I would like to play a character with a background of being a vigilante archer going round the city streets at night watching for criminals and when he finds anyone killing them on site and disappearing into the shadows.
In game he would adopt a similar style trying to kill things without being seen either due to being hidden in the shadows or as the enemies are distracted by his colleagues.
The question is would this sort of roll be best to play as an assassin rogue or a gloomstalker ranger both from roleplay and from a mechanical point of view. Would you recommend multiclassing and if so how should I best level (I am new to DnD having only played about half a dozen one shots).
I would also welcome advice on the best options to take to be an effective party member.
The Gloomstalker can grant darkvision if you don't have it or increases your darkvision if you already have it. You will be invisible to enemies that need to use darkvision to see you (pitch black darkness is your ally). You get a bonus to your initiative and going ahead of the enemy means you get extra 10 ft movement, an extra attack that deals and additional 1d8 damage on it, advantage to all your attacks and access to spells like Disguise Self and Pass Without Trace. And a fighting style.
The Assassin gets you expertise on stealth, hiding as a bonus action, additional 2d6 damage through sneak attack, proficiency with poisoner kit (basically you get to make poisons for half the cost to buy them), and if you surprise an enemy and go before them you also get advantage on all attacks, and EVERY HIT IS A CRITICAL.
You're going the archer route so with this and I highly recommend Wood Elf or Mark of Shadow Elf. