Note: a key point is that the Party has yet to deal with large numbers of enemies and I plan to give them that during the BBG fight, but I don't want to wait until then for large numbers because I need an in-action reference point of where I failed to run it well. There is entirely too much explaining as to why but I need the final fight to go very well.
Large number doesn’t not necessarily mean harder or more lethal. A 17th level paladin can practically take on 250 orcs by themselves. Especially if they have good magic items
Are you sure about that? With a one in five chance to hit, the orcs will do over 300 damage on their first turn.
1) What makes you think they would have a 20 percent chance to hit? 2) How are they all getting attacks?
They have a 20% chance to hit if the paladin has AC 21
They have javelin as a ranged attack with a 30 ft range.
1. 21 AC is probably low at 17th level, even before you consider possibilities like the paladin having access to shield 2. A 13x13 box can contain a maximum of 169 orcs, and it would be strategic idiocy for even that many to be all packed into a tight space like that
I also wasn't factoring in crits. 1.5 This is only one turn and ignoring higher melee damage.
1d6+3 damage on javelins, 1d12+3 for great ax. Let’s not assume anything like adamantine armor or etc etc etc etc stuff. Let’s also settle on a specific subclass of paladin too.
for example: a level 17 conquest paladin, with a 0 con mod has around 106 hp. Let’s assume a 0 charisma mod too because why not. So normal saves basically. They can cast cloud kill centered on themselves- 20 ft radius. Dealing 5d8 poison (22 avg damage) on a failed save, and half as much on a success. To all the orcs within range. The cloud kill also creates an obscured view. So javelin throwing is worthless now.
plus that the paladin has 85hp points worth of healing they can do using lay hands. Not including using cure wounds or any other valuable resources.
the paladin can literally lay a cloud kill on themselves. and lay hands to heal 85 when needed. And this literally only uses 1 spell slot, they can still cast death ward on themselves and even if orcs survive the cloud kill or manage to hit, scornful rebuke deals damage to any orc that damages the paladin. Now a 0 charisma paladin scenario at level 17 seems ridiculous.
A 2024 oath of ancients paladin has undying sentinel, can cast ice storm (avg damage 9 bludgeon and 14 cold damage on failed save. Half as much on success to 20ft radius) 3 times. Additionally, the difficult terrain effect delays the orcs ability to restock their javelin throwers to those areas. On top of everything else a paladin could do like cast spiritual weapon, take the dodge action, let the spiritual weapon knock off the orcs 1 minute at a time.
again, these are assuming no “actual magic items” and just using stupid stuff like plate armor, shield, etc. and just normal stuff and dodge actions. Highly highly unrealistic for a level 17 character. This is also assuming absolutely NO FEATS of any kind.
For all we know, the paladin had heavy armor master. -3 to all damage sources from non magical or 2024 style -proficiency bonus to same scenario.
just casting spirit guardians on yourself and then dodging and wading through the orcs where every orc in a 15ft radius when it first enters that radius or starts its turn there needs to make a wisdom save taking 3d8 radiant or half as much on a success…. For a 10 minute duration of concentration.
just saying… like… level 17. You all sleep very hard on just how powerful that is compared to a 1/2 cr mob. Even in bulk those mobs cannot really do anything if the level 17 paladin at all has any time to not be ambushed by the 250 orcs.
So the party’s paladin is an oath of ancients. So let’s operate under that, and literally everyone else just sits back and watches.
so what does it have that it can utilize?
destructive wave, stone skin, death ward, ice storm, plant growth, misty step. Lay hands, Feline agility, the fact that dead orcs make for difficult terrain, undying sentinel, aura of warding.
They have a 20% chance to hit if the paladin has AC 21
They have javelin as a ranged attack with a 30 ft range.
1. 21 AC is probably low at 17th level, even before you consider possibilities like the paladin having access to shield 2. A 13x13 box can contain a maximum of 169 orcs, and it would be strategic idiocy for even that many to be all packed into a tight space like that
I also wasn't factoring in crits. 1.5 This is only one turn and ignoring higher melee damage.
