You weave together threads of shadow to create a sword of solidified gloom in your hand. This magic sword lasts until the spell ends. It counts as a simple melee weapon with which you are proficient. It deals 2d8 psychic damage on a hit and has the finesse, light, and thrown properties (range 20/60). In addition, when you use the sword to attack a target that is in dim light or darkness, you make the attack roll with advantage.
If you drop the weapon or throw it, it dissipates at the end of the turn. Thereafter, while the spell persists, you can use a bonus action to cause the sword to reappear in your hand.
Here are the questions
This Spell creates a weapon, could this weapon be handed to someone else? if its not dropped or thrown, but handed to lets say the parties rogue.... could they use it as a melee weapon?
Could you use this weapon as the material components in a spell like booming blade or green flame blade?
My opinion is that you must be holding the Shadow Blade for it to remain. This is based on the part that reads: "If you drop the weapon or throw it". Yes I know handing it over isn't really the same thing, but it is close enough to it that I would consider it the same thing mechanically. Theoretically, that individual to which it is handed would still have till the end of the turn to use it, but that probably wouldn't be enough time to do so. Now when it comes to using it as the material components in weapon-base spells. The two examples you listed have in their material component "a weapon", the spell clearly states in the line I used before that Shadow Blade is a "weapon", so there should be no problem to doing that.
As SladeTracey said, the intent is clearly that giving it to someone else counts as dropping it even if it doesn't explicitly say that. It is a weapon and does pair with GFB and BB. That combination works really well with Arcane Trickster rogues who can cast the spells themselves.
The difference could be significant if, for example, there was an unarmed Rogue next to you who had Readied their Attack with the trigger of "when the wizard hands me a weapon." Their attack would happen before the end of the wizard's turn, would it not? Of course, without the ability to hand it back it would still vanish from the Rogue's hand at the end of the Wizard's turn.
However...if this would work, would the Rogue be able to use their Proficiency bonus for the attack? The spell states the caster has proficiency with Shadow Blade, but not anyone else.
I do think that is possible if you ready an Action. It's just highly unlikely. However-
Rogues do not gain proficiency with the Shadow Blade Weapon, and I would argue that casting the spell is what gives the caster proficiency with it, so having the spell on your list doesn't give you proficiency with the weapon.
So the Rogue would not add their Proficiency Bonus to the attack roll. Unless they also have their Concentration on their own Shadow Blade Spell, then I would say they can use their Proficiency Bonus. Of notice is that the Shadow Blade weapon has the light property which could mean a single possible chance to Two-Weapon Fighting with two of them. Once again though, this situation is highly unlikely, it also uses a lot of resources for one attack.
You can’t. Holy weapon says it Imbues the weapon, Shadow Blade says it creates a weapon. Obviously, that is different. You can hand any plain old weapon around.
And, I say you can pass around a Shadow Blade. It says you can’t drop it or throw it, not that you can’t hand it to someone. If I give you my pencil from 5ft away, did I throw it to you? Did I drop it? No. No I didn’t. It is also a Solid Object, and a Simple Weapon, therefore someone else can hold it, and as a Simple Weapon, anyone proficient with them can use it Proficiently.
Drop has many official definitions, including to reduce in number, to abandon, etc. That's why the only definition that matters is your DMs. But let's say it can be handed to someone. It's cast as a bonus action. Standard action would then be spent on the "use an object" action. Same for the person that it is being handed to. That's two turns being spent handing it over. And no, this could not count as the "free" using an object as part of another action, like drawing a sword as part of an attack. It requires two players to coordinate across the combat area for a handoff across different initiative numbers.
Here is the scenario .... A fighter, A warlock, and Rogue go to jail ... all weapons are taken .... a prison fight starts ... the fighter and rogue are limited to there fist ... However the Warlock still has its magic. The warlock knows the shadow blade spell and is pact of the blade. On the Warlocks Turn he uses his pact weapon to create a long sword... and casts shadow blade as bonus action. The Fighter than uses there action to take the Pact Weapon long sword and the Rogue uses there action to take the Shadow Blade.
Effectively in one round of combat all 3 are now ready to fight. Since both weapons wont dissipate until 1 min they should have 9 more rounds of effective combat.
When the Warlocks turn comes around all they can really do to help in this fight is use a cantrip like eldritch blast. But the Fighter now has a +1 long sword which could be wielded 1 or 2 handed. and the Rogue has a Finesse weapon capable of sneak attack.
Yes, it does. What about it wouldn’t? You hand over a summoned longsword, and a Solid Shadow Blade. Both go away in one minute, os now you have one minuet if fighting, hoping you can take out the enemy in 10 rounds or less. Nothing doesn’t make sense about this.
