Hi guys, is there any information on wich tools (artisan's tools or other) I need to perform each craft.
In the phb it says you need an herbalism kit to craft potions but i don't see anywhere wich tools I need to craft the rest of the equipment, amor and weapons (incluiding magic ones).
I know you can obtain most of them by common sense (smith tools for a sword for example) but I would prefer to have precise information for each of the craftings as I don't know the composition of many of them and many may need multiple artisan's tools (a spear may need smith and woodcarver tools).
In the book are also greater detailed suggestions about time and cost to craft (both non-magical and magical).
Regardless, I would suggest giving it some thought and figuring out what you need to work on for each item (metal, leather, cloth, glass, etc), then figure out which tools make the most sense for that (and that you may not find a good match among the possible options).
Hi guys, is there any information on wich tools (artisan's tools or other) I need to perform each craft.
In the phb it says you need an herbalism kit to craft potions but i don't see anywhere wich tools I need to craft the rest of the equipment, amor and weapons (incluiding magic ones).
I know you can obtain most of them by common sense (smith tools for a sword for example) but I would prefer to have precise information for each of the craftings as I don't know the composition of many of them and many may need multiple artisan's tools (a spear may need smith and woodcarver tools).
Thanks for any help.
Basically, the entire crafting system in 5e was left up to a shoulder-shrug and "eh, if you want to craft items make up some kind of system and go with it." There aren't any "official" rules that go into enough detail to make it any kind of a viable system.
How long does it take? What does it cost? What tools and skills do you use? How difficult is it? What materials do you need? Where do you get those materials? Can you make magic weapons and armor, or do you need to make mundane weapons or armor and then visit an enchanter? Can you just do it anywhere? Or do you need a specific workshop? Can you make a profit off the activity in your downtime? Most of those questions are left to the discretion of your DM.
Basically, the entire crafting system in 5e was left up to a shoulder-shrug and "eh, if you want to craft items make up some kind of system and go with it." There aren't any "official" rules that go into enough detail to make it any kind of a viable system.
How long does it take? What does it cost? What tools and skills do you use? How difficult is it? What materials do you need? Where do you get those materials? Can you make magic weapons and armor, or do you need to make mundane weapons or armor and then visit an enchanter? Can you just do it anywhere? Or do you need a specific workshop? Can you make a profit off the activity in your downtime? Most of those questions are left to the discretion of your DM.
Right, but those sections are still hilariously vague.
"Proficient with tools related to the object" "might need access to special materials or locations" "expend raw materials worth half the item's value" [So, where do you get those raw materials? Are there rules for how much leather you can harvest from a wolf? How much ore you can extract from a mineral deposit? Then how do you smelt and refine it? Iron isn't the same as steel, does that matter? Do you just need metal, or also wood and leather for a sword grip?] "make any judgement calls regarding whether a character has the correct equipment" "The Magic Items Ingredients table suggests the challenge rating of a creature the characters need to face to acquire the materials"
So, essentially, it's saying "make up something you think is appropriate."
Here is a rough outline of what I generally do (based on the XGtE rules)
The idea is you string together the cost reductions into a mini-adventure for the players. Either you can come up with the things that they will need, or the player can
Target Cost based on rarity:
Uncommon: 400 gp
Rare: 4000
Very Rare: 40000
Legendary: 400000+
DC's Based on rarity (Easy Medium Hard Improbable):
U: 12/14/15/25
R: 13/15/17/28
VR: 14/16/19/31
L: 15/18/21/34
Cost Reductions (grant advantage on the roll if they have an applicable feature, like the Lizardfolk scavenge for harvesting resources)
Beat a 'Medium' encounter and make a survival check to harvest resources
E: 20%, M: 30%, H: 40%, I: 60%
Beat a 'Hard' encounter and make a survival check to harvest resources
E: 25%, M: 40%, H: 55%, I: 70%
Beat a 'Deadly' encounter and make a survival check to harvest resources
E: 30%, M: 55%, H: 75%, I: 90%
Make a tool based ability check, pay upfront 10%, ruin half on failure
E: contribute 10%, M: 20%, H: 30%, I: 50%
Make two adventure based ability check (acrobatics, nature, etc) with a damage penalty on failure (falling damage, natural hazard, etc)
Damage penalty applies immediately when a roll fails.
