it for that attack. Equipping a weapon includes drawing it from a sheath or picking it up. Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it.
The example scenario is:
Drop (free interaction)
Attack action
Draw (granted by the attack action, contingent on the next item)
Make an attack
"You can either equip or unequip one weapon..." And: "Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it."
So your example must be corrected:
Drop (free interaction **but by definition is unequipping**)
Attack action
Draw (**not** granted by the attack action, **because you already dropped, using your one allowed free action**)
Dropping is equivalent to sheathing and drawing, per the rules. Therefore, per the rules you CANNOT drop a weapon, draw a weapon (2nd free action thus Utilize action) AND attack on that round. The example scenario contradicts the printed rules.
The Attack action gives additional weapon interactions, one for each attack you make as part of it.
Equipping and Unequipping Weapons. You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action. You do so either before or after the attack. If you equip a weapon before an attack, you don’t need to use it for that attack. Equipping a weapon includes drawing it from a sheath or picking it up. Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it.
The example scenario is:
Drop (free interaction)
Attack action
Draw (granted by the attack action, contingent on the next item)
Make an attack
"You can either equip or unequip one weapon..." And: "Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it."
So your example must be corrected:
Drop (free interaction **but by definition is unequipping**)
Attack action
Draw (**not** granted by the attack action, **because you already dropped, using your one allowed free action**)
Make an attack
The free interaction is independent of the attack action. You can drop a weapon and Dash.
The weapon interactions of the attack action are in addition to the free interaction.
Why do you need the Dual Wielder feat to add on the extra attack? Most of the comments here seem to agree that you need this feat to add on the extra attack to make it 4 attacks per turn.
I'll use an example:
Fighter level 5 wielding a shortsword and a scimitar. At this level i also have the extra attack class feature.
I attack once with the short sword and in the same action i use the scimitar's nick property to get in another attack. Now my BA is free.
I attack again with extra attack with the short sword which is a light weapon that allows me to hit again with another light weapon as my bonus action. Since my BA has been freed up above then i should just be able to go ahead and launch this bonus action hit with my scimitar to complete the 4 attacks in my round. Right?
If this is the case then why do i need the dual weilder feat? Yes i get that it allows you to bonus action attack with another one handed weapon that doesn't have the light property but it isn't a necessity to fulfill the 4 attacks per round is it?
Why do you need the Dual Wielder feat to add on the extra attack? Most of the comments here seem to agree that you need this feat to add on the extra attack to make it 4 attacks per turn.
I'll use an example:
Fighter level 5 wielding a shortsword and a scimitar. At this level i also have the extra attack class feature.
I attack once with the short sword and in the same action i use the scimitar's nick property to get in another attack. Now my BA is free.
I attack again with extra attack with the short sword which is a light weapon that allows me to hit again with another light weapon as my bonus action. Since my BA has been freed up above then i should just be able to go ahead and launch this bonus action hit with my scimitar to complete the 4 attacks in my round. Right?
If this is the case then why do i need the dual weilder feat? Yes i get that it allows you to bonus action attack with another one handed weapon that doesn't have the light property but it isn't a necessity to fulfill the 4 attacks per round is it?
I think the way it's written is not entirely clear, but I think the intent is that the Nick property changes the Light attack from "as a bonus action" to "as part of the attack action but still only once per turn". See how it is written, with emphasis mine:
Nick
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
Perhaps you might argue that it means you can only benefit from Nick once per turn, but the way it is written sounds to me like it says you can only benefit from Light once per turn. It says this extra attack can be made once per turn, and Nick doesn't give an extra attack it modifies the extra attack from the Light property, so it can only refer to the Light extra attack.
I think the way it's written is not entirely clear, but I think the intent is that the Nick property changes the Light attack from "as a bonus action" to "as part of the attack action but still only once per turn". See how it is written, with emphasis mine:
Nick
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
Perhaps you might argue that it means you can only benefit from Nick once per turn, but the way it is written sounds to me like it says you can only benefit from Light once per turn. It says this extra attack can be made once per turn, and Nick doesn't give an extra attack it modifies the extra attack from the Light property, so it can only refer to the Light extra attack.
