The article on Order of the Scribes has had me wondering about what other elemental-focused subclasses could synergize with the Scribe Wizard's level 2 Awakened Spellbook element switching (for wizard spells only), beyond the Tempest Cleric. I don't really have a build in mind, was just wanting to brainstorm other similar element-seeking subclass features. Looking at spellcasting classes, I can think of:
Whenever you cast a spell that deals fire damage or restores hit points while your wildfire spirit is summoned, roll a d8, and you gain a bonus equal to the number rolled to one damage or healing roll of the spell.
Starting at 6th level, when you cast a spell that deals damage of the type associated with your draconic ancestry, you can add your Charisma modifier to one damage roll of that spell. At the same time, you can spend 1 sorcery point to gain resistance to that damage type for 1 hour.
whenever you start casting a spell of 1st level or higher that deals lightning or thunder damage, stormy magic erupts from you. This eruption causes creatures of your choice that you can see within 10 feet of you to take lightning or thunder damage (choose each time this ability activates) equal to half your sorcerer level.
when you cast a spell that deals radiant or fire damage, you can add your Charisma modifier to one radiant or fire damage roll of that spell against one of its targets.
Spells you cast ignore resistance to damage of the chosen type. In addition, when you roll damage for a spell you cast that deals damage of that type, you can treat any 1 on a damage die as a 2.
When you roll fire damage for a spell you cast, you can reroll any roll of 1 on the fire damage dice, but you must use the new roll, even if it is another 1.
Whenever you cast a spell that deals fire damage, you can cause flames to wreathe you until the end of your next turn. The flames don’t harm you or your possessions, and they shed bright light out to 30 feet and dim light for an additional 30 feet. While the flames are present, any creature within 5 feet of you that hits you with a melee attack takes 1d4 fire damage.
When you make a damage roll that deals poison damage, it ignores resistance to poison damage.
In a vacuum, it looks like you could stack up to three level 6 elemental features, and the Wizard 2 feature... but that would only be useful for level 1 spells. Or, you could stack two level 6 features on a Wizard 8 and do tricks with up to fourth level spells. Or just nab one on a Wizard 14, and use it for up to 7th level spells.
Fire seems like it could actually be the runaway element here: ignore resistance (Elemental adept), reroll 1's and get a fire shield (Flames of Phlegethos), +Charisma to one damage roll (celestial warlock and/or draconic sorcerer), +d8 to all targets (Wildfire Druid). However, there's already so many fire spells out there, that it almost feels like you could have already built that character without the Scribe at all, just being a Druid/Sorc/Warlock or an Evoker/Sorc/Warlock for even better damage.
So... what am I missing, what's the angle here, what else can we do with this other than the maximizable Lightning or Thunder from Scribe/Tempest cleric, or the pyromancy from Scribe/Draconic/Celestial?
The article on Order of the Scribes has had me wondering about what other elemental-focused subclasses could synergize with the Scribe Wizard's level 2 Awakened Spellbook element switching (for wizard spells only), beyond the Tempest Cleric. I don't really have a build in mind, was just wanting to brainstorm other similar element-seeking subclass features. Looking at spellcasting classes, I can think of:
Whenever you cast a spell that deals fire damage or restores hit points while your wildfire spirit is summoned, roll a d8, and you gain a bonus equal to the number rolled to one damage or healing roll of the spell.
Starting at 6th level, when you cast a spell that deals damage of the type associated with your draconic ancestry, you can add your Charisma modifier to one damage roll of that spell. At the same time, you can spend 1 sorcery point to gain resistance to that damage type for 1 hour.
whenever you start casting a spell of 1st level or higher that deals lightning or thunder damage, stormy magic erupts from you. This eruption causes creatures of your choice that you can see within 10 feet of you to take lightning or thunder damage (choose each time this ability activates) equal to half your sorcerer level.
when you cast a spell that deals radiant or fire damage, you can add your Charisma modifier to one radiant or fire damage roll of that spell against one of its targets.
Spells you cast ignore resistance to damage of the chosen type. In addition, when you roll damage for a spell you cast that deals damage of that type, you can treat any 1 on a damage die as a 2.
When you roll fire damage for a spell you cast, you can reroll any roll of 1 on the fire damage dice, but you must use the new roll, even if it is another 1.
Whenever you cast a spell that deals fire damage, you can cause flames to wreathe you until the end of your next turn. The flames don’t harm you or your possessions, and they shed bright light out to 30 feet and dim light for an additional 30 feet. While the flames are present, any creature within 5 feet of you that hits you with a melee attack takes 1d4 fire damage.
When you make a damage roll that deals poison damage, it ignores resistance to poison damage.
In a vacuum, it looks like you could stack up to three level 6 elemental features, and the Wizard 2 feature... but that would only be useful for level 1 spells. Or, you could stack two level 6 features on a Wizard 8 and do tricks with up to fourth level spells. Or just nab one on a Wizard 14, and use it for up to 7th level spells.
