When selecting the Magic initiate feat, can you select spells that a class will have access to? For instance a Chainlock is granted Find Familiar, or Divine Soul Sorcerer having access to the cleric and sorcerer spell list.
I am imagining a guardian champion of a shrine which has been granted the feat through the order of sorcerer priests which protect it. They could pick up Magic Initiate (Divine Sorcerer).
You cannot chose subclasses or class feature specials for this feat, only classes and the according 'standard' spell list with the associated spell casting attribute.
They are correct, this is against RAW. But it's not ridiculously overpowered, as Magic Initiate only grants 1 spell plus a couple cantrips. Your modification only really is likely to allow them to get a Cleric Spell and sorceror cantrips (or vice versa).
Yeah, but that can be pretty OP. Being able to pick up "Divine Sorcerer" spells breaks MAD limitation on the feat. Suddenly, your Dragon Sorcerer has a CHA-based Toll the Dead, Guidance, and a supercharged Healing Word, or a War Cleric picks up Initiate in Arcana Cleric to get access to Fire Bolt for an easy ranged attack spell. It turns into a slippery slope. It's not CRAZY abuseable, but I can see a particularly devious character and a particularly gullible DM turning this into something ugly.
They are correct, this is against RAW. But it's not ridiculously overpowered, as Magic Initiate only grants 1 spell plus a couple cantrips. Your modification only really is likely to allow them to get a Cleric Spell and sorceror cantrips (or vice versa).
Reminder too that the Level 1 spell you get from this feat can only be used once per Long Rest, unlike your other spells.
It seems a bit cheesy to me to try so hard to get a particular spell associated with a particular class when many can already be cast using several casting ability scores. I guess you could homebrew your own modified version of the feat. Is it a problem to have cure wounds available to be cast with charisma? obviously not -- bards already get that spell (as well as subclasses for both warlock and sorcerer).
What is the functional difference between getting cure wounds from MI (Bard) and MI (Divine Soul Sorcerer)? It seems like little, except that the cantrip list for bard is utility focused (I will point out that Bard has a great list of cantrips unless you want to focus on cantrip damage). If you were already a sorcerer, then why not just select your subclass spells with your regular selections and then choose a sorcerer spell with your MI (sorcerer)?
They are correct, this is against RAW. But it's not ridiculously overpowered, as Magic Initiate only grants 1 spell plus a couple cantrips. Your modification only really is likely to allow them to get a Cleric Spell and sorceror cantrips (or vice versa).
Reminder too that the Level 1 spell you get from this feat can only be used once per Long Rest, unlike your other spells.
It can also be cast just like your other spells if that spell also appears on your character’s spell list.
They are correct, this is against RAW. But it's not ridiculously overpowered, as Magic Initiate only grants 1 spell plus a couple cantrips. Your modification only really is likely to allow them to get a Cleric Spell and sorceror cantrips (or vice versa).
Reminder too that the Level 1 spell you get from this feat can only be used once per Long Rest, unlike your other spells.
It can also be cast just like your other spells if that spell also appears on your character’s spell list.
I think RAW it counts as an additional spell known of whatever class you choose for MI, meaning that you can cast it only once unless you have levels in the same class (since it is associated with a class through the feat and your spell slots are for your spells associated with classes you have levels in) and that class is a spells known class (Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock -- the others would still need to prepare any spell that they wish to cast with slots).
They are correct, this is against RAW. But it's not ridiculously overpowered, as Magic Initiate only grants 1 spell plus a couple cantrips. Your modification only really is likely to allow them to get a Cleric Spell and sorceror cantrips (or vice versa).
Reminder too that the Level 1 spell you get from this feat can only be used once per Long Rest, unlike your other spells.
It can also be cast just like your other spells if that spell also appears on your character’s spell list.
I think RAW it counts as an additional spell known of whatever class you choose for MI, meaning that you can cast it only once unless you have levels in the same class (since it is associated with a class through the feat and your spell slots are for your spells associated with classes you have levels in) and that class is a spells known class (Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock -- the others would still need to prepare any spell that they wish to cast with slots).