1d6+3 damage on javelins, 1d12+3 for great ax. Let’s not assume anything like adamantine armor or etc etc etc etc stuff. Let’s also settle on a specific subclass of paladin too.
for example: a level 17 conquest paladin, with a 0 con mod has around 106 hp. Let’s assume a 0 charisma mod too because why not. So normal saves basically. They can cast cloud kill centered on themselves- 20 ft radius. Dealing 5d8 poison (22 avg damage) on a failed save, and half as much on a success. To all the orcs within range. The cloud kill also creates an obscured view. So javelin throwing is worthless now.
plus that the paladin has 85hp points worth of healing they can do using lay hands. Not including using cure wounds or any other valuable resources.
the paladin can literally lay a cloud kill on themselves. and lay hands to heal 85 when needed. And this literally only uses 1 spell slot, they can still cast death ward on themselves and even if orcs survive the cloud kill or manage to hit, scornful rebuke deals damage to any orc that damages the paladin. Now a 0 charisma paladin scenario at level 17 seems ridiculous.
A 2024 oath of ancients paladin has undying sentinel, can cast ice storm (avg damage 9 bludgeon and 14 cold damage on failed save. Half as much on success to 20ft radius) 3 times. Additionally, the difficult terrain effect delays the orcs ability to restock their javelin throwers to those areas. On top of everything else a paladin could do like cast spiritual weapon, take the dodge action, let the spiritual weapon knock off the orcs 1 minute at a time.
again, these are assuming no “actual magic items” and just using stupid stuff like plate armor, shield, etc. and just normal stuff and dodge actions. Highly highly unrealistic for a level 17 character. This is also assuming absolutely NO FEATS of any kind.
For all we know, the paladin had heavy armor master. -3 to all damage sources from non magical or 2024 style -proficiency bonus to same scenario.
just casting spirit guardians on yourself and then dodging and wading through the orcs where every orc in a 15ft radius when it first enters that radius or starts its turn there needs to make a wisdom save taking 3d8 radiant or half as much on a success…. For a 10 minute duration of concentration.
just saying… like… level 17. You all sleep very hard on just how powerful that is compared to a 1/2 cr mob. Even in bulk those mobs cannot really do anything if the level 17 paladin at all has any time to not be ambushed by the 250 orcs.
You cast cloudkill. 5/9 orcs are out of the range and throw javelins. The orcs all throw javelins and have the advantage from you being blinded cancels out the disadvantage from them having the blinded condition. 2/13 hit and deal 130 average damage.
Aaaaannndddd this is precisely why I need a solid plan of attack, pun intended. Yes, the Paladin is quite powerful right now. Add in the rest of the Party, and 250 Orcs, alone, will not be enough to drop Party HP. I will definitely use landscape "issues" and see about adding in other creatures, in order to give it a true battle feel and result, hopefully leaving the players actually sweating it, maybe feeling real life minor exhaustion. Assuming I achieve that goal, I won't give them time to recover much more than their lesser healing potions and a short rest will allow before they face the BBG.
mist be nice for combats to start with 250 assailants immediately in range eh?
so we going to assume the paladin casts cloudkill on themselves. Knows the spell. But is going to keep their eyes open? Triggering the blinded effect of it. When they KNOW that the cloud will move away from them on its own?
or… Lie prone… again… since they know the spell?
interesting. I love all the tedious things being thrown to try and make it feasible for the 250 orcs to win.
So, let's add in Eye of Gruumsh and War Chief. Maybe make it 400 Orcs, in groups of 100, each group having a War Chief and 2 or more Eye of Gruumsh. Say the groups are positioned at 9, 11, 1, and 3 on the clock. That's likely better odds of a challenge.
But remember: I also need them to be able to show up and attack without warning. At least, not visual warning. That's the biggest hurdle. It will be mid-afternoon on a clear sunny day when the encounter happens.
Do you need to break out a map and 250 orc minis, and see if you can fit them all within 30 feet of a paladin mini using a 5-foot grid?
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
So, let's add in Eye of Gruumsh and War Chief. Maybe make it 400 Orcs, in groups of 100, each group having a War Chief and 2 or more Eye of Gruumsh. Say the groups are positioned at 9, 11, 1, and 3 on the clock. That's likely better odds of a challenge.
But remember: I also need them to be able to show up and attack without warning. At least, not visual warning. That's the biggest hurdle.
How does the danger sense actually work? There must be some way to neutralize it
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
mist be nice for combats to start with 250 assailants immediately in range eh?
so we going to assume the paladin casts cloudkill on themselves. Knows the spell. But is going to keep their eyes open? Triggering the blinded effect of it. When they KNOW that the cloud will move away from them on its own?
or… Lie prone… again… since they know the spell?
interesting. I love all the tedious things being thrown to try and make it feasible for the 250 orcs to win.