Fire seems like it could actually be the runaway element here: ignore resistance (Elemental adept), reroll 1's and get a fire shield (Flames of Phlegethos), +Charisma to one damage roll (celestial warlock and/or draconic sorcerer), +d8 to all targets (Wildfire Druid). However, there's already so many fire spells out there, that it almost feels like you could have already built that character without the Scribe at all, just being a Druid/Sorc/Warlock or an Evoker/Sorc/Warlock for even better damage.
So... what am I missing, what's the angle here, what else can we do with this other than the maximizable Lightning or Thunder from Scribe/Tempest cleric, or the pyromancy from Scribe/Draconic/Celestial?
Don't forget the Transmuted Spell metamagic for Sorcerer. You can use it to get effects from spells of one type of damage into your favored type, as long as it was one of the 6. It's like the awakened spellbook ability, but limited to those damage types for the cost of opening up your available spells. You'll want the majority of your spells to be of the favored damage type, but having a few others wouldn't hurt and ensuring that those were wizard spells would give you the greatest number available.
I could see a Scribe/Tempest/Storm Sorcerer being an interesting concept. You'd have to find the sweet spot where you had the spell levels that you wanted from wizard while hitting Cleric 6 or 8 and still getting enough storm sorcerer to make the damage spread strong enough. Or drop the scribe altogether and rely on transmuted spell.
Being able to mass push a group of creatures with a Fireball or something as simple as magic missile could be quite potent. Say Cast Magic Missile from scribe 2 and target creatures that are further away from you than the 10 ft. You can even quicken it if you wanted to Booming Blade on first. Now you've pushed creatures within 10 feet of you away 10 feet via the lightning damage from heart of the storm's synergy with Thundebolt Strike and Booming Blade can get one via thunderbolt strike, possibly to hard it into a more favorable position to get the shotgun effect from heart of the storm. The 3 possible targets from a 1st level magic missile can be used to herd other targets outside of that 10 feet into a more compact area and can be upcast to include additional targets.
Once they are packed in tight, they can be hit with a devastating AOE attack from another member of the party. They can be pushed into a cleric's Spirit Guardians (potentially yours with lighting damage thanks to Transmuted Spell, but not needed), across difficult terrain for further control (perhaps Spike Growth) or off a cliff. The damage at that point would almost be a moot point as you would simply control the battlefield. Shatter would be come a control spell. Change out Booming Blade for Shocking Grasp if you are worried about some one carrying Shield or Counterspell.
Don't like where you are at? Thunder Step to reposition... nearly everyone around you.
It sounds like at least 5 in scribe, 6 in tempest cleric and probably at least 6 in storm sorcerer, leaving 3 levels for a max level character to play with. You can pick your favorite lead in by going with free spell transmutation with scribe or the shotgun effect with storm sorcerer, only changing a few spells and focusing on natural lightning spells. If all you are doing is herding, you don't need to focus on damage dealing or enhancing feats, you can pick up mobility and survival. You would certainly draw a lot of fire with this type of build, even if you weren't dealing most of the damage. Bump your primary spellcasting stat first (likely intelligence or charisma, but possibly wisdom, whatever requires the most attacks to hit or is a save or suck spell) grab Warcaster to Booming Blade or Shocking grasp as an OA. Perhaps Resilient(Con) to get con save proficiency and increase HP. Perhaps Shield Master (since evasion is quite the dip without spell slot progression).
Hang out by your friendly Paladin, especially if she is an Ancients Paladin, and especially if her best friend is a Cavalier. See if you can get your Paladin friend to cast Warding Bond on you.
For the absolutely bone crushing version of this? Two levels of warlock for two more spell slots on a short rest in addition to anything you get from Wizard, the possibility of adding Hexblade for MADness easement if Booming Blade is a priority cantrip, Fiendish Vigor for more HP at will, an option for concentration save enhancement or something along those lines, and Devil's Sight. Have anyone cast Darkness on your shield, weapon, or spellcasting focus (extra points if it's a Shadow Sorcerer that will be the AOE machine) to give your enemies disadvantage on attacks against you and limit the save spells and abilities directed at you to those where it doesn't matter if they can see you. Tell your bodyguards to change their fighting style to blind fighting and then herd your enemies into a corner and BAM.
Another possibility with the 2 level warlock dip, EB with Agonizing Blast to give you a decent damage fall back against creatures that can't be herded or are immune to lighting damage.
Here's a level 17 version of that character concept. Getting two more levels in either of the level 6 options or 3 more in wizard would net another ASI. 2 to 3 in Warlock could also give some valid options, as mentioned above.
Can you use wizard 2/wildfire 6/draconic sorcerer 6 as a thiefling to upcast a fire magic missile to a (1d4+1d8+Cha mod+1)x11 (9th lvl)?
No. Wildfire adds 1d8 to one roll from the spell, just as Draconic adds CHA mod to one roll. The only ability you listed that will work on all 11 darts is if the Tiefling takes the Flames of Phlegethos feat, which will cause each dart to go from average 3.5 to average 3.875 (slightly better than elemental adept at 3.75 per dart). Elemental Adept also applies to all darts, and will stack with Phlegethos, letting you re-roll 1s and then if it's still a 1 you can count it as 2, so having both gets you average dart damage 3.9375. Since the 1d8 from Wildfire isn't a damage die, you can't apply either feat to it.