Yeah, it was clarified that you learn the spell as a new spell known, but only if you take the feat from a class to which you belong. So taking MI(Bard) wouldn't add charm person to your spells known, but taking MI(Sorcerer) COULD add charm person to your spells known.
I'd argue if you WERE a Divine Soul sorcerer, and you took MI(Sorcerer), I MIGHT be convinced to allow your spells to be from the Cleric list. But that kind of defeats the purpose, I think.
Yeah, maybe I would allow A DS sorcerer to take DS (cleric) spells. But again, I can't see that it would matter unless you cannot find two cantrips and one first level spell on the regular sorcerer list and want all of your spells off of the cleric list. I'm not sure that makes a lot of sense (why not just play a cleric at that point?).
They are correct, this is against RAW. But it's not ridiculously overpowered, as Magic Initiate only grants 1 spell plus a couple cantrips. Your modification only really is likely to allow them to get a Cleric Spell and sorceror cantrips (or vice versa).
Reminder too that the Level 1 spell you get from this feat can only be used once per Long Rest, unlike your other spells.
It can also be cast just like your other spells if that spell also appears on your character’s spell list.
I think RAW it counts as an additional spell known of whatever class you choose for MI, meaning that you can cast it only once unless you have levels in the same class (since it is associated with a class through the feat and your spell slots are for your spells associated with classes you have levels in) and that class is a spells known class (Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock -- the others would still need to prepare any spell that they wish to cast with slots).
Yeah, it was clarified that you learn the spell as a new spell known, but only if you take the feat from a class to which you belong. So taking MI(Bard) wouldn't add charm person to your spells known, but taking MI(Sorcerer) COULD add charm person to your spells known.
I'd argue if you WERE a Divine Soul sorcerer, and you took MI(Sorcerer), I MIGHT be convinced to allow your spells to be from the Cleric list. But that kind of defeats the purpose, I think.
Where was this clarified? The feat is VERY clear that it only gives you one casting of that spell per long rest and this is backed up by DND Beyond character sheet that allows only 1 use per Long Rest.
I’m assuming there’s a Sage Advice errata that negates the very clear description of the Feat?
Edit: Found the relevant article, me and DnD Beyond got it wrong 🙂
If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st-level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat?
Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare.
In short, you must follow your character’s normal spellcasting rules, which determine whether you can expend spell slots on the 1st-level spell you learn from Magic Initiate.
They are correct, this is against RAW. But it's not ridiculously overpowered, as Magic Initiate only grants 1 spell plus a couple cantrips. Your modification only really is likely to allow them to get a Cleric Spell and sorceror cantrips (or vice versa).
Reminder too that the Level 1 spell you get from this feat can only be used once per Long Rest, unlike your other spells.
It can also be cast just like your other spells if that spell also appears on your character’s spell list.
Where does it say this in the Feat or errata?
Nevermind, found it - but to make sure, you do NOT get this benefit if you pick MI for a different class than your own. It only becomes a spell that can use spell slots if MI matches your class.
They are correct, this is against RAW. But it's not ridiculously overpowered, as Magic Initiate only grants 1 spell plus a couple cantrips. Your modification only really is likely to allow them to get a Cleric Spell and sorceror cantrips (or vice versa).
Reminder too that the Level 1 spell you get from this feat can only be used once per Long Rest, unlike your other spells.
It can also be cast just like your other spells if that spell also appears on your character’s spell list.
I think RAW it counts as an additional spell known of whatever class you choose for MI, meaning that you can cast it only once unless you have levels in the same class (since it is associated with a class through the feat and your spell slots are for your spells associated with classes you have levels in) and that class is a spells known class (Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock -- the others would still need to prepare any spell that they wish to cast with slots).