Rolls can be retried, with an appropriate time penalty
If both pass, calculate each result separately and add together
E: 0%, M: 10%, H: 20%, I: 40%
Damage penalties
U: 2d6
R: 3d8
VR: 4d10
L: 5d12
Make two social based ability checks (persuasion etc) to be able to contribute GP towards completion
GP is spent after each check, but only contributes towards completion if both pass.
E: 15%, M: 25%, H: 35%, I: 50% (no cost)
And you can't do the same thing for every contribution
Example: I want to make Goggles of Night as a level 3 character The mini adventure is as follows
Target cost is 400 gp
To make the glasses frame, buy 40gp worth of silver/iron and make a jeweler, tinker, or smith tools check. I got a 16, so I contribute 30% towards completion.
I need a special thread to sew everything together, so I make a Survival and then Acrobatics or Athletics check to find a special plant that I can harvest the fibers from. I got a 13 and 15, so I contribute 0% + 10% towards the cost, and do not take a failure penalty.
I go try to find a Darkling Elder to get a special powder for the lenses. I roll Investigation and Performance (they love art), I get a 14 and a 26. I contribute 25% of the cost by spending 100 gp in drinks in pubs to find the elder and then get an additional 50% contribution for free because he liked my performance so much that I get the powder for free.
Had I failed the second check (with an 11 or less) I would be out the initial 100 gp.
I am now at 30 + 10 + 25 + 50 = 115% completion
Second Example: The party fought a Shadow Drake (tome of beasts) and I want to make something cool out of the hide (uncommon rarity homebrew item, grants half cover in dim light or darkness)
Target cost 400 gp
It was a deadly encounter, and a lizardfolk helped me harvest from it, we got a 18, so 75% contribution
I met a leatherworker, and make Persuasion / Persuasion to haggle, getting a 12 and 13. I spent 120gp to have him make what we collected into the cloak
Right, but those sections are still hilariously vague.
"Proficient with tools related to the object" "might need access to special materials or locations" "expend raw materials worth half the item's value" [So, where do you get those raw materials? Are there rules for how much leather you can harvest from a wolf? How much ore you can extract from a mineral deposit? Then how do you smelt and refine it? Iron isn't the same as steel, does that matter? Do you just need metal, or also wood and leather for a sword grip?] "make any judgement calls regarding whether a character has the correct equipment" "The Magic Items Ingredients table suggests the challenge rating of a creature the characters need to face to acquire the materials"
So, essentially, it's saying "make up something you think is appropriate."
There IS a system, and it is intentionally simplistic, so DM's can use them as story hooks or just gloss over it at their discretion.
How long does it take? You make 5 gp per day (one source says 10 hours, another says 8 hours) of progress towards the total cost of the item as found in the equipment section or based off the rarity of the item.
What does it cost? You need half the cost of the item in materials. You either scavenge/harvest them, or pay for them. (Possibly story/adventure hook)
What tools and skills do you use? The tools are for the most part self explanatory. A DM that has difficulty choosing the appropriate tool is going to have difficulty being a DM in the first place. The Out of the Abyss hardcover has work-around crafting mechanics for crafting without proper tooling.
How difficult is it? Difficulty is represented by time and money (see above).
What materials do you need? A DM can use this for a story/adventure hook, otherwise it is not necessary. See 2 above.
Where do you get those materials? A DM can use this for a story/adventure hook, otherwise it is not necessary.
Can you make magic weapons and armor? Yes.