That means average damage done this way with all abilities at once is 3.9375*11 + 4.5 + 5 = 52.8125 fire damage that ignores fire resistance but not fire immunity. Significantly less than Meteor Swarm, so why bother? On the other hand, if your GM is willing to interpret your ability to work on individual damage types of a multi-type spell, you could certainly force Meteor Swarm to deal fire damage twice, letting your fire abilities apply to what used to be the bludgeoning half.
However, one of the myriad equally valid interpretations of the Scribes ability is that when you cast e.g. Prismatic Spray, each individual spray's type is individually assignable. As a corollary, your GM might allow you to modify each dart's type individually. This isn't useful for Tempest Cleric 2, which needs a channel divinity per dart to do anything useful, but Tempest Cleric 6 and Storm Sorcerer 6 both only need 1 lightning dart to function, just as Storm Sorcerers have always been able to trigger when casting Prismatic Spray.
Oh, and speaking of the bludgeoning from Meteor Swarm. Since these shenanigans work with any damage type, not just elemental ones, don't forget to add Crusher, Piercer, and Slasher to the feats list. All three only work if you make a spell attack (so not magic missile or meteor swarm, but yes to e.g. chromatic orb). The three feats are stackable - e.g. you could use Scorching Ray to shoot one ray of each type, assuming your GM is amenable.
Can you use wizard 2/wildfire 6/draconic sorcerer 6 as a thiefling to upcast a fire magic missile to a (1d4+1d8+Cha mod+1)x11 (9th lvl)?
No. Wildfire adds 1d8 to one roll from the spell, just as Draconic adds CHA mod to one roll. The only ability you listed that will work on all 11 darts is if the Tiefling takes the Flames of Phlegethos feat, which will cause each dart to go from average 3.5 to average 3.875 (slightly better than elemental adept at 3.75 per dart). Elemental Adept also applies to all darts, and will stack with Phlegethos, letting you re-roll 1s and then if it's still a 1 you can count it as 2, so having both gets you average dart damage 3.9375. Since the 1d8 from Wildfire isn't a damage die, you can't apply either feat to it.
That means average damage done this way with all abilities at once is 3.9375*11 + 4.5 + 5 = 52.8125 fire damage that ignores fire resistance but not fire immunity. Significantly less than Meteor Swarm, so why bother? On the other hand, if your GM is willing to interpret your ability to work on individual damage types of a multi-type spell, you could certainly force Meteor Swarm to deal fire damage twice, letting your fire abilities apply to what used to be the bludgeoning half.
However, one of the myriad equally valid interpretations of the Scribes ability is that when you cast e.g. Prismatic Spray, each individual spray's type is individually assignable. As a corollary, your GM might allow you to modify each dart's type individually. This isn't useful for Tempest Cleric 2, which needs a channel divinity per dart to do anything useful, but Tempest Cleric 6 and Storm Sorcerer 6 both only need 1 lightning dart to function, just as Storm Sorcerers have always been able to trigger when casting Prismatic Spray.
Oh, and speaking of the bludgeoning from Meteor Swarm. Since these shenanigans work with any damage type, not just elemental ones, don't forget to add Crusher, Piercer, and Slasher to the feats list. All three only work if you make a spell attack (so not magic missile or meteor swarm, but yes to e.g. chromatic orb). The three feats are stackable - e.g. you could use Scorching Ray to shoot one ray of each type, assuming your GM is amenable.
Magic Missile should be 1 roll per RAW. It works if your GM rules it that way, but doesn't if they rule it as separate rolls for each dart.
I agree that it should not multiply, but if you go by RAW...
I am going by RAW. There's nothing on PHB196 stating you roll all the darts together - I have no idea what Jeremy is smoking. The only remotely relevant rule I see on PHB196 is the one for fireball, but that has issues - for starters, that rule, RAW, only applies if you have more than one target. RAW, it by definition doesn't interact if you throw all of your darts at one target. Even once you have multiple targets, it's physically impossible to apply that rule to Magic Missile, in general - e.g. suppose you hit Adam with two darts and Bob with one dart. It's physically impossible to roll the damage once for both of them - each of them is taking a distinct amount of damage. What are you supposed to do that doesn't violate the RAW? If you roll for one dart and have Adam take twice that amount, you're violating PHB 196, and if you roll for two darts and have Bob take half that amount, you're violating PHB 196. The only circumstance in which it's physically possible to roll magic missile in the same style as fireball is when every target is being hit with the same number of darts, and as I said, you need at least two targets for PHB 196's fireball-style rule to react.
Rules that are literally impossible to obey are as old as dnd, and we've always solved the problem by not obeying them. You could have magic missile behave wildly differently based on how many targets you have and how many darts per target, I suppose. I can't imagine any DM agreeing to that.
Peeve: rather than talking about "PHB 196" over and over again, or offering opinions on "RAW" without providing any "W" in your posts, it's always good etiquette to just link and quote language that you think matters. Quality posts generate quality discussion.