They can also just run into melee with the paladin and do even more damage. Also, the orcs can attack from 120 feet away with their javelins and can run 30 ft towards a hostile creature on their turn as a bonus action.
So, let's add in Eye of Gruumsh and War Chief. Maybe make it 400 Orcs, in groups of 100, each group having a War Chief and 2 or more Eye of Gruumsh. Say the groups are positioned at 9, 11, 1, and 3 on the clock. That's likely better odds of a challenge.
But remember: I also need them to be able to show up and attack without warning. At least, not visual warning. That's the biggest hurdle.
How does the danger sense actually work? There must be some way to neutralize it
I think the OP is doing it wrong.
Danger Sense
At 2nd level, you gain an uncanny sense of when things nearby aren’t as they should be, giving you an edge when you dodge away from danger.
You have advantage on Dexterity saving throws against effects that you can see, such as traps and spells. To gain this benefit, you can’t be blinded , deafened , or incapacitated.
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"Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are to fast: I would catch it."
"I cannot comment on an ongoing investigation."
"Well of course I know that. What else is there? A kitten?"
"You'd like to think that, Wouldn't you?"
"What do you mean? An African or European swallow?"
So, let's add in Eye of Gruumsh and War Chief. Maybe make it 400 Orcs, in groups of 100, each group having a War Chief and 2 or more Eye of Gruumsh. Say the groups are positioned at 9, 11, 1, and 3 on the clock. That's likely better odds of a challenge.
But remember: I also need them to be able to show up and attack without warning. At least, not visual warning. That's the biggest hurdle.
How does the danger sense actually work? There must be some way to neutralize it
I think the OP is doing it wrong.
Danger Sense
At 2nd level, you gain an uncanny sense of when things nearby aren’t as they should be, giving you an edge when you dodge away from danger.
You have advantage on Dexterity saving throws against effects that you can see, such as traps and spells. To gain this benefit, you can’t be blinded , deafened , or incapacitated.
I think you need to let OP speak for themselves, since they already indicated there was some homebrew going on
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
So, let's add in Eye of Gruumsh and War Chief. Maybe make it 400 Orcs, in groups of 100, each group having a War Chief and 2 or more Eye of Gruumsh. Say the groups are positioned at 9, 11, 1, and 3 on the clock. That's likely better odds of a challenge.
But remember: I also need them to be able to show up and attack without warning. At least, not visual warning. That's the biggest hurdle.
How does the danger sense actually work? There must be some way to neutralize it
I think the OP is doing it wrong.
Danger Sense
At 2nd level, you gain an uncanny sense of when things nearby aren’t as they should be, giving you an edge when you dodge away from danger.
You have advantage on Dexterity saving throws against effects that you can see, such as traps and spells. To gain this benefit, you can’t be blinded , deafened , or incapacitated.
I think you need to let OP speak for themselves, since they already indicated there was some homebrew going on
My first D&D group literally made the exact mistake I suspect the OP did.
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"Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are to fast: I would catch it."
"I cannot comment on an ongoing investigation."
"Well of course I know that. What else is there? A kitten?"
"You'd like to think that, Wouldn't you?"
"What do you mean? An African or European swallow?"
Ok, first note: this will not work as a dress rehersal for a BBEG fight because mass combat vs solo-boss monster fights are completely different.
250 orcs vs 180 berserkers. Ideally the combat lasts ~4 rounds so it doesn't get too boring, and we need the party to feel important SO....
This part right here. That fight is more of an environmental factor than a real fight that you have to roll for. Describe it in the background - you can also have random combatants get in the way, throw a random rock/spear/javelin at the party, and change the battlefield into difficult terrain with bodies and blood.
Let the party have fun with area effects or other abilities also let them know the summoned allies are in the way.
Then when they think everything is fine, hit them with Ork Ninjas. Not all the Orks will attack from the front, some were already there waiting for the party to show up - who says magic is only the property of the party. The Ork shaman could have predicted they were going to arrive and prepare for it. Greater Invisibility long range snipers or melee assassins.
Change the map. Lift or drop the party. Turn areas into acid or lava.
Have the bad guys throw brown mold (increase the DC to 18 for half damage) or green slime.
So, let's add in Eye of Gruumsh and War Chief. Maybe make it 400 Orcs, in groups of 100, each group having a War Chief and 2 or more Eye of Gruumsh. Say the groups are positioned at 9, 11, 1, and 3 on the clock. That's likely better odds of a challenge.