To make a magic item, do you need to make mundane weapons or armor and then visit an enchanter? See 2 above. Otherwise the cost would be the magic item minus the mundane weapon cost if an enchanter does the work.
Can you just do it anywhere? Depends on what you are making. For anything but the most simplest stuff, no.
Do you need a specific workshop? See 3 above. Some tools would not be portable. DM can easily make this call.
Can you make a profit off the activity in your downtime? The crafting and downtime sections state you can maintain a certain lifestyle while crafting. When the item is made, you can sell it at it's value, more if you have good negotiation/persuasion skills, or less if you don't.
I think the system is plenty clear and simple enough to not railroad DM's into doing it a certain way. A DM can make a whole campaign around crafting an item or just deduct time and coin to keep the crafting system from bogging down play if one out of many players is into it.
See, I get all that, but Pineirin was asking if anywhere there was a precise table listing exactly what tools and materials you need to craft specific items. The answer is still no, because WoTC didn't create a Skyrim-style crafting system. The answer to his question is still "make up something that sounds reasonable and go with it."
Right, but those sections are still hilariously vague.
"Proficient with tools related to the object" "might need access to special materials or locations" "expend raw materials worth half the item's value" [So, where do you get those raw materials? Are there rules for how much leather you can harvest from a wolf? How much ore you can extract from a mineral deposit? Then how do you smelt and refine it? Iron isn't the same as steel, does that matter? Do you just need metal, or also wood and leather for a sword grip?] "make any judgement calls regarding whether a character has the correct equipment" "The Magic Items Ingredients table suggests the challenge rating of a creature the characters need to face to acquire the materials"
So, essentially, it's saying "make up something you think is appropriate."
Have you checked out this section of XGtE? It covers tool proficiencies and has a great writeup for each.
Yes, we did. That section is great and by far the most helpful rules regarding tools, but it doesn't really cover crafting. Particularly what materials and tools are needed for each item.
Not sure if this goes here, but my party found enough stuff to make a full set of armor and several weapons but they want an NPC to actually make the items. What would that cost for those items be? I'm terrible at pricing things and all I can find is the retail costs
A couple of comments from the peanut gallery on this necroed thread. * a generally good rule ( even today) is that labor is half the cost - so the retail price is half materials and half labor. * as someone that has actually worked as a gem cutter, a silversmith and a little as a bladesmith, you don’t want to get into the details of how to make items and which exact tools you want or how to use them. The guidelines are a far better way to work it and fit into the game much much better.
Very true but back in the day the “employer” was the worker generally or the “employees” were apprentices and journeymen that the Employer” covered most expenses (food, shelter, clothing, spending money, etc) for - not many big corporations, mostly small “mom & pop” shops. You commissioned the work with the employer for a price that was about 40% materials, 40% labor costs and 20% profit but he was getting 10% profit on the materials and 10% on the labor so it’s still basically 50-50. Adam Smith’s incrementals ideas is a product of the Industrial Revolution and larger factories.
Bit of a necro, but just to address the "why doesn't the system spell out an exact recipe for each item" question in a bit more detail, it's because crafting recipes only work in a pre-defined setting, and generally back-engineer how materials are used to fit what sources of material exist in the setting. That's obviously not an ideal approach for a game whose major selling point is "design your own worlds of adventure"; saying a flametongue sword requires components from a red dragon sounds fine up until someone designs a campaign setting without dragons. Telling people to use their imagination keeps any item potentially open so long as someone can reasonably expect to get at common raw materials.
Bit of a necro, but just to address the "why doesn't the system spell out an exact recipe for each item" question in a bit more detail, it's because crafting recipes only work in a pre-defined setting, and generally back-engineer how materials are used to fit what sources of material exist in the setting. That's obviously not an ideal approach for a game whose major selling point is "design your own worlds of adventure"; saying a flametongue sword requires components from a red dragon sounds fine up until someone designs a campaign setting without dragons. Telling people to use their imagination keeps any item potentially open so long as someone can reasonably expect to get at common raw materials.