Each weapon, spell, and harmful monster ability specifies the damage it deals. You roll the damage die or dice, add any modifiers, and apply the damage to your target. Magic weapons, special abilities, and other factors can grant a bonus to damage.
With a penalty, it is possible to deal 0 damage, but never negative damage.
When attacking with a weapon, you add your ability modifier — the same modifier used for the attack roll — to the damage. A spell tells you which dice to roll for damage and whether to add any modifiers.
If a spell or other effect deals damage to more than one target at the same time, roll the damage once for all of them. For example, when a wizard casts fireball or a cleric casts flame strike, the spell's damage is rolled once for all creatures caught in the blast.
The part in blue is what JC was referencing, and I agree, he's referencing a rule that says one thing (roll damage once for all creatures that damaged by that effect at once) to stand for something else (individual bolts of a Magic Missile are instances of one damaging effect, not separate effects for each bolt). Not only does PHB 194 not say that, but its kind of an "out there" take... do all the bolts of a Eldritch Blast share the same d10 roll, even though they have separate to-hit rolls? Scorching Ray? If each bolt/ray is the same effect, and they're all hitting "at the same time," wouldn't that run afoul of the prohibition on combining magical effects, and cause only one bolt/ray to do damage?
I don't know that I've ever seen a DM or a player grab one d4 for a Magic Missile, or one d10 for an Eldritch Blast, and say "they take.... 2 damage, 4 times." There's probably somebody out there that's followed JC into the darkness and tried that, but, ugh it just chills me to the bone to even imagine it.
Many with evoker wizards do take JC's advice to heart. Since using overchannel on Magic Missile at 5th level means, with that ruling, its 10 force damage per dart (to include empowered evocation, assuming +5 int mod). Which means 70 force damage as auto-hit (unless Shield spell, which is reaction, which means you can just Counterspell it).
But yes, if we go by his word, then you only roll the 1d10 once for Eldritch Blast, and that result applies to each beam. Same for Scorching Rays rays. Because the rule only mentions when damaging more than one creature with no mention about attack rolls. Although, interestingly it only specifies when the spell damages multiple targets, if you focus all beams, rays, darts, whathaveyou, on one target then the rule technically stops applying so you have to wonder how you roll it.
Combining rule doesn't apply because even if it is multiple attack roles, it's only one spell. The combining rule only comes in for lasting effects from multiple sources, which isn't the case for m-missile/e-blast/s-ray.
And this is why if I homebrew similar spells I often specifically detail how I intend the rolls to happen - such as specifying individual damage roles per target or one roll, etc. The spellcasting rules were a bit too generic and not accounting for all effects.
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The difference between Eldritch Blast and Magic Missile is that Magic Missile specifies that each dart hits simultaneously. Eldritch Blast doesn't have that specification, so it doesn't get the one roll treatment.
Of course, I've heard of people that strictly use average damage for all of their damage rolls as a way to speed up play, in that case it's all moot.
Regardless of the ruling by the DM, the important thing is to be consistent with it. It's probably a good idea to address it at session zero or as soon as someone takes magic missile, that way they have an idea of what to expect. This will prevent them from thinking that they can get the full combo to work when the DM won't let them.
Edit: The reason why Magic Missile follows the one roll rule is because it has the ability to hit several creatures and the darts all hit simultaneously. It doesn't matter how many targets are hit since the power of the darts is generated at exactly the same time.
With Magic Missile, you have to assign the targets of each dart before you discover whether the damage will be enough to kill the creature. Eldritch Blast can send a beam, find out if the creature dies, send another, establish the results, etc. until the full number of beams have been used. If you intend to put all four beams into a creature, you aren't required to do so if the creature dies from the first two beams, you can switch targets.
Combining rule doesn't apply because even if it is multiple attack roles, it's only one spell. The combining rule only comes in for lasting effects from multiple sources, which isn't the case for m-missile/e-blast/s-ray.
The combining rule does not only come in for "lasting effects," it comes in whenever durations overlap. The DMG section (above Chases) perhaps phrases it a little more clearly? If the effect is "1d4+1 damage," and the duration is "instantaneous," but three darts inflict that effect "simultaneously," then we have a Combining Magical Effects problem.
Trying to split hairs between where a spell stops and the spell's "effect" begins gets a little navel gazey, so I'll just leave it at that and just offer that I think that if "the damage" of Magic Missile is 1d4+1, rather than three seperate 1d4+1 rolls, you have a problem with bolts not being able to combine on one target.
Combining rule doesn't apply because even if it is multiple attack roles, it's only one spell. The combining rule only comes in for lasting effects from multiple sources, which isn't the case for m-missile/e-blast/s-ray.
The combining rule does not only come in for "lasting effects," it comes in whenever durations overlap. The DMG section (above Chases) perhaps phrases it a little more clearly? If the effect is "1d4+1 damage," and the duration is "instantaneous," but three darts inflict that effect "simultaneously," then we have a Combining Magical Effects problem.
