So, it looks like in 2024 rules, silver weapons will deal an extra damage die whenever you score a critical hit with it against any shapeshifter. Additionally, stone golems no longer require adamantine or magic weapons to bypass the damage resistance.
Mechanically, I understand wanting to deal with the martial caster divide. On the other hand, I feel having these special weapon materials should do more than give a 5% chance of doing a little extra damage. Werebeasts should not be unbeatable by a seasoned adventuring party in my humble opinion, but a silvered weapon should still make a huge difference in how a fight against one plays out. Now, we've not seen any 2024 werebeasts, so maybe they'll be like the ones from Van Richten's Guide where they can constantly regenerate if you don't hit them with spells or silver. But if the only advantage of an adamantine weapon is that it deals a little more damage against a golem sometimes, if I anticipate fighting a golem, I'm not going to feel at any kind of disadvantage for not having such a weapon.
Well, lycanthropes are/were immune to non-magical weapons that aren't silvered. Golems are/were immune to non-magical weapons that aren't adamantine. So already a common magic weapon is better than a silvered or adamantine one for the purposes of overcoming immunity since it works on more creatures than the specific non-magic metal.
In 2024, they are not only buffed by becoming Magical, but retain a slight advantage against the creatures that used to be weak to them.
It is more than "a 5% chance to deal extra damage," and does make a "huge difference." That difference being 100% of the martial's damage. Dealing 0 damage on a hit is a big disadvantage.
As for my thoughts, while it does remove a little bit of the flavor tying the mechanics to the lore, it is overall a great change for the purposes of simplifying the rules without oversimplifying anything.
Sadly no as all 2024 monsters released so far just have resistance to Piercing, Slashing and Bludgeoning without any caveat that magic weapons do normal damage. So far it is actually just a huge nerf to martials and a boost to casters as they can more easily choose different damage types. I think I will homebrew it so silvered weapons do an extra damage die of damage on every hit on a shapechanger. See that would be an incentive to switch to your silvered weapon! Dunno with Adamantine weapons yet but might homebrew them to be the only type of weapons that can pierce resistance!
Sadly no as all 2024 monsters released so far just have resistance to Piercing, Slashing and Bludgeoning without any caveat that magic weapons do normal damage. So far it is actually just a huge nerf to martials and a boost to casters as they can more easily choose different damage types. I think I will homebrew it so silvered weapons do an extra damage die of damage on every hit on a shapechanger. See that would be an incentive to switch to your silvered weapon! Dunno with Adamantine weapons yet but might homebrew them to be the only type of weapons that can pierce resistance!
It’s not necessarily a “huge nerf”, since while the Fire Elemental has general PSB resistance, the succubus and incubus don’t have any PSB resistance. We’ll have to wait for the MM to really gauge the impact.
Yeah, I was referring to what I've seen thus far of the 2024 monster statblocks. I'm aware of what they were in 2014 (and for werebeasts, what they were in Van Richten's Guide). Actually, the only change I'd make to Van Richten's Guide is that instead of spells also stopping werebeast regeneration, a critical hit will do the job. That way a group of martials could still down a werewolf without silver, but it'll be much, much tougher.
This weapon or piece of ammunition is made of adamantine, one of the hardest substances in existence. Whenever this weapon or piece of ammunition hits an object, the hit is a Critical Hit.
Does this imply that if a rogue hit an enemy with an attack with an adamantine melee weapon/ammo that triggered sneak attack damage, that the SA damage would be doubled every time?
Does this imply that if a rogue hit an enemy with an attack with an adamantine melee weapon/ammo that triggered sneak attack damage, that the SA damage would be doubled every time?
No because Sneak Attack only deal an extra 1d6 damage to creature you hit, not object.
Does this imply that if a rogue hit an enemy with an attack with an adamantine melee weapon/ammo that triggered sneak attack damage, that the SA damage would be doubled every time?
No because Sneak Attack only deal an extra 1d6 damage to creature you hit, not object.
I wasn’t referring to objects, but rather the idea that if you are a rogue and you get a critical that deals sneak attack damage, the dice of the weapon AND the sneak attack are doubled, then modifiers added. My question is: wouldn’t adamantine (as described above) work the same way as rolling a 20? Why wouldn’t adamantine be the weapon that every rogue would want, because it scores crits every time it hits, effectively (almost) doubling the damage output of the class.
Adamantine only crits objects. Creatures are not objects.
Creature
Any being in the game, including a player’s character, is a creature. See also “Creature Type.”
Object
An object is a nonliving, distinct thing. Composite things, like buildings, comprise more than one object. See also “Breaking Objects.”
Level 1: Sneak Attack
You know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack roll if you have Advantage on the roll and the attack uses a Finesse or a Ranged weapon. The extra damage’s type is the same as the weapon’s type.
This weapon or piece of ammunition is made of adamantine, one of the hardest substances in existence. Whenever this weapon or piece of ammunition hits an object, the hit is a Critical Hit.