I personally am fine with the vague 1/2 cost to make, DM decides the materials style rules. And yes your reasons for it make sense. For mundane items I'd generally just google it unless i am in a odd ball setting like dark sun where metal virtually does not exist or somehting. I think the time frames they came up with are not good though. It is sort of a way to say, don't craft. Even the somewhat faster time in 2024 from xanthars becomes crazy long for many mundane items. It becomes a sort of only wizards craft things system as they have access to fabricate. And yes campaigns can vary, but when it takes 10% of retail cost time it quickly puts any items where its a noticeable amount of money saved well outside the vast majority of games(without fabricate). And spell caster favoritism rears its head in the crafting rules as scrolls have a much shorter craft time, just because. Personally I think i am going to house rule the scroll table time is used for all crafting. Check value of scroll compare to mundane item cost, use scroll crafting time.
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Hi guys, is there any information on wich tools (artisan's tools or other) I need to perform each craft.
In the phb it says you need an herbalism kit to craft potions but i don't see anywhere wich tools I need to craft the rest of the equipment, amor and weapons (incluiding magic ones).
I know you can obtain most of them by common sense (smith tools for a sword for example) but I would prefer to have precise information for each of the craftings as I don't know the composition of many of them and many may need multiple artisan's tools (a spear may need smith and woodcarver tools).
Thanks for any help.
You cannot get precise info from the official books, but you can get closer with xanathar's guide to everything.
Some examples: Herbalism kit = Antitoxin, Potion of Healing; Leatherworker's tools = Leather armor, boots; Smith's tools = armor, weapons; Weaver's tools = cloaks, robes.
In the book are also greater detailed suggestions about time and cost to craft (both non-magical and magical).
Regardless, I would suggest giving it some thought and figuring out what you need to work on for each item (metal, leather, cloth, glass, etc), then figure out which tools make the most sense for that (and that you may not find a good match among the possible options).
Basically, the entire crafting system in 5e was left up to a shoulder-shrug and "eh, if you want to craft items make up some kind of system and go with it." There aren't any "official" rules that go into enough detail to make it any kind of a viable system.
How long does it take? What does it cost? What tools and skills do you use? How difficult is it? What materials do you need? Where do you get those materials? Can you make magic weapons and armor, or do you need to make mundane weapons or armor and then visit an enchanter? Can you just do it anywhere? Or do you need a specific workshop? Can you make a profit off the activity in your downtime? Most of those questions are left to the discretion of your DM.
Not true.
Per the PHB (Non-Magical Items):
Per XGtE (Non-Magical, Magical items, potions, scrolls and poisons):
Right, but those sections are still hilariously vague.
"Proficient with tools related to the object"
"might need access to special materials or locations"
"expend raw materials worth half the item's value" [So, where do you get those raw materials? Are there rules for how much leather you can harvest from a wolf? How much ore you can extract from a mineral deposit? Then how do you smelt and refine it? Iron isn't the same as steel, does that matter? Do you just need metal, or also wood and leather for a sword grip?]
"make any judgement calls regarding whether a character has the correct equipment"
"The Magic Items Ingredients table suggests the challenge rating of a creature the characters need to face to acquire the materials"
So, essentially, it's saying "make up something you think is appropriate."
Here is a rough outline of what I generally do (based on the XGtE rules)
The idea is you string together the cost reductions into a mini-adventure for the players. Either you can come up with the things that they will need, or the player can
Target Cost based on rarity:
DC's Based on rarity (Easy Medium Hard Improbable):
Cost Reductions (grant advantage on the roll if they have an applicable feature, like the Lizardfolk scavenge for harvesting resources)
And you can't do the same thing for every contribution
Example: I want to make Goggles of Night as a level 3 character
The mini adventure is as follows
Second Example: The party fought a Shadow Drake (tome of beasts) and I want to make something cool out of the hide (uncommon rarity homebrew item, grants half cover in dim light or darkness)
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There IS a system, and it is intentionally simplistic, so DM's can use them as story hooks or just gloss over it at their discretion.