I do think that is possible if you ready an Action. It's just highly unlikely. However-
Rogues do not gain proficiency with the Shadow Blade Weapon, and I would argue that casting the spell is what gives the caster proficiency with it, so having the spell on your list doesn't give you proficiency with the weapon.
So the Rogue would not add their Proficiency Bonus to the attack roll. Unless they also have their Concentration on their own Shadow Blade Spell, then I would say they can use their Proficiency Bonus. Of notice is that the Shadow Blade weapon has the light property which could mean a single possible chance to Two-Weapon Fighting with two of them. Once again though, this situation is highly unlikely, it also uses a lot of resources for one attack.
The Shadow Blade is a simple melee weapon (as stated in the rules). Rogues are proficient with simple weapons. Hence, Rogues are proficient with the Shadow Blade.
I got an Eldritch Knight fighter that uses shadow blade in caves and shady places. At lvl 13 it is really worth using, casting it at 3rd lvl as a bonus action, 3 attacks with advantage, action surge, 3 more attacks with advantage. I am glad i got this spell.
I realize I'm late to the party, but I would like to note that the range of self refers only to the casting. You can cast Holy Weapon on a weapon that is not in your possession; you may not cast Shadow Blade to form a weapon in an empty hand other than your own.
The confusion seems to be from the fact that most spells don't create an item, and those that do don't seem to have a range of touch (I can't find/think of any offhand). This one is best left in the hands of your local DM, although I will note that in any other instance, the internet loves to say that if it doesn't specifically state that it happens, then it doesn't. The spell goes as far as telling you exactly two things that will cause the blade to disappear prematurely. It does not state that handing it, dare I say giving it to a person and intentionally keeping concentration on it so that they can benefit from its use is not listed as one of those things, nor do they give the catch-all of "if it leaves your hand", or some other interpretation of it. They spell out two specific things that make it stop. As a DM, I would definitely allow the previously mentioned blade pact warlock to help her fighter and rogue allies in this fashion, as long as the rogue's interests, or at least this fight, is in line with what her patron wishes.
Shadow blade disappears at the end of warlock turn if he doesn’t have it
Not necessarily. It would be a DM call but the text of the spell says:
"If you drop the weapon or throw it, it dissipates at the end of the turn."
Dropping or throwing are not the same as giving the weapon to another character and the spell does NOT say it disappears if it isn't in your possession, only if you drop or throw it. It would be up to the DM to decide if they want to treat giving a shadow blade to another character as dropping it ... but I would think that would tend to be an extreme interpretation. Otherwise the spell says it creates a simple weapon with the light, finesse and thrown properties. The weapon has these properties not the spell so if a character is proficient with simple weapons then they could use it.
The spell has to specify the caster is proficient with it since there are caster classes that are not proficient with simple weapons.
"If you drop the weapon or throw it, it dissipates at the end of the turn."
Dropping or throwing are not the same as giving the weapon to another character and the spell does NOT say it disappears if it isn't in your possession, only if you drop or throw it.
But you have to be lifting the sword as you hand it off, or at least holding it at a steady elevation, right? ;)
Pedantry aside, I feel like it doesn't really hurt the balance of the spell and the game to share it with an ally. After all, it is a concentration spell and even if you cast it at 7th level, the damage is in line with other spells you could be concentrating on at that level regardless of whether you are doing the damage or someone else is. And I generally try to foster teamwork and team tactics in gameplay. If someone at my table tried this logic with me, I would probably allow it, but I would make fun of them mercilessly for it.
Here is the scenario .... A fighter, A warlock, and Rogue go to jail ... all weapons are taken .... a prison fight starts ... the fighter and rogue are limited to there fist ... However the Warlock still has its magic. The warlock knows the shadow blade spell and is pact of the blade. On the Warlocks Turn he uses his pact weapon to create a long sword... and casts shadow blade as bonus action. The Fighter than uses there action to take the Pact Weapon long sword and the Rogue uses there action to take the Shadow Blade.
Effectively in one round of combat all 3 are now ready to fight. Since both weapons wont dissipate until 1 min they should have 9 more rounds of effective combat.
When the Warlocks turn comes around all they can really do to help in this fight is use a cantrip like eldritch blast. But the Fighter now has a +1 long sword which could be wielded 1 or 2 handed. and the Rogue has a Finesse weapon capable of sneak attack.
Does this logic make sense?
Even though this is a little rule bending, I think it shows great imagination and teamplay. I would let it slide with an extra helping of XP.
