When you get the same skill or tool proficiency from multiple sources, the PHB says you can choose another proficiency of the same category.
Is it the same for armor proficiencies ?
Let me gives you 2 examples:
- Does a mountain dwarf cleric (gaining both light + medium armor + shield from Racial feature and class proficiencies) can pick up heavy armor for free ?
- Does a cleric that multiclass into a fighter can pick up the heavy armor proficiency for free since he gain light + medium + shield from the cleric class and again by multiclassing into a fighter ?
The PHB spcifies "tool" proficiency, which is different from weapon/armour proficiency. So, to answer your examples:
- Does a mountain dwarf cleric (gaining both light + medium armor + shield from Racial feature and class proficiencies) can pick up heavy armor for free ? As weapons and armour are not counted or treated as "tools", this would not be possible.
- Does a cleric that multiclass into a fighter can pick up the heavy armor proficiency for free since he gain light + medium + shield from the cleric class and again by multiclassing into a fighter ? In this case I believe (I might be wrong on this one tho) you would get the heavy armor proficiency as part of the standard things you get from multiclassing Fighter, as it is a basic proficiency for that class, but no aditional "free" weapon/armour proficiency due to overlap in the two classes I was very wrong in my first reply to this one. Here you have the relative table to know what you get from each class when multicalssing into it. As can be seen, the heavy armour is not part of the "multiclass package" of the Fighter, so you would not get it, as per the same reason as the first example.
Anyone know if the limited Multiclassing proficiency gains include "bonus proficiencies"? I'm specifically looking at the Cleric domains that grant heavy armor such as nature, light, and so on.
If not, than it would appear you can't get heavy armor armor at all from second class. Many people do take the heavy class first if you are planning to multi into it, however, it does also determine your bonus to saving throws.
Anyone know if the limited Multiclassing proficiency gains include "bonus proficiencies"? I'm specifically looking at the Cleric domains that grant heavy armor such as nature, light, and so on.
As that is a proficiency that comes from the Domain you choose at lvl1 Cleric, and you get all features of the class you multiclass into, I'd say you still get the Heavy Armor proficiency from the appropriate domains.
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If not, than it would appear you can't get heavy armor armor at all from second class. Many people do take the heavy class first if you are planning to multi into it, however, it does also determine your bonus to saving throws.
Strictly speaking, you would still have the Heavily Armored feat, but yeah, you are right, there is no class that taken as a second class would grant you heavy armor, except a Cleric of the appropriate Domain (again, being the Domain choice a feature of lvl1 Cleric that you would get when multiclassing).
I ask myself now if it is something Wizard overlook when writting the books or not.
It might be strong, but I think I'll allow it in both case (mountain dwarf cleric or multiclassing).
The logic is : If you're a dwarf, you've been train with light and medium armor during your youth. You then enter a professional training that will give you access to a class (so additionnal time to train with armors as a cleric).
If you're a priest of light that multicalss as a fighter, training physically to gain the level in the fighter class let you upgrade your endurance to heavier armor than the ones you learn to use as a cleric.
I know it wont be allowed in the Adventurers guild, but I think it make more sense that way.
I ask myself now if it is something Wizard overlook when writting the books or not.
It is definitely not something they overlooked. If they weren't deliberately excluding all types of proficiency that a character might have, other than skill proficiency and tool proficiency, they would have written the relevant sentence without the "(skill or tool)" portion because that would have been functionally identical to listing every type of proficiency, but also used fewer words that that would have taken.
Further evidence that it isn't something they overlooked, if all types of proficiency were intended to follow the "if you get it twice, pick a different proficiency of the same type" rule, then this rule would be found in chapter 1 where the rules outline where your character gains various proficiency types from, rather than being found in chapter 4 where skill and tool are the only types of proficiency that are gained and are specified so they have the potential of being something you already have (since every language proficiency gained is your choice, so it's already not going to be something you have from a different source).
It's really just an attempt at keeping everyone from running around in plate mail, now that there aren't any real restrictions or drawbacks to it other than proficiency.
It's really just an attempt at keeping everyone from running around in plate mail, now that there aren't any real restrictions or drawbacks to it other than proficiency.
True. And even then, it's an aesthetic/thematic thing, rather than a balance thing, since what a character's AC is likely to be is a much narrower range than in prior editions thanks to the way Armor and Dexterity interact with each other.
Not like back in the day where the warrior-y characters could easily have an AC 10 or more better than the mage-y type was likely to have without exactly the right assortment of magic items and spells.
Thats why i want to allowed it, since starting as a fighter an then switching to cleric you have it, but starting as a cleric and switching to fighter, you aren't (that invites players to min/max their character by starting as a fighter rather than choosing their starting class base only on the looks of their character).