Trying to split hairs between where a spell stops and the spell's "effect" begins gets a little navel gazey, so I'll just leave it at that and just offer that I think that if "the damage" of Magic Missile is 1d4+1, rather than three seperate 1d4+1 rolls, you have a problem with bolts not being able to combine on one target.
Other than the fact that the spell specifically says that you can target 1 or several. Specific beats generic. Even if you are going to say that combining would come into effect, the spell itself says it wouldn't matter.
So as far as the order of scribes feature goes...how about using the awakened spellbook feature to change up defense spells?
“When you cast a wizard spell with a spell slot, you can temporarily replace its damage type with a type that appears in another spell in your spell- book, which magically alters the spell's formula for this casting only. The latter spell must be of the same level as the spell slot you expend.”
the feature mentions the ability to change damage types of spells, but doesn’t actually limit it to just damage dealing spells.
Defensive spells that reference damage types for resistance or even immunity would apply, even though most people seem to focus on the ability to deal damage in different ways.
Intellect fortress could be changed to various different damage types as required depending on the slot used to cast it. Could get a lot of the benefits that protection from energy provides at the same spell level but add in the saving throw advantage. Seems nice against dragons or other creatures that deal large amounts of elemental damage and make use of saves. upcasting it to level 4 seems like you could target multiple allies with it and replicate stoneskin for damage type.
flame arrow becomes more attractive with the ability to switch up those damage types too.
elemental bane may prove a bit more useful with the ability to expand to other damage types while maintaining the ability to target more creatures with upcasting.
fireshield becomes a lot more versatile with this feature too.
5th level spell slots could unlock force damage types if necessary with steel wind strike. Also unlocks psychic damage if necessary for upcasting damaging spells. Wall of fire changing to force or psychic damage sounds cool as hell.
The idea of a Fire Shield being a Lightning Shield, combined with Tempest Cleric 6 Thunderbolt Strike, becomes a nice way to bounce enemies off of you and replicate the Storm Sorcerer 14's Storm Sorcery without needing to use your Reaction!
I really like that idea of using Intellect Fortress to match any type of damage (like Bludgeoning!), I hadn't even considered defensive applications!
Here's a question... would a Scribe be able to substitute the element absorbed with an Absorb Elements reaction, to then spit out a damage of their choice from another spell in their book when it comes time to make an attack the following round? Or do you think the damage on that attack always has to mirror what was absorbed, with no opportunity to substitute?
Honestly that’s a pretty tough one for absorb elements. The timing would be weird because of its very specific trigger, and the rest of the language refers to that triggering type.
i think you could change the damage you deal even if it’s based on a trigger type. Changing the other instances might make the mechanics feel wonky just because it’s a reaction, and reactions can be complicated by themselves.
The feature says you can change damage types, so I guess once the trigger happens, you can choose to change that type and the rest would change because if that since the language draws directly from the trigger. Would be interesting to give up the resistance for a chance at more damage I suppose though. You could upcast slots for something that resembles elemental sneak die, though I’d still say that the resistance is the best part of that spell as far as bang for your buck goes.
some of the eberron races that add spells to your class could be useful. Upcasting armor of agathys and making it deal that lightning damage or force damage would be cool.
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The article on Order of the Scribes has had me wondering about what other elemental-focused subclasses could synergize with the Scribe Wizard's level 2 Awakened Spellbook element switching (for wizard spells only), beyond the Tempest Cleric. I don't really have a build in mind, was just wanting to brainstorm other similar element-seeking subclass features. Looking at spellcasting classes, I can think of:
Tempest Cleric 2: Destructive Wrath
Tempest Cleric 6: Thunderbolt Strike
Death Cleric 6: Inescapable DestructionWildfire Druid 6: Enhanced Bond
Draconic Sorcerer 6: Elemental Affinity
Storm Sorcerer 6: Heart of the Storm
Celestial Warlock 6: Radiant Soul
And we also have some elemental feats, including
Elemental Adept
Flames of Phlegethos (Tiefling)
Poisoner
In a vacuum, it looks like you could stack up to three level 6 elemental features, and the Wizard 2 feature... but that would only be useful for level 1 spells. Or, you could stack two level 6 features on a Wizard 8 and do tricks with up to fourth level spells. Or just nab one on a Wizard 14, and use it for up to 7th level spells.
Fire seems like it could actually be the runaway element here: ignore resistance (Elemental adept), reroll 1's and get a fire shield (Flames of Phlegethos), +Charisma to one damage roll (celestial warlock and/or draconic sorcerer), +d8 to all targets (Wildfire Druid). However, there's already so many fire spells out there, that it almost feels like you could have already built that character without the Scribe at all, just being a Druid/Sorc/Warlock or an Evoker/Sorc/Warlock for even better damage.
So... what am I missing, what's the angle here, what else can we do with this other than the maximizable Lightning or Thunder from Scribe/Tempest cleric, or the pyromancy from Scribe/Draconic/Celestial?