Yeah, it was clarified that you learn the spell as a new spell known, but only if you take the feat from a class to which you belong. So taking MI(Bard) wouldn't add charm person to your spells known, but taking MI(Sorcerer) COULD add charm person to your spells known.
I'd argue if you WERE a Divine Soul sorcerer, and you took MI(Sorcerer), I MIGHT be convinced to allow your spells to be from the Cleric list. But that kind of defeats the purpose, I think.
Where was this clarified? The feat is VERY clear that it only gives you one casting of that spell per long rest and this is backed up by DND Beyond character sheet that allows only 1 use per Long Rest.
I’m assuming there’s a Sage Advice errata that negates the very clear description of the Feat?
Edit: Found it:
If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st-level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat?
Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare.
In short, you must follow your character’s normal spellcasting rules, which determine whether you can expend spell slots on the 1st-level spell you learn from Magic Initiate.
This. Thank you for doing the legwork, I couldn't remember if it was in sage advice, or a response from one of the developers somewhere. To be clear, IamSposta's interpretation is INCORRECT. It ONLY gets added to your list of spells known if the feat is from a class you posses. Not if it's a different class, but provides a spell that's on your spell list. Thus, charm person from MI(Bard) would only be added to spells known if you had levels in bard.
They are correct, this is against RAW. But it's not ridiculously overpowered, as Magic Initiate only grants 1 spell plus a couple cantrips. Your modification only really is likely to allow them to get a Cleric Spell and sorceror cantrips (or vice versa).
Reminder too that the Level 1 spell you get from this feat can only be used once per Long Rest, unlike your other spells.
It can also be cast just like your other spells if that spell also appears on your character’s spell list.
I think RAW it counts as an additional spell known of whatever class you choose for MI, meaning that you can cast it only once unless you have levels in the same class (since it is associated with a class through the feat and your spell slots are for your spells associated with classes you have levels in) and that class is a spells known class (Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock -- the others would still need to prepare any spell that they wish to cast with slots).
Yeah, it was clarified that you learn the spell as a new spell known, but only if you take the feat from a class to which you belong. So taking MI(Bard) wouldn't add charm person to your spells known, but taking MI(Sorcerer) COULD add charm person to your spells known.
I'd argue if you WERE a Divine Soul sorcerer, and you took MI(Sorcerer), I MIGHT be convinced to allow your spells to be from the Cleric list. But that kind of defeats the purpose, I think.
Where was this clarified? The feat is VERY clear that it only gives you one casting of that spell per long rest and this is backed up by DND Beyond character sheet that allows only 1 use per Long Rest.
I’m assuming there’s a Sage Advice errata that negates the very clear description of the Feat?
Edit: Found it:
If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st-level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat?
Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare.
In short, you must follow your character’s normal spellcasting rules, which determine whether you can expend spell slots on the 1st-level spell you learn from Magic Initiate.
This. Thank you for doing the legwork, I couldn't remember if it was in sage advice, or a response from one of the developers somewhere. To be clear, IamSposta's interpretation is INCORRECT. It ONLY gets added to your list of spells known if the feat is from a class you posses. Not if it's a different class, but provides a spell that's on your spell list. Thus, charm person from MI(Bard) would only be added to spells known if you had levels in bard.
Correct, I misremembered. However, my point was that it is possible to cast that spell more than once if you meet the conditions.
When selecting the Magic initiate feat, can you select spells that a class will have access to? For instance a Chainlock is granted Find Familiar, or Divine Soul Sorcerer having access to the cleric and sorcerer spell list.
I am imagining a guardian champion of a shrine which has been granted the feat through the order of sorcerer priests which protect it. They could pick up Magic Initiate (Divine Sorcerer).
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
You cannot chose subclasses or class feature specials for this feat, only classes and the according 'standard' spell list with the associated spell casting attribute.
Your DM can overrule this of course.
Magic initiate only considers the base class's spellcasting feature, not spells granted by any other features or subclasses.