Thats why i want to allowed it, since starting as a fighter an then switching to cleric you have it, but starting as a cleric and switching to fighter, you aren't (that invites players to min/max their character by starting as a fighter rather than choosing their starting class base only on the looks of their character).
That depends entirely on what you want to multiclass for.
If it is only for an armor or weapon proficiency, then multiclassing is probably not the answer, you are better of waiting a lvl or two and take a feat instead. Same goes if you want to multiclass for specific features the new class has that integrate well with your idea.
Switching to fighter and not having instantly the heavy armor proficiency makes sense to me, even from a narrative standpoint, as you cannot learn how to properly don, doff and move/fight with such a movement-impeding and heavy thing on you the whole time. Much more sense is to get it later on, or, if the level up and multiclass happens during a downtime, the DM could even allow each character a free feat, and for this multiclassing character it might well heavily armored.
I do not think there is need to tweak the rules on this, to be honest, feats are a very easy and integrated way of solving this kind of perceived issues, as long it is ok with the DM and everyone at the table.
If, on the contrary, everyone on the table prefers to go the way you propose, allowing free weapon/armor proficiency in case of doubles, that is obviously fine as well, but again everyone at the table has to be on board for it.
When you get the same skill or tool proficiency from multiple sources, the PHB says you can choose another proficiency of the same category.
Is it the same for armor proficiencies ?
Let me gives you 2 examples:
- Does a mountain dwarf cleric (gaining both light + medium armor + shield from Racial feature and class proficiencies) can pick up heavy armor for free ?
- Does a cleric that multiclass into a fighter can pick up the heavy armor proficiency for free since he gain light + medium + shield from the cleric class and again by multiclassing into a fighter ?
THANKS !
I believe you would not.
The PHB spcifies "tool" proficiency, which is different from weapon/armour proficiency.
So, to answer your examples:
- Does a mountain dwarf cleric (gaining both light + medium armor + shield from Racial feature and class proficiencies) can pick up heavy armor for free ?
As weapons and armour are not counted or treated as "tools", this would not be possible.
- Does a cleric that multiclass into a fighter can pick up the heavy armor proficiency for free since he gain light + medium + shield from the cleric class and again by multiclassing into a fighter ?
In this case I believe (I might be wrong on this one tho) you would get the heavy armor proficiency as part of the standard things you get from multiclassing Fighter, as it is a basic proficiency for that class, but no aditional "free" weapon/armour proficiency due to overlap in the two classesI was very wrong in my first reply to this one. Here you have the relative table to know what you get from each class when multicalssing into it. As can be seen, the heavy armour is not part of the "multiclass package" of the Fighter, so you would not get it, as per the same reason as the first example.
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D&D Beyond FoundersThe multiclassing section tells you what you gain for multiclassing into a class.
Note that you do NOT gain proficiency in heavy armour for multiclassing into fighter.
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Anyone know if the limited Multiclassing proficiency gains include "bonus proficiencies"? I'm specifically looking at the Cleric domains that grant heavy armor such as nature, light, and so on.
If not, than it would appear you can't get heavy armor armor at all from second class. Many people do take the heavy class first if you are planning to multi into it, however, it does also determine your bonus to saving throws.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
I ask myself now if it is something Wizard overlook when writting the books or not.
It might be strong, but I think I'll allow it in both case (mountain dwarf cleric or multiclassing).
The logic is : If you're a dwarf, you've been train with light and medium armor during your youth. You then enter a professional training that will give you access to a class (so additionnal time to train with armors as a cleric).
If you're a priest of light that multicalss as a fighter, training physically to gain the level in the fighter class let you upgrade your endurance to heavier armor than the ones you learn to use as a cleric.
I know it wont be allowed in the Adventurers guild, but I think it make more sense that way.
It is definitely not something they overlooked. If they weren't deliberately excluding all types of proficiency that a character might have, other than skill proficiency and tool proficiency, they would have written the relevant sentence without the "(skill or tool)" portion because that would have been functionally identical to listing every type of proficiency, but also used fewer words that that would have taken.
Further evidence that it isn't something they overlooked, if all types of proficiency were intended to follow the "if you get it twice, pick a different proficiency of the same type" rule, then this rule would be found in chapter 1 where the rules outline where your character gains various proficiency types from, rather than being found in chapter 4 where skill and tool are the only types of proficiency that are gained and are specified so they have the potential of being something you already have (since every language proficiency gained is your choice, so it's already not going to be something you have from a different source).
It's really just an attempt at keeping everyone from running around in plate mail, now that there aren't any real restrictions or drawbacks to it other than proficiency.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
Thats why i want to allowed it, since starting as a fighter an then switching to cleric you have it, but starting as a cleric and switching to fighter, you aren't (that invites players to min/max their character by starting as a fighter rather than choosing their starting class base only on the looks of their character).
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games