I think the system is plenty clear and simple enough to not railroad DM's into doing it a certain way. A DM can make a whole campaign around crafting an item or just deduct time and coin to keep the crafting system from bogging down play if one out of many players is into it.
See, I get all that, but Pineirin was asking if anywhere there was a precise table listing exactly what tools and materials you need to craft specific items. The answer is still no, because WoTC didn't create a Skyrim-style crafting system. The answer to his question is still "make up something that sounds reasonable and go with it."
Simple answer: Journer's comment.
Complicated answer: maestrino vs kerrec discussion.
Helpful, but not RAW answer: houligan's comment.
Thank you for the answers. It's a pity that 5th doesn't have a "real" crafting system and works more with guidelines but well... that's what we have.
So very wrong there's plenty of rules dmg, players guide, and tashas cauldron are great sources
It didn't have them back in August 2019 though, which is the date of this thread.
We had most of these books in 2019, they just don't have rules for what is asked. Neither does Tasha's actually.
Xanathars has some hints, but doesn't go in depth.
And we said all this in 2019.
Yes, we did. That section is great and by far the most helpful rules regarding tools, but it doesn't really cover crafting. Particularly what materials and tools are needed for each item.
Not sure if this goes here, but my party found enough stuff to make a full set of armor and several weapons but they want an NPC to actually make the items. What would that cost for those items be? I'm terrible at pricing things and all I can find is the retail costs
A couple of comments from the peanut gallery on this necroed thread.
* a generally good rule ( even today) is that labor is half the cost - so the retail price is half materials and half labor.
* as someone that has actually worked as a gem cutter, a silversmith and a little as a bladesmith, you don’t want to get into the details of how to make items and which exact tools you want or how to use them. The guidelines are a far better way to work it and fit into the game much much better.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Very true but back in the day the “employer” was the worker generally or the “employees” were apprentices and journeymen that the Employer” covered most expenses (food, shelter, clothing, spending money, etc) for - not many big corporations, mostly small “mom & pop” shops. You commissioned the work with the employer for a price that was about 40% materials, 40% labor costs and 20% profit but he was getting 10% profit on the materials and 10% on the labor so it’s still basically 50-50. Adam Smith’s incrementals ideas is a product of the Industrial Revolution and larger factories.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
They actually have new rules for crafting magic items in DnD 2024 via the new DMG: https://dungeonsanddragonsfan.com/dnd-crafting-magic-items-rules/
Bit of a necro, but just to address the "why doesn't the system spell out an exact recipe for each item" question in a bit more detail, it's because crafting recipes only work in a pre-defined setting, and generally back-engineer how materials are used to fit what sources of material exist in the setting. That's obviously not an ideal approach for a game whose major selling point is "design your own worlds of adventure"; saying a flametongue sword requires components from a red dragon sounds fine up until someone designs a campaign setting without dragons. Telling people to use their imagination keeps any item potentially open so long as someone can reasonably expect to get at common raw materials.
I personally am fine with the vague 1/2 cost to make, DM decides the materials style rules. And yes your reasons for it make sense. For mundane items I'd generally just google it unless i am in a odd ball setting like dark sun where metal virtually does not exist or somehting. I think the time frames they came up with are not good though. It is sort of a way to say, don't craft. Even the somewhat faster time in 2024 from xanthars becomes crazy long for many mundane items. It becomes a sort of only wizards craft things system as they have access to fabricate. And yes campaigns can vary, but when it takes 10% of retail cost time it quickly puts any items where its a noticeable amount of money saved well outside the vast majority of games(without fabricate). And spell caster favoritism rears its head in the crafting rules as scrolls have a much shorter craft time, just because. Personally I think i am going to house rule the scroll table time is used for all crafting. Check value of scroll compare to mundane item cost, use scroll crafting time.