You're correct. Nick doesn't give you an additional attack. It modifies the Light property, and part of its modification is limiting the attack of the light property to once per turn.
(If you had two bonus actions, which is AFAIK not possible, you could trigger the Light property twice if Nick isn't involved.)
This is all more requiring of fiddly rules reading than I think it should be, and there's nowhere that puts it all together for you.
Why do you need the Dual Wielder feat to add on the extra attack? Most of the comments here seem to agree that you need this feat to add on the extra attack to make it 4 attacks per turn.
I'll use an example:
Fighter level 5 wielding a shortsword and a scimitar. At this level i also have the extra attack class feature.
I attack once with the short sword and in the same action i use the scimitar's nick property to get in another attack. Now my BA is free.
I attack again with extra attack with the short sword which is a light weapon that allows me to hit again with another light weapon as my bonus action. Since my BA has been freed up above then i should just be able to go ahead and launch this bonus action hit with my scimitar to complete the 4 attacks in my round. Right?
If this is the case then why do i need the dual weilder feat? Yes i get that it allows you to bonus action attack with another one handed weapon that doesn't have the light property but it isn't a necessity to fulfill the 4 attacks per round is it?
I think the way it's written is not entirely clear, but I think the intent is that the Nick property changes the Light attack from "as a bonus action" to "as part of the attack action but still only once per turn". See how it is written, with emphasis mine:
Nick
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
Perhaps you might argue that it means you can only benefit from Nick once per turn, but the way it is written sounds to me like it says you can only benefit from Light once per turn. It says this extra attack can be made once per turn, and Nick doesn't give an extra attack it modifies the extra attack from the Light property, so it can only refer to the Light extra attack.
I'm not arguing whether you can use the Nick property more than once per turn. It states that you can only use it once per turn. What i want to know is:
How does the dual wielder feat give you the 4th attack on your turn at level 5 onwards (see my previous post)? According to the rules as written, it seems like you should already be able to make this 4th attack on your bonus action because it is triggered by making an attack with a light weapon as part of your second or extra attack class feature.
Why do you need the Dual Wielder feat to add on the extra attack? Most of the comments here seem to agree that you need this feat to add on the extra attack to make it 4 attacks per turn.
I'll use an example:
Fighter level 5 wielding a shortsword and a scimitar. At this level i also have the extra attack class feature.
I attack once with the short sword and in the same action i use the scimitar's nick property to get in another attack. Now my BA is free.
I attack again with extra attack with the short sword which is a light weapon that allows me to hit again with another light weapon as my bonus action. Since my BA has been freed up above then i should just be able to go ahead and launch this bonus action hit with my scimitar to complete the 4 attacks in my round. Right?
If this is the case then why do i need the dual weilder feat? Yes i get that it allows you to bonus action attack with another one handed weapon that doesn't have the light property but it isn't a necessity to fulfill the 4 attacks per round is it?
I think the way it's written is not entirely clear, but I think the intent is that the Nick property changes the Light attack from "as a bonus action" to "as part of the attack action but still only once per turn". See how it is written, with emphasis mine:
Nick
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
Perhaps you might argue that it means you can only benefit from Nick once per turn, but the way it is written sounds to me like it says you can only benefit from Light once per turn. It says this extra attack can be made once per turn, and Nick doesn't give an extra attack it modifies the extra attack from the Light property, so it can only refer to the Light extra attack.
I'm not arguing whether you can use the Nick property more than once per turn. It states that you can only use it once per turn. What i want to know is:
How does the dual wielder feat give you the 4th attack on your turn at level 5 onwards (see my previous post)? According to the rules as written, it seems like you should already be able to make this 4th attack on your bonus action because it is triggered by making an attack with a light weapon as part of your second or extra attack class feature.