But remember: I also need them to be able to show up and attack without warning. At least, not visual warning. That's the biggest hurdle. It will be mid-afternoon on a clear sunny day when the encounter happens.
Hence their arrival from underground riding purple worms.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Aaaaannndddd this is precisely why I need a solid plan of attack, pun intended. Yes, the Paladin is quite powerful right now. Add in the rest of the Party, and 250 Orcs, alone, will not be enough to drop Party HP. I will definitely use landscape "issues" and see about adding in other creatures, in order to give it a true battle feel and result, hopefully leaving the players actually sweating it, maybe feeling real life minor exhaustion. Assuming I achieve that goal, I won't give them time to recover much more than their lesser healing potions and a short rest will allow before they face the BBG.
(1) Why do you want your players to feel exhausted after the game? Sitting around while you roll 250 attacks and 250 saving throws for 4 round of combat will be exhausting, but it won't be fun at all.
(2) Why is your goal to drop party HP? If you want to drop party HP your best bet is some kind of curse on the mountain & surrounding area that deals unavoidable damage to all party members every hour that they climb. That will definitely achieve your goal, but it won't be fun or exciting. And it will just get completely undone at the SR.
What do you really want to achieve with this combat?
Aaaaannndddd this is precisely why I need a solid plan of attack, pun intended. Yes, the Paladin is quite powerful right now. Add in the rest of the Party, and 250 Orcs, alone, will not be enough to drop Party HP. I will definitely use landscape "issues" and see about adding in other creatures, in order to give it a true battle feel and result, hopefully leaving the players actually sweating it, maybe feeling real life minor exhaustion. Assuming I achieve that goal, I won't give them time to recover much more than their lesser healing potions and a short rest will allow before they face the BBG.
(1) Why do you want your players to feel exhausted after the game? Sitting around while you roll 250 attacks and 250 saving throws for 4 round of combat will be exhausting, but it won't be fun at all.
(2) Why is your goal to drop party HP? If you want to drop party HP your best bet is some kind of curse on the mountain & surrounding area that deals unavoidable damage to all party members every hour that they climb. That will definitely achieve your goal, but it won't be fun or exciting. And it will just get completely undone at the SR.
What do you really want to achieve with this combat?
"So far, the PCs have had nothing more than a scratch and I really want to dip my foot in the pool of PCs taking significant damage. While I still fear my BBEG combat will be weak and he'll go down in 2 or three rounds, maybe 4....I plan to present them a combat prior to that which will hopefully give them the sense they are not untouchable. The plan is to get their HP down far enough to be weakened to whatever degree when they face the BBEG. If nothing else they will be under pressure to protect the ever-squishy glass cannon Necromancer while trying to save their own skin." - OP
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"Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are to fast: I would catch it."
"I cannot comment on an ongoing investigation."
"Well of course I know that. What else is there? A kitten?"
"You'd like to think that, Wouldn't you?"
"What do you mean? An African or European swallow?"
Aaaaannndddd this is precisely why I need a solid plan of attack, pun intended. Yes, the Paladin is quite powerful right now. Add in the rest of the Party, and 250 Orcs, alone, will not be enough to drop Party HP. I will definitely use landscape "issues" and see about adding in other creatures, in order to give it a true battle feel and result, hopefully leaving the players actually sweating it, maybe feeling real life minor exhaustion. Assuming I achieve that goal, I won't give them time to recover much more than their lesser healing potions and a short rest will allow before they face the BBG.
(1) Why do you want your players to feel exhausted after the game? Sitting around while you roll 250 attacks and 250 saving throws for 4 round of combat will be exhausting, but it won't be fun at all.
(2) Why is your goal to drop party HP? If you want to drop party HP your best bet is some kind of curse on the mountain & surrounding area that deals unavoidable damage to all party members every hour that they climb. That will definitely achieve your goal, but it won't be fun or exciting. And it will just get completely undone at the SR.
What do you really want to achieve with this combat?
"So far, the PCs have had nothing more than a scratch and I really want to dip my foot in the pool of PCs taking significant damage. While I still fear my BBEG combat will be weak and he'll go down in 2 or three rounds, maybe 4....I plan to present them a combat prior to that which will hopefully give them the sense they are not untouchable. The plan is to get their HP down far enough to be weakened to whatever degree when they face the BBEG. If nothing else they will be under pressure to protect the ever-squishy glass cannon Necromancer while trying to save their own skin." - OP
To clarify, I'm saying that's a poor motivation for running a massive combat. What you get if you design a combat to simply drain the HP of the players is a boring slog of a combat where the players feel like they have almost no effect on the outcome. And if the OP allows the party a short rest between this combat and the BBEG combat then draining their HP was kind of pointless since they will get it all back during the SR.