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Don't forget the Transmuted Spell metamagic for Sorcerer. You can use it to get effects from spells of one type of damage into your favored type, as long as it was one of the 6. It's like the awakened spellbook ability, but limited to those damage types for the cost of opening up your available spells. You'll want the majority of your spells to be of the favored damage type, but having a few others wouldn't hurt and ensuring that those were wizard spells would give you the greatest number available.
I did something similar with https://ddb.ac/characters/46953208/obJVGn with a sorcerer 12 warlock 8.
I could see a Scribe/Tempest/Storm Sorcerer being an interesting concept. You'd have to find the sweet spot where you had the spell levels that you wanted from wizard while hitting Cleric 6 or 8 and still getting enough storm sorcerer to make the damage spread strong enough. Or drop the scribe altogether and rely on transmuted spell.
Being able to mass push a group of creatures with a Fireball or something as simple as magic missile could be quite potent. Say Cast Magic Missile from scribe 2 and target creatures that are further away from you than the 10 ft. You can even quicken it if you wanted to Booming Blade on first. Now you've pushed creatures within 10 feet of you away 10 feet via the lightning damage from heart of the storm's synergy with Thundebolt Strike and Booming Blade can get one via thunderbolt strike, possibly to hard it into a more favorable position to get the shotgun effect from heart of the storm. The 3 possible targets from a 1st level magic missile can be used to herd other targets outside of that 10 feet into a more compact area and can be upcast to include additional targets.
Once they are packed in tight, they can be hit with a devastating AOE attack from another member of the party. They can be pushed into a cleric's Spirit Guardians (potentially yours with lighting damage thanks to Transmuted Spell, but not needed), across difficult terrain for further control (perhaps Spike Growth) or off a cliff. The damage at that point would almost be a moot point as you would simply control the battlefield. Shatter would be come a control spell. Change out Booming Blade for Shocking Grasp if you are worried about some one carrying Shield or Counterspell.
Don't like where you are at? Thunder Step to reposition... nearly everyone around you.
It sounds like at least 5 in scribe, 6 in tempest cleric and probably at least 6 in storm sorcerer, leaving 3 levels for a max level character to play with. You can pick your favorite lead in by going with free spell transmutation with scribe or the shotgun effect with storm sorcerer, only changing a few spells and focusing on natural lightning spells. If all you are doing is herding, you don't need to focus on damage dealing or enhancing feats, you can pick up mobility and survival. You would certainly draw a lot of fire with this type of build, even if you weren't dealing most of the damage. Bump your primary spellcasting stat first (likely intelligence or charisma, but possibly wisdom, whatever requires the most attacks to hit or is a save or suck spell) grab Warcaster to Booming Blade or Shocking grasp as an OA. Perhaps Resilient(Con) to get con save proficiency and increase HP. Perhaps Shield Master (since evasion is quite the dip without spell slot progression).
Hang out by your friendly Paladin, especially if she is an Ancients Paladin, and especially if her best friend is a Cavalier. See if you can get your Paladin friend to cast Warding Bond on you.
For the absolutely bone crushing version of this? Two levels of warlock for two more spell slots on a short rest in addition to anything you get from Wizard, the possibility of adding Hexblade for MADness easement if Booming Blade is a priority cantrip, Fiendish Vigor for more HP at will, an option for concentration save enhancement or something along those lines, and Devil's Sight. Have anyone cast Darkness on your shield, weapon, or spellcasting focus (extra points if it's a Shadow Sorcerer that will be the AOE machine) to give your enemies disadvantage on attacks against you and limit the save spells and abilities directed at you to those where it doesn't matter if they can see you. Tell your bodyguards to change their fighting style to blind fighting and then herd your enemies into a corner and BAM.
Another possibility with the 2 level warlock dip, EB with Agonizing Blast to give you a decent damage fall back against creatures that can't be herded or are immune to lighting damage.
Here's a level 17 version of that character concept. Getting two more levels in either of the level 6 options or 3 more in wizard would net another ASI. 2 to 3 in Warlock could also give some valid options, as mentioned above.
https://ddb.ac/characters/47200633/npD4Dr
Can you use wizard 2/wildfire 6/draconic sorcerer 6 as a thiefling to upcast a fire magic missile to a (1d4+1d8+Cha mod+1)x11 (9th lvl)?
Editing myself, it looks like you need a fire spell at the lvl you use the spellslot, so as a lvl 11 sorcerer that would be at 6th lvl max.
Attack: [roll]3d20dl2+6[/roll] Damage: [roll](if([roll:-1:critical], =0, 1d8, 2{1d8}.expand()))+4[/roll] Sneakattack: [roll](if([roll:-2:critical], =0, 2d6, 2{2d6}.expand()))[/roll]Yes!
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No. Wildfire adds 1d8 to one roll from the spell, just as Draconic adds CHA mod to one roll. The only ability you listed that will work on all 11 darts is if the Tiefling takes the Flames of Phlegethos feat, which will cause each dart to go from average 3.5 to average 3.875 (slightly better than elemental adept at 3.75 per dart). Elemental Adept also applies to all darts, and will stack with Phlegethos, letting you re-roll 1s and then if it's still a 1 you can count it as 2, so having both gets you average dart damage 3.9375. Since the 1d8 from Wildfire isn't a damage die, you can't apply either feat to it.