The response you quoted explains it -- the Nick property modifies the Light property so that its attack can be used only once per turn.
See my post above for a slightly more detailed breakdown.
[...] I attack again with extra attack with the short sword which is a light weapon that allows me to hit again with another light weapon as my bonus action. Since my BA has been freed up above then i should just be able to go ahead and launch this bonus action hit with my scimitar to complete the 4 attacks in my round. Right?
I think @Avinush is asking whether a level 5 Fighter, when taking the Attack action, activates the Light property with the second attack (the Extra Attack granted at level 5) to allow for using the Bonus Action.
[...] I attack again with extra attack with the short sword which is a light weapon that allows me to hit again with another light weapon as my bonus action. Since my BA has been freed up above then i should just be able to go ahead and launch this bonus action hit with my scimitar to complete the 4 attacks in my round. Right?
I think @Avinush is asking whether a level 5 Fighter, when taking the Attack action, activates the Light property with the second attack (the Extra Attack granted at level 5) to allow for using the Bonus Action.
EDIT: I got ninja'd :D
This^!
How i see it is that the light property does not restrict how many times you can use it. The way it is written seems like if you have multiple (extra) attacks per turn then you can attack again with an off hand weapon as long as you have the bonus actions available to fill that role.
For example:
I use my first attack and the light property is triggered and i follow up with Nick to free up the BA
Then i use my second attack which also triggers the light property again- and now my BA is free- which allows me to hit with my off hand weapon on the same turn for a 4 th attack as a BA.
To me this seems to be RAW^ but i see a lot of comments that suggest that to be able to pull off this 4th attack you need the Dual Wielder Feat - which i don't quite see the need for in this case
[...] I attack again with extra attack with the short sword which is a light weapon that allows me to hit again with another light weapon as my bonus action. Since my BA has been freed up above then i should just be able to go ahead and launch this bonus action hit with my scimitar to complete the 4 attacks in my round. Right?
I think @Avinush is asking whether a level 5 Fighter, when taking the Attack action, activates the Light property with the second attack (the Extra Attack granted at level 5) to allow for using the Bonus Action.
EDIT: I got ninja'd :D
This^!
How i see it is that the light property does not restrict how many times you can use it. The way it is written seems like if you have multiple (extra) attacks per turn then you can attack again with an off hand weapon as long as you have the bonus actions available to fill that role.
For example:
I use my first attack and the light property is triggered and i follow up with Nick to free up the BA
Then i use my second attack which also triggers the light property again- and now my BA is free- which allows me to hit with my off hand weapon on the same turn for a 4 th attack as a BA.
To me this seems to be RAW^ but i see a lot of comments that suggest that to be able to pull off this 4th attack you need the Dual Wielder Feat - which i don't quite see the need for in this case
The Nick property is very clear: "You can make this extra attack only once per turn." It's only the fact the Dual Wielder allows its own bespoke bonus action that you're able to use it in addition to the attack granted by the Light property (and modified by the Nick property).
[...] I attack again with extra attack with the short sword which is a light weapon that allows me to hit again with another light weapon as my bonus action. Since my BA has been freed up above then i should just be able to go ahead and launch this bonus action hit with my scimitar to complete the 4 attacks in my round. Right?
I think @Avinush is asking whether a level 5 Fighter, when taking the Attack action, activates the Light property with the second attack (the Extra Attack granted at level 5) to allow for using the Bonus Action.
EDIT: I got ninja'd :D
This^!
How i see it is that the light property does not restrict how many times you can use it. The way it is written seems like if you have multiple (extra) attacks per turn then you can attack again with an off hand weapon as long as you have the bonus actions available to fill that role.
For example:
I use my first attack and the light property is triggered and i follow up with Nick to free up the BA
Then i use my second attack which also triggers the light property again- and now my BA is free- which allows me to hit with my off hand weapon on the same turn for a 4 th attack as a BA.