Not to mention that this combat as described will not "give them a sense they are not untouchable" and it cannot do so, since the combat entails the party single-handedly mowing down 250 moots. It will give them the opposite feeling, that they are uber-powerful super heroes who can single-handedly defeat an entire army. Because that's what they just did.
Maybe I should explain what happened in the last combat.
20 monsters were taken out in less than one round with an area effect spell from the Necromancer. Different details each time but this is they way it's been for 17 levels and 18 months.
I'm not hell bent on hurting the party. I'm wanting to run a major combat that would ultimately cause hurt on the party so that I will know best how to run that type of combat.
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https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Orc#content
1d6+3 damage on javelins, 1d12+3 for great ax. Let’s not assume anything like adamantine armor or etc etc etc etc stuff. Let’s also settle on a specific subclass of paladin too.
for example: a level 17 conquest paladin, with a 0 con mod has around 106 hp. Let’s assume a 0 charisma mod too because why not. So normal saves basically. They can cast cloud kill centered on themselves- 20 ft radius. Dealing 5d8 poison (22 avg damage) on a failed save, and half as much on a success. To all the orcs within range. The cloud kill also creates an obscured view. So javelin throwing is worthless now.
plus that the paladin has 85hp points worth of healing they can do using lay hands. Not including using cure wounds or any other valuable resources.
the paladin can literally lay a cloud kill on themselves. and lay hands to heal 85 when needed. And this literally only uses 1 spell slot, they can still cast death ward on themselves and even if orcs survive the cloud kill or manage to hit, scornful rebuke deals damage to any orc that damages the paladin. Now a 0 charisma paladin scenario at level 17 seems ridiculous.
A 2024 oath of ancients paladin has undying sentinel, can cast ice storm (avg damage 9 bludgeon and 14 cold damage on failed save. Half as much on success to 20ft radius) 3 times. Additionally, the difficult terrain effect delays the orcs ability to restock their javelin throwers to those areas. On top of everything else a paladin could do like cast spiritual weapon, take the dodge action, let the spiritual weapon knock off the orcs 1 minute at a time.
again, these are assuming no “actual magic items” and just using stupid stuff like plate armor, shield, etc. and just normal stuff and dodge actions. Highly highly unrealistic for a level 17 character. This is also assuming absolutely NO FEATS of any kind.
For all we know, the paladin had heavy armor master. -3 to all damage sources from non magical or 2024 style -proficiency bonus to same scenario.
just casting spirit guardians on yourself and then dodging and wading through the orcs where every orc in a 15ft radius when it first enters that radius or starts its turn there needs to make a wisdom save taking 3d8 radiant or half as much on a success…. For a 10 minute duration of concentration.
just saying… like… level 17. You all sleep very hard on just how powerful that is compared to a 1/2 cr mob. Even in bulk those mobs cannot really do anything if the level 17 paladin at all has any time to not be ambushed by the 250 orcs.
Blank
So the party’s paladin is an oath of ancients. So let’s operate under that, and literally everyone else just sits back and watches.
so what does it have that it can utilize?
destructive wave, stone skin, death ward, ice storm, plant growth, misty step. Lay hands, Feline agility, the fact that dead orcs make for difficult terrain, undying sentinel, aura of warding.
again. Assuming no feats or magic items.
Blank
You cast cloudkill. 5/9 orcs are out of the range and throw javelins. The orcs all throw javelins and have the advantage from you being blinded cancels out the disadvantage from them having the blinded condition. 2/13 hit and deal 130 average damage.
Homebrew: dominance, The Necrotic
Extended signature
Aaaaannndddd this is precisely why I need a solid plan of attack, pun intended. Yes, the Paladin is quite powerful right now. Add in the rest of the Party, and 250 Orcs, alone, will not be enough to drop Party HP. I will definitely use landscape "issues" and see about adding in other creatures, in order to give it a true battle feel and result, hopefully leaving the players actually sweating it, maybe feeling real life minor exhaustion. Assuming I achieve that goal, I won't give them time to recover much more than their lesser healing potions and a short rest will allow before they face the BBG.