I wasn’t referring to objects, but rather the idea that if you are a rogue and you get a critical that deals sneak attack damage, the dice of the weapon AND the sneak attack are doubled, then modifiers added. My question is: wouldn’t adamantine (as described above) work the same way as rolling a 20? Why wouldn’t adamantine be the weapon that every rogue would want, because it scores crits every time it hits, effectively (almost) doubling the damage output of the class.
A hit with an Adamantine Weapon is only a critical hit if against an object, not a creature. And Sneak Attack only deal extra damage to a creature.
For those reasons, the effect from Sneak Attack and Adamantine Weapon are incompatible.
Adamantine only crits objects. Creatures are not objects.
Creature
Any being in the game, including a player’s character, is a creature. See also “Creature Type.”
Object
An object is a nonliving, distinct thing. Composite things, like buildings, comprise more than one object. See also “Breaking Objects.”
Level 1: Sneak Attack
You know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack roll if you have Advantage on the roll and the attack uses a Finesse or a Ranged weapon. The extra damage’s type is the same as the weapon’s type.
This weapon or piece of ammunition is made of adamantine, one of the hardest substances in existence. Whenever this weapon or piece of ammunition hits an object, the hit is a Critical Hit.
Well, that will teach me to not fully read what I posted. Thank you for the correction everyone, I have no idea how I missed that.
So, it looks like in 2024 rules, silver weapons will deal an extra damage die whenever you score a critical hit with it against any shapeshifter. Additionally, stone golems no longer require adamantine or magic weapons to bypass the damage resistance.
Mechanically, I understand wanting to deal with the martial caster divide. On the other hand, I feel having these special weapon materials should do more than give a 5% chance of doing a little extra damage. Werebeasts should not be unbeatable by a seasoned adventuring party in my humble opinion, but a silvered weapon should still make a huge difference in how a fight against one plays out. Now, we've not seen any 2024 werebeasts, so maybe they'll be like the ones from Van Richten's Guide where they can constantly regenerate if you don't hit them with spells or silver. But if the only advantage of an adamantine weapon is that it deals a little more damage against a golem sometimes, if I anticipate fighting a golem, I'm not going to feel at any kind of disadvantage for not having such a weapon.
What is everyone's thoughts on this?
Well, lycanthropes are/were immune to non-magical weapons that aren't silvered. Golems are/were immune to non-magical weapons that aren't adamantine. So already a common magic weapon is better than a silvered or adamantine one for the purposes of overcoming immunity since it works on more creatures than the specific non-magic metal.
In 2024, they are not only buffed by becoming Magical, but retain a slight advantage against the creatures that used to be weak to them.
It is more than "a 5% chance to deal extra damage," and does make a "huge difference." That difference being 100% of the martial's damage. Dealing 0 damage on a hit is a big disadvantage.
As for my thoughts, while it does remove a little bit of the flavor tying the mechanics to the lore, it is overall a great change for the purposes of simplifying the rules without oversimplifying anything.
Sadly no as all 2024 monsters released so far just have resistance to Piercing, Slashing and Bludgeoning without any caveat that magic weapons do normal damage. So far it is actually just a huge nerf to martials and a boost to casters as they can more easily choose different damage types. I think I will homebrew it so silvered weapons do an extra damage die of damage on every hit on a shapechanger. See that would be an incentive to switch to your silvered weapon! Dunno with Adamantine weapons yet but might homebrew them to be the only type of weapons that can pierce resistance!
It’s not necessarily a “huge nerf”, since while the Fire Elemental has general PSB resistance, the succubus and incubus don’t have any PSB resistance. We’ll have to wait for the MM to really gauge the impact.
Yeah, I was referring to what I've seen thus far of the 2024 monster statblocks. I'm aware of what they were in 2014 (and for werebeasts, what they were in Van Richten's Guide). Actually, the only change I'd make to Van Richten's Guide is that instead of spells also stopping werebeast regeneration, a critical hit will do the job. That way a group of martials could still down a werewolf without silver, but it'll be much, much tougher.
Adamantine Weapon Question: The 2024 DMG states:
Adamantine Weapon
Weapon (Any Ammunition or Melee Weapon), Uncommon
This weapon or piece of ammunition is made of adamantine, one of the hardest substances in existence. Whenever this weapon or piece of ammunition hits an object, the hit is a Critical Hit.
Does this imply that if a rogue hit an enemy with an attack with an adamantine melee weapon/ammo that triggered sneak attack damage, that the SA damage would be doubled every time?
No because Sneak Attack only deal an extra 1d6 damage to creature you hit, not object.
Adamantine only crits objects. Creatures are not objects.
Level 1: Sneak Attack
You know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack roll if you have Advantage on the roll and the attack uses a Finesse or a Ranged weapon. The extra damage’s type is the same as the weapon’s type.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
A hit with an Adamantine Weapon is only a critical hit if against an object, not a creature. And Sneak Attack only deal extra damage to a creature.
For those reasons, the effect from Sneak Attack and Adamantine Weapon are incompatible.
Well, that will teach me to not fully read what I posted. Thank you for the correction everyone, I have no idea how I missed that.
No big deal, it happens to all of us. :)
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master