I gave this one a good 10 days of thought. I am concerned. The shadow blade hand-off should be considered an action. I played around with the idea of free-action dropping the blade on the side of your square, and free-action letting another character pick it up.
I think there are mechanical problems when you let an item leave your own square without an action (hand the item off, toss the item to another player, receive item from another player.) One of the characters would at least have to make a ready-action ("On Buddy-Character's turn, I hand him the item.")
I think I break the game when I pair my Paladin of Mystery with a Lightfoot Fighter Assassin and try a mid-turn blade handoff. Basically, if we achieve surprise (Easy with Mystery Paladin) then the halfling gets full extra attacks with up to 5d8, critical. I did not factor for the Halfling gaining advantage, but it may be possible to ensure those strikes at advantage.
Great, great thought on the blade hand-off though. I like the idea. Might be allowed if the two characters roll next to each other in the initiative order, or if the halfling passes a difficult acrobatics check.
The Shadow Blade Spell reads as follows....
Here are the questions
My opinion is that you must be holding the Shadow Blade for it to remain. This is based on the part that reads: "If you drop the weapon or throw it". Yes I know handing it over isn't really the same thing, but it is close enough to it that I would consider it the same thing mechanically. Theoretically, that individual to which it is handed would still have till the end of the turn to use it, but that probably wouldn't be enough time to do so. Now when it comes to using it as the material components in weapon-base spells. The two examples you listed have in their material component "a weapon", the spell clearly states in the line I used before that Shadow Blade is a "weapon", so there should be no problem to doing that.
As SladeTracey said, the intent is clearly that giving it to someone else counts as dropping it even if it doesn't explicitly say that. It is a weapon and does pair with GFB and BB. That combination works really well with Arcane Trickster rogues who can cast the spells themselves.
The difference could be significant if, for example, there was an unarmed Rogue next to you who had Readied their Attack with the trigger of "when the wizard hands me a weapon." Their attack would happen before the end of the wizard's turn, would it not? Of course, without the ability to hand it back it would still vanish from the Rogue's hand at the end of the Wizard's turn.
However...if this would work, would the Rogue be able to use their Proficiency bonus for the attack? The spell states the caster has proficiency with Shadow Blade, but not anyone else.
I do think that is possible if you ready an Action. It's just highly unlikely. However-
Rogues do not gain proficiency with the Shadow Blade Weapon, and I would argue that casting the spell is what gives the caster proficiency with it, so having the spell on your list doesn't give you proficiency with the weapon.
So the Rogue would not add their Proficiency Bonus to the attack roll. Unless they also have their Concentration on their own Shadow Blade Spell, then I would say they can use their Proficiency Bonus. Of notice is that the Shadow Blade weapon has the light property which could mean a single possible chance to Two-Weapon Fighting with two of them. Once again though, this situation is highly unlikely, it also uses a lot of resources for one attack.
The spell range is "self", so it can't be given. Compare to the spell Holy Weapon with a range of "touch", which can be.
You can’t. Holy weapon says it Imbues the weapon, Shadow Blade says it creates a weapon. Obviously, that is different. You can hand any plain old weapon around.
And, I say you can pass around a Shadow Blade. It says you can’t drop it or throw it, not that you can’t hand it to someone. If I give you my pencil from 5ft away, did I throw it to you? Did I drop it? No. No I didn’t. It is also a Solid Object, and a Simple Weapon, therefore someone else can hold it, and as a Simple Weapon, anyone proficient with them can use it Proficiently.
Extended Signature! Yay! https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/3153-extended-signature-thread?page=2#c21
Haven’t used this account in forever. Still a big fan of crawling claws.
Drop has many official definitions, including to reduce in number, to abandon, etc. That's why the only definition that matters is your DMs. But let's say it can be handed to someone. It's cast as a bonus action. Standard action would then be spent on the "use an object" action. Same for the person that it is being handed to. That's two turns being spent handing it over. And no, this could not count as the "free" using an object as part of another action, like drawing a sword as part of an attack. It requires two players to coordinate across the combat area for a handoff across different initiative numbers.
Here is the scenario .... A fighter, A warlock, and Rogue go to jail ... all weapons are taken .... a prison fight starts ... the fighter and rogue are limited to there fist ... However the Warlock still has its magic. The warlock knows the shadow blade spell and is pact of the blade. On the Warlocks Turn he uses his pact weapon to create a long sword... and casts shadow blade as bonus action. The Fighter than uses there action to take the Pact Weapon long sword and the Rogue uses there action to take the Shadow Blade.
Effectively in one round of combat all 3 are now ready to fight. Since both weapons wont dissipate until 1 min they should have 9 more rounds of effective combat.