. No kidding…
mist be nice for combats to start with 250 assailants immediately in range eh?
so we going to assume the paladin casts cloudkill on themselves. Knows the spell. But is going to keep their eyes open? Triggering the blinded effect of it. When they KNOW that the cloud will move away from them on its own?
or… Lie prone… again… since they know the spell?
interesting. I love all the tedious things being thrown to try and make it feasible for the 250 orcs to win.
Blank
Blank
Likely doing 4 per
So, let's add in Eye of Gruumsh and War Chief. Maybe make it 400 Orcs, in groups of 100, each group having a War Chief and 2 or more Eye of Gruumsh. Say the groups are positioned at 9, 11, 1, and 3 on the clock. That's likely better odds of a challenge.
But remember: I also need them to be able to show up and attack without warning. At least, not visual warning. That's the biggest hurdle. It will be mid-afternoon on a clear sunny day when the encounter happens.
Do you need to break out a map and 250 orc minis, and see if you can fit them all within 30 feet of a paladin mini using a 5-foot grid?
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
How does the danger sense actually work? There must be some way to neutralize it
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
They can also just run into melee with the paladin and do even more damage. Also, the orcs can attack from 120 feet away with their javelins and can run 30 ft towards a hostile creature on their turn as a bonus action.
Homebrew: dominance, The Necrotic
Extended signature
I think the OP is doing it wrong.
Homebrew: dominance, The Necrotic
Extended signature
I think you need to let OP speak for themselves, since they already indicated there was some homebrew going on
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
My first D&D group literally made the exact mistake I suspect the OP did.
Homebrew: dominance, The Necrotic
Extended signature
This part right here. That fight is more of an environmental factor than a real fight that you have to roll for. Describe it in the background - you can also have random combatants get in the way, throw a random rock/spear/javelin at the party, and change the battlefield into difficult terrain with bodies and blood.
Let the party have fun with area effects or other abilities also let them know the summoned allies are in the way.
Then when they think everything is fine, hit them with Ork Ninjas. Not all the Orks will attack from the front, some were already there waiting for the party to show up - who says magic is only the property of the party. The Ork shaman could have predicted they were going to arrive and prepare for it. Greater Invisibility long range snipers or melee assassins.
Change the map. Lift or drop the party. Turn areas into acid or lava.
Have the bad guys throw brown mold (increase the DC to 18 for half damage) or green slime.
Purple Worm With Black Pudding inside the stomach.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Hence their arrival from underground riding purple worms.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
(1) Why do you want your players to feel exhausted after the game? Sitting around while you roll 250 attacks and 250 saving throws for 4 round of combat will be exhausting, but it won't be fun at all.
(2) Why is your goal to drop party HP? If you want to drop party HP your best bet is some kind of curse on the mountain & surrounding area that deals unavoidable damage to all party members every hour that they climb. That will definitely achieve your goal, but it won't be fun or exciting. And it will just get completely undone at the SR.
What do you really want to achieve with this combat?
"So far, the PCs have had nothing more than a scratch and I really want to dip my foot in the pool of PCs taking significant damage. While I still fear my BBEG combat will be weak and he'll go down in 2 or three rounds, maybe 4....I plan to present them a combat prior to that which will hopefully give them the sense they are not untouchable. The plan is to get their HP down far enough to be weakened to whatever degree when they face the BBEG. If nothing else they will be under pressure to protect the ever-squishy glass cannon Necromancer while trying to save their own skin." - OP
Homebrew: dominance, The Necrotic
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To clarify, I'm saying that's a poor motivation for running a massive combat. What you get if you design a combat to simply drain the HP of the players is a boring slog of a combat where the players feel like they have almost no effect on the outcome. And if the OP allows the party a short rest between this combat and the BBEG combat then draining their HP was kind of pointless since they will get it all back during the SR.
Not to mention that this combat as described will not "give them a sense they are not untouchable" and it cannot do so, since the combat entails the party single-handedly mowing down 250 moots. It will give them the opposite feeling, that they are uber-powerful super heroes who can single-handedly defeat an entire army. Because that's what they just did.
Maybe I should explain what happened in the last combat.
20 monsters were taken out in less than one round with an area effect spell from the Necromancer. Different details each time but this is they way it's been for 17 levels and 18 months.
I'm not hell bent on hurting the party. I'm wanting to run a major combat that would ultimately cause hurt on the party so that I will know best how to run that type of combat.