That means average damage done this way with all abilities at once is 3.9375*11 + 4.5 + 5 = 52.8125 fire damage that ignores fire resistance but not fire immunity. Significantly less than Meteor Swarm, so why bother? On the other hand, if your GM is willing to interpret your ability to work on individual damage types of a multi-type spell, you could certainly force Meteor Swarm to deal fire damage twice, letting your fire abilities apply to what used to be the bludgeoning half.
However, one of the myriad equally valid interpretations of the Scribes ability is that when you cast e.g. Prismatic Spray, each individual spray's type is individually assignable. As a corollary, your GM might allow you to modify each dart's type individually. This isn't useful for Tempest Cleric 2, which needs a channel divinity per dart to do anything useful, but Tempest Cleric 6 and Storm Sorcerer 6 both only need 1 lightning dart to function, just as Storm Sorcerers have always been able to trigger when casting Prismatic Spray.
Oh, and speaking of the bludgeoning from Meteor Swarm. Since these shenanigans work with any damage type, not just elemental ones, don't forget to add Crusher, Piercer, and Slasher to the feats list. All three only work if you make a spell attack (so not magic missile or meteor swarm, but yes to e.g. chromatic orb). The three feats are stackable - e.g. you could use Scorching Ray to shoot one ray of each type, assuming your GM is amenable.
Magic Missile should be 1 roll per RAW. It works if your GM rules it that way, but doesn't if they rule it as separate rolls for each dart.
https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/774030989894955008?lang=en
the same tweet is under sage advise: https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/10/17/magic-missile-do-you-roll-the-same-d4-for-all-darts/
I agree that it should not multiply, but if you go by RAW...
Attack: [roll]3d20dl2+6[/roll] Damage: [roll](if([roll:-1:critical], =0, 1d8, 2{1d8}.expand()))+4[/roll] Sneakattack: [roll](if([roll:-2:critical], =0, 2d6, 2{2d6}.expand()))[/roll]I am going by RAW. There's nothing on PHB196 stating you roll all the darts together - I have no idea what Jeremy is smoking. The only remotely relevant rule I see on PHB196 is the one for fireball, but that has issues - for starters, that rule, RAW, only applies if you have more than one target. RAW, it by definition doesn't interact if you throw all of your darts at one target. Even once you have multiple targets, it's physically impossible to apply that rule to Magic Missile, in general - e.g. suppose you hit Adam with two darts and Bob with one dart. It's physically impossible to roll the damage once for both of them - each of them is taking a distinct amount of damage. What are you supposed to do that doesn't violate the RAW? If you roll for one dart and have Adam take twice that amount, you're violating PHB 196, and if you roll for two darts and have Bob take half that amount, you're violating PHB 196. The only circumstance in which it's physically possible to roll magic missile in the same style as fireball is when every target is being hit with the same number of darts, and as I said, you need at least two targets for PHB 196's fireball-style rule to react.
Rules that are literally impossible to obey are as old as dnd, and we've always solved the problem by not obeying them. You could have magic missile behave wildly differently based on how many targets you have and how many darts per target, I suppose. I can't imagine any DM agreeing to that.
Peeve: rather than talking about "PHB 196" over and over again, or offering opinions on "RAW" without providing any "W" in your posts, it's always good etiquette to just link and quote language that you think matters. Quality posts generate quality discussion.
PHB Chapter 9, Damage and Healing, Damage Rolls:
The part in blue is what JC was referencing, and I agree, he's referencing a rule that says one thing (roll damage once for all creatures that damaged by that effect at once) to stand for something else (individual bolts of a Magic Missile are instances of one damaging effect, not separate effects for each bolt). Not only does PHB 194 not say that, but its kind of an "out there" take... do all the bolts of a Eldritch Blast share the same d10 roll, even though they have separate to-hit rolls? Scorching Ray? If each bolt/ray is the same effect, and they're all hitting "at the same time," wouldn't that run afoul of the prohibition on combining magical effects, and cause only one bolt/ray to do damage?
I don't know that I've ever seen a DM or a player grab one d4 for a Magic Missile, or one d10 for an Eldritch Blast, and say "they take.... 2 damage, 4 times." There's probably somebody out there that's followed JC into the darkness and tried that, but, ugh it just chills me to the bone to even imagine it.
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Many with evoker wizards do take JC's advice to heart. Since using overchannel on Magic Missile at 5th level means, with that ruling, its 10 force damage per dart (to include empowered evocation, assuming +5 int mod). Which means 70 force damage as auto-hit (unless Shield spell, which is reaction, which means you can just Counterspell it).
But yes, if we go by his word, then you only roll the 1d10 once for Eldritch Blast, and that result applies to each beam. Same for Scorching Rays rays. Because the rule only mentions when damaging more than one creature with no mention about attack rolls. Although, interestingly it only specifies when the spell damages multiple targets, if you focus all beams, rays, darts, whathaveyou, on one target then the rule technically stops applying so you have to wonder how you roll it.