To me this seems to be RAW^ but i see a lot of comments that suggest that to be able to pull off this 4th attack you need the Dual Wielder Feat - which i don't quite see the need for in this case
It still sounds like you didn't fully read my explanation.
Let me quote myself and put the important part in underlined and bold italic so you can't miss it:
Perhaps you might argue that it means you can only benefit from Nick once per turn, but the way it is written sounds to me like it says you can only benefit from Light once per turn. It says this extra attack can be made once per turn, and Nick doesn't give an extra attack. It modifies the extra attack from the Light property, so it can only refer to the Light extra attack.
Now let me go through your scenario step by step:
You use your first attack and the Light property is triggered, giving you an extra attack as a bonus action
You use your second weapon with Nick to consume the extra attack but without consuming the bonus action
You use your level 5 Extra Attack feature to attack with the Light weapon again
You want to now use your Bonus action because you think your 3rd attack triggered Light again. At that point your DM will point to Nick and say that Nick clarifies that your Light property has been modified to only once per turn. Alternatively: You have the Dual Wielder Feat and explain to your DM that the Dual Wielder Feat gives you another source of a bonus action attack that is separate from Light and Nick. Yay, thanks to the feat you get a 4th attack!
How i see it is that the light property does not restrict how many times you can use it. The way it is written seems like if you have multiple (extra) attacks per turn then you can attack again with an off hand weapon as long as you have the bonus actions available to fill that role.
For example:
I use my first attack and the light property is triggered and i follow up with Nick to free up the BA
Then i use my second attack which also triggers the light property again- and now my BA is free- which allows me to hit with my off hand weapon on the same turn for a 4 th attack as a BA.
To me this seems to be RAW^ but i see a lot of comments that suggest that to be able to pull off this 4th attack you need the Dual Wielder Feat - which i don't quite see the need for in this case
As has been said above, Nick modifies the Light property when you use it.
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
"This extra attack" refers to the aforementioned "extra attack of the Light property". Therefore, if you use Nick, you can only make the extra attack of the Light Property once per turn.
(And no, you can't get around it by taking your Light bonus action attack first, because then your attempt to use Nick fails, among other reasons.)
Meanwhile, Dual Wielder says:
Enhanced Dual Wielding. When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a weapon that has the Light property, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn with a different weapon, which must be a Melee weapon that lacks the Two-Handed property. You don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative.
Which triggers off attacking with a Light weapon, but is not the extra attack of the Light property, but a separate entity.
This is, again, incredibly fussy interpretation, and it's perfectly reasonable to not understand it easily, but it is what the rules say.
I think we're all getting lost by how often ""extra attack" is used in the phb. When I've referred to it in my post, i was referring to the literal class feature that grants you another attack on your turn at level 5. Once again I'm not questioning how many times you can Nick the opponent. To me that writing is very clear. It seems that you can nick only once per turn period.
I've copied and pasted the text straight from my phb below for the light property:
Light
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative. For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
It says- "when you make an attack", vs the "once per turn when you make an attack". By this writing it seems like you can use the light property multiple times per turn once you have the Bonus Action to fill that role? No?
You use your first attack and the Light property is triggered, giving you an extra attack as a bonus action
You use your second weapon with Nick to consume the extra attack but without consuming the bonus action
You use your level 5 Extra Attack feature to attack with the Light weapon again
You want to now use your Bonus action because you think your 3rd attack triggered Light again. At that point your DM will point to Nick and say that Nick clarifies that your Light property has been modified to only once per turn. Alternatively: You have the Dual Wielder Feat and explain to your DM that the Dual Wielder Feat gives you another source of a bonus action attack that is separate from Light and Nick. Yay, thanks to the feat you get a 4th attack!
This is all correct, but it should be made clear that you don't need the extra attack in step 3 to use the Dual Wielder bonus action attack.