That is how I interpreted it as well. Just seeing if the 'bend not break' rule could be applicable. Thanks for the speedy response.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
They are correct, this is against RAW. But it's not ridiculously overpowered, as Magic Initiate only grants 1 spell plus a couple cantrips. Your modification only really is likely to allow them to get a Cleric Spell and sorceror cantrips (or vice versa).
Yeah, but that can be pretty OP. Being able to pick up "Divine Sorcerer" spells breaks MAD limitation on the feat. Suddenly, your Dragon Sorcerer has a CHA-based Toll the Dead, Guidance, and a supercharged Healing Word, or a War Cleric picks up Initiate in Arcana Cleric to get access to Fire Bolt for an easy ranged attack spell. It turns into a slippery slope. It's not CRAZY abuseable, but I can see a particularly devious character and a particularly gullible DM turning this into something ugly.
Reminder too that the Level 1 spell you get from this feat can only be used once per Long Rest, unlike your other spells.
RAW it has been answered.
It seems a bit cheesy to me to try so hard to get a particular spell associated with a particular class when many can already be cast using several casting ability scores. I guess you could homebrew your own modified version of the feat. Is it a problem to have cure wounds available to be cast with charisma? obviously not -- bards already get that spell (as well as subclasses for both warlock and sorcerer).
What is the functional difference between getting cure wounds from MI (Bard) and MI (Divine Soul Sorcerer)? It seems like little, except that the cantrip list for bard is utility focused (I will point out that Bard has a great list of cantrips unless you want to focus on cantrip damage). If you were already a sorcerer, then why not just select your subclass spells with your regular selections and then choose a sorcerer spell with your MI (sorcerer)?
It can also be cast just like your other spells if that spell also appears on your character’s spell list.
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I think RAW it counts as an additional spell known of whatever class you choose for MI, meaning that you can cast it only once unless you have levels in the same class (since it is associated with a class through the feat and your spell slots are for your spells associated with classes you have levels in) and that class is a spells known class (Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock -- the others would still need to prepare any spell that they wish to cast with slots).
Yeah, it was clarified that you learn the spell as a new spell known, but only if you take the feat from a class to which you belong. So taking MI(Bard) wouldn't add charm person to your spells known, but taking MI(Sorcerer) COULD add charm person to your spells known.
I'd argue if you WERE a Divine Soul sorcerer, and you took MI(Sorcerer), I MIGHT be convinced to allow your spells to be from the Cleric list. But that kind of defeats the purpose, I think.
Yeah, maybe I would allow A DS sorcerer to take DS (cleric) spells. But again, I can't see that it would matter unless you cannot find two cantrips and one first level spell on the regular sorcerer list and want all of your spells off of the cleric list. I'm not sure that makes a lot of sense (why not just play a cleric at that point?).
Where was this clarified? The feat is VERY clear that it only gives you one casting of that spell per long rest and this is backed up by DND Beyond character sheet that allows only 1 use per Long Rest.
I’m assuming there’s a Sage Advice errata that negates the very clear description of the Feat?
Edit: Found the relevant article, me and DnD Beyond got it wrong 🙂
If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st-level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat?
Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare.
In short, you must follow your character’s normal spellcasting rules, which determine whether you can expend spell slots on the 1st-level spell you learn from Magic Initiate.
Where does it say this in the Feat or errata?
Nevermind, found it - but to make sure, you do NOT get this benefit if you pick MI for a different class than your own. It only becomes a spell that can use spell slots if MI matches your class.
This. Thank you for doing the legwork, I couldn't remember if it was in sage advice, or a response from one of the developers somewhere. To be clear, IamSposta's interpretation is INCORRECT. It ONLY gets added to your list of spells known if the feat is from a class you posses. Not if it's a different class, but provides a spell that's on your spell list. Thus, charm person from MI(Bard) would only be added to spells known if you had levels in bard.
Correct, I misremembered. However, my point was that it is possible to cast that spell more than once if you meet the conditions.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
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Content Troubleshooting