Combining rule doesn't apply because even if it is multiple attack roles, it's only one spell. The combining rule only comes in for lasting effects from multiple sources, which isn't the case for m-missile/e-blast/s-ray.
And this is why if I homebrew similar spells I often specifically detail how I intend the rolls to happen - such as specifying individual damage roles per target or one roll, etc. The spellcasting rules were a bit too generic and not accounting for all effects.
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The difference between Eldritch Blast and Magic Missile is that Magic Missile specifies that each dart hits simultaneously. Eldritch Blast doesn't have that specification, so it doesn't get the one roll treatment.
Of course, I've heard of people that strictly use average damage for all of their damage rolls as a way to speed up play, in that case it's all moot.
Regardless of the ruling by the DM, the important thing is to be consistent with it. It's probably a good idea to address it at session zero or as soon as someone takes magic missile, that way they have an idea of what to expect. This will prevent them from thinking that they can get the full combo to work when the DM won't let them.
Edit: The reason why Magic Missile follows the one roll rule is because it has the ability to hit several creatures and the darts all hit simultaneously. It doesn't matter how many targets are hit since the power of the darts is generated at exactly the same time.
With Magic Missile, you have to assign the targets of each dart before you discover whether the damage will be enough to kill the creature. Eldritch Blast can send a beam, find out if the creature dies, send another, establish the results, etc. until the full number of beams have been used. If you intend to put all four beams into a creature, you aren't required to do so if the creature dies from the first two beams, you can switch targets.
The combining rule does not only come in for "lasting effects," it comes in whenever durations overlap. The DMG section (above Chases) perhaps phrases it a little more clearly? If the effect is "1d4+1 damage," and the duration is "instantaneous," but three darts inflict that effect "simultaneously," then we have a Combining Magical Effects problem.
Trying to split hairs between where a spell stops and the spell's "effect" begins gets a little navel gazey, so I'll just leave it at that and just offer that I think that if "the damage" of Magic Missile is 1d4+1, rather than three seperate 1d4+1 rolls, you have a problem with bolts not being able to combine on one target.
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Other than the fact that the spell specifically says that you can target 1 or several. Specific beats generic. Even if you are going to say that combining would come into effect, the spell itself says it wouldn't matter.
*Sidesteps magic missile debate*
So as far as the order of scribes feature goes...how about using the awakened spellbook feature to change up defense spells?
“When you cast a wizard spell with a spell slot, you can temporarily replace its damage type with a type that appears in another spell in your spell- book, which magically alters the spell's formula for this casting only. The latter spell must be of the same level as the spell slot you expend.”
the feature mentions the ability to change damage types of spells, but doesn’t actually limit it to just damage dealing spells.
Defensive spells that reference damage types for resistance or even immunity would apply, even though most people seem to focus on the ability to deal damage in different ways.
Intellect fortress could be changed to various different damage types as required depending on the slot used to cast it. Could get a lot of the benefits that protection from energy provides at the same spell level but add in the saving throw advantage. Seems nice against dragons or other creatures that deal large amounts of elemental damage and make use of saves.
upcasting it to level 4 seems like you could target multiple allies with it and replicate stoneskin for damage type.
flame arrow becomes more attractive with the ability to switch up those damage types too.
elemental bane may prove a bit more useful with the ability to expand to other damage types while maintaining the ability to target more creatures with upcasting.
fireshield becomes a lot more versatile with this feature too.
5th level spell slots could unlock force damage types if necessary with steel wind strike. Also unlocks psychic damage if necessary for upcasting damaging spells. Wall of fire changing to force or psychic damage sounds cool as hell.
The idea of a Fire Shield being a Lightning Shield, combined with Tempest Cleric 6 Thunderbolt Strike, becomes a nice way to bounce enemies off of you and replicate the Storm Sorcerer 14's Storm Sorcery without needing to use your Reaction!
I really like that idea of using Intellect Fortress to match any type of damage (like Bludgeoning!), I hadn't even considered defensive applications!
Here's a question... would a Scribe be able to substitute the element absorbed with an Absorb Elements reaction, to then spit out a damage of their choice from another spell in their book when it comes time to make an attack the following round? Or do you think the damage on that attack always has to mirror what was absorbed, with no opportunity to substitute?
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Honestly that’s a pretty tough one for absorb elements. The timing would be weird because of its very specific trigger, and the rest of the language refers to that triggering type.
i think you could change the damage you deal even if it’s based on a trigger type. Changing the other instances might make the mechanics feel wonky just because it’s a reaction, and reactions can be complicated by themselves.
The feature says you can change damage types, so I guess once the trigger happens, you can choose to change that type and the rest would change because if that since the language draws directly from the trigger. Would be interesting to give up the resistance for a chance at more damage I suppose though. You could upcast slots for something that resembles elemental sneak die, though I’d still say that the resistance is the best part of that spell as far as bang for your buck goes.
some of the eberron races that add spells to your class could be useful. Upcasting armor of agathys and making it deal that lightning damage or force damage would be cool.