Once you make the attack in step 1, you have two available bonus action attacks: one from Light, and one from DW. You could normally only take advantage of one, but Nick lets you use the Light additional attack without consuming the bonus action, so it's available for the DW attack.
(And you still shouldn't need to be a pedantic rules nerd to figure out how two-weapon fighting works. This is not my number 1 gripe about the 2024 combat rules, but it's probably my #1 new gripe.)
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Using the nick weapon property does the weapon with it have to be the first weapon used or could it be the second weapon used.
Does the nick property grant the second primary action or must it be the second primary action using the light weapon property action.
Can it go vex, nick + bonus attack?
Or can it go nick, vex + bonus attack?
There is a lack of clarity as to whether the Nick weapon needs to be the one that makes the additional attack, or the one that grants the additional attack.
If it's the one that grants the attack, then it doesn't matter if you make other attacks between attacking with the nick weapon and taking the additional attack.
Edit: If it's the one that makes the attack, it also doesn't matter if there are other attacks after the enabling attack and before the additional attack.
Dropping is equivalent to sheathing and drawing, per the rules. Therefore, per the rules you CANNOT drop a weapon, draw a weapon (2nd free action thus Utilize action) AND attack on that round. The example scenario contradicts the printed rules.
My house rule will be that dropping a weapon is NOT the same a sheathing- dropping will be completely free, thereby allowing the “counted” free action of drawing with an attack
The Attack action gives additional weapon interactions, one for each attack you make as part of it.
The example scenario is:
My understanding is that you need to start the Attack action using a Light weapon, for example, in your main hand and without the Nick Mastery (Vex, in your example). Then, you can make the extra attack with the weapon that has Nick Mastery.
Unlike most other masteries, Nick doesn't say "with this weapon" anywhere. That language is left out.
It seems that this is so that the Light+Nick weapon is order-independent with other Light weapons in the same attack action.
Personally, I think this solves the issue where one DM might interpret the Nick needing to come first (assuming the Nick is needed up-front to "activate" the combo), and another DM might say "well, you have to have it in the off-hand for it to work" (assuming the Nick has to be an "even lighter" weapon to make it fast enough to go "at the same time"). This just steps around that question. If you have Nick, you get to make the 2 light weapon attacks in the same action, instead of using a BA. Simple.
"You can either equip or unequip one weapon..." And: "Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it."
So your example must be corrected:
The free interaction is independent of the attack action. You can drop a weapon and Dash.
The weapon interactions of the attack action are in addition to the free interaction.
Ok ok ok I'm still a teensy bit confused here.
Why do you need the Dual Wielder feat to add on the extra attack? Most of the comments here seem to agree that you need this feat to add on the extra attack to make it 4 attacks per turn.
I'll use an example:
Fighter level 5 wielding a shortsword and a scimitar. At this level i also have the extra attack class feature.
I attack once with the short sword and in the same action i use the scimitar's nick property to get in another attack. Now my BA is free.
I attack again with extra attack with the short sword which is a light weapon that allows me to hit again with another light weapon as my bonus action. Since my BA has been freed up above then i should just be able to go ahead and launch this bonus action hit with my scimitar to complete the 4 attacks in my round. Right?
If this is the case then why do i need the dual weilder feat? Yes i get that it allows you to bonus action attack with another one handed weapon that doesn't have the light property but it isn't a necessity to fulfill the 4 attacks per round is it?
I think the way it's written is not entirely clear, but I think the intent is that the Nick property changes the Light attack from "as a bonus action" to "as part of the attack action but still only once per turn". See how it is written, with emphasis mine:
Perhaps you might argue that it means you can only benefit from Nick once per turn, but the way it is written sounds to me like it says you can only benefit from Light once per turn. It says this extra attack can be made once per turn, and Nick doesn't give an extra attack it modifies the extra attack from the Light property, so it can only refer to the Light extra attack.