When the Warlocks turn comes around all they can really do to help in this fight is use a cantrip like eldritch blast. But the Fighter now has a +1 long sword which could be wielded 1 or 2 handed. and the Rogue has a Finesse weapon capable of sneak attack.
Does this logic make sense?
Yes, it does. What about it wouldn’t? You hand over a summoned longsword, and a Solid Shadow Blade. Both go away in one minute, os now you have one minuet if fighting, hoping you can take out the enemy in 10 rounds or less. Nothing doesn’t make sense about this.
Extended Signature! Yay! https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/3153-extended-signature-thread?page=2#c21
Haven’t used this account in forever. Still a big fan of crawling claws.
i dont know about you, but ive never seen a non boss fight go more than 9 rounds lol
The Shadow Blade is a simple melee weapon (as stated in the rules). Rogues are proficient with simple weapons. Hence, Rogues are proficient with the Shadow Blade.
Shadow blade disappears at the end of warlock turn if he doesn’t have it
I got an Eldritch Knight fighter that uses shadow blade in caves and shady places. At lvl 13 it is really worth using, casting it at 3rd lvl as a bonus action, 3 attacks with advantage, action surge, 3 more attacks with advantage. I am glad i got this spell.
This right here.
DICE FALL, EVERYONE ROCKS!
I realize I'm late to the party, but I would like to note that the range of self refers only to the casting. You can cast Holy Weapon on a weapon that is not in your possession; you may not cast Shadow Blade to form a weapon in an empty hand other than your own.
The confusion seems to be from the fact that most spells don't create an item, and those that do don't seem to have a range of touch (I can't find/think of any offhand). This one is best left in the hands of your local DM, although I will note that in any other instance, the internet loves to say that if it doesn't specifically state that it happens, then it doesn't. The spell goes as far as telling you exactly two things that will cause the blade to disappear prematurely. It does not state that handing it, dare I say giving it to a person and intentionally keeping concentration on it so that they can benefit from its use is not listed as one of those things, nor do they give the catch-all of "if it leaves your hand", or some other interpretation of it. They spell out two specific things that make it stop. As a DM, I would definitely allow the previously mentioned blade pact warlock to help her fighter and rogue allies in this fashion, as long as the rogue's interests, or at least this fight, is in line with what her patron wishes.
Not necessarily. It would be a DM call but the text of the spell says:
"If you drop the weapon or throw it, it dissipates at the end of the turn."
Dropping or throwing are not the same as giving the weapon to another character and the spell does NOT say it disappears if it isn't in your possession, only if you drop or throw it. It would be up to the DM to decide if they want to treat giving a shadow blade to another character as dropping it ... but I would think that would tend to be an extreme interpretation. Otherwise the spell says it creates a simple weapon with the light, finesse and thrown properties. The weapon has these properties not the spell so if a character is proficient with simple weapons then they could use it.
The spell has to specify the caster is proficient with it since there are caster classes that are not proficient with simple weapons.
But you have to be lifting the sword as you hand it off, or at least holding it at a steady elevation, right? ;)
Pedantry aside, I feel like it doesn't really hurt the balance of the spell and the game to share it with an ally. After all, it is a concentration spell and even if you cast it at 7th level, the damage is in line with other spells you could be concentrating on at that level regardless of whether you are doing the damage or someone else is. And I generally try to foster teamwork and team tactics in gameplay. If someone at my table tried this logic with me, I would probably allow it, but I would make fun of them mercilessly for it.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Even though this is a little rule bending, I think it shows great imagination and teamplay. I would let it slide with an extra helping of XP.
I gave this one a good 10 days of thought. I am concerned. The shadow blade hand-off should be considered an action. I played around with the idea of free-action dropping the blade on the side of your square, and free-action letting another character pick it up.
I think there are mechanical problems when you let an item leave your own square without an action (hand the item off, toss the item to another player, receive item from another player.) One of the characters would at least have to make a ready-action ("On Buddy-Character's turn, I hand him the item.")
I think I break the game when I pair my Paladin of Mystery with a Lightfoot Fighter Assassin and try a mid-turn blade handoff. Basically, if we achieve surprise (Easy with Mystery Paladin) then the halfling gets full extra attacks with up to 5d8, critical. I did not factor for the Halfling gaining advantage, but it may be possible to ensure those strikes at advantage.
Here is the Paladin of Mystery: https://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/The%20Paladin%20of%20Mystery
Great, great thought on the blade hand-off though. I like the idea. Might be allowed if the two characters roll next to each other in the initiative order, or if the halfling passes a difficult acrobatics check.
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