You're correct. Nick doesn't give you an additional attack. It modifies the Light property, and part of its modification is limiting the attack of the light property to once per turn.
(If you had two bonus actions, which is AFAIK not possible, you could trigger the Light property twice if Nick isn't involved.)
This is all more requiring of fiddly rules reading than I think it should be, and there's nowhere that puts it all together for you.
I'm not arguing whether you can use the Nick property more than once per turn. It states that you can only use it once per turn. What i want to know is:
How does the dual wielder feat give you the 4th attack on your turn at level 5 onwards (see my previous post)? According to the rules as written, it seems like you should already be able to make this 4th attack on your bonus action because it is triggered by making an attack with a light weapon as part of your second or extra attack class feature.
The response you quoted explains it -- the Nick property modifies the Light property so that its attack can be used only once per turn.
See my post above for a slightly more detailed breakdown.
I'm not sure if the question asked by @Avinush was totally answered by @DerManiac and @jl8e.
This part, specifically:
I think @Avinush is asking whether a level 5 Fighter, when taking the Attack action, activates the Light property with the second attack (the Extra Attack granted at level 5) to allow for using the Bonus Action.
EDIT: I got ninja'd :D
This^!
How i see it is that the light property does not restrict how many times you can use it. The way it is written seems like if you have multiple (extra) attacks per turn then you can attack again with an off hand weapon as long as you have the bonus actions available to fill that role.
For example:
I use my first attack and the light property is triggered and i follow up with Nick to free up the BA
Then i use my second attack which also triggers the light property again- and now my BA is free- which allows me to hit with my off hand weapon on the same turn for a 4 th attack as a BA.
To me this seems to be RAW^ but i see a lot of comments that suggest that to be able to pull off this 4th attack you need the Dual Wielder Feat - which i don't quite see the need for in this case
The Nick property is very clear: "You can make this extra attack only once per turn." It's only the fact the Dual Wielder allows its own bespoke bonus action that you're able to use it in addition to the attack granted by the Light property (and modified by the Nick property).
It still sounds like you didn't fully read my explanation.
Let me quote myself and put the important part in underlined and bold italic so you can't miss it:
Now let me go through your scenario step by step:
As has been said above, Nick modifies the Light property when you use it.
"This extra attack" refers to the aforementioned "extra attack of the Light property". Therefore, if you use Nick, you can only make the extra attack of the Light Property once per turn.
(And no, you can't get around it by taking your Light bonus action attack first, because then your attempt to use Nick fails, among other reasons.)
Meanwhile, Dual Wielder says:
Which triggers off attacking with a Light weapon, but is not the extra attack of the Light property, but a separate entity.
This is, again, incredibly fussy interpretation, and it's perfectly reasonable to not understand it easily, but it is what the rules say.
And I'm judging them hard for doing it this way.
I think we're all getting lost by how often ""extra attack" is used in the phb. When I've referred to it in my post, i was referring to the literal class feature that grants you another attack on your turn at level 5. Once again I'm not questioning how many times you can Nick the opponent. To me that writing is very clear. It seems that you can nick only once per turn period.
I've copied and pasted the text straight from my phb below for the light property:
Light
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative. For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
It says- "when you make an attack", vs the "once per turn when you make an attack". By this writing it seems like you can use the light property multiple times per turn once you have the Bonus Action to fill that role? No?
This is all correct, but it should be made clear that you don't need the extra attack in step 3 to use the Dual Wielder bonus action attack.
Once you make the attack in step 1, you have two available bonus action attacks: one from Light, and one from DW. You could normally only take advantage of one, but Nick lets you use the Light additional attack without consuming the bonus action, so it's available for the DW attack.
(And you still shouldn't need to be a pedantic rules nerd to figure out how two-weapon fighting works. This is not my number 1 gripe about the 2024 combat rules, but it's probably my #1 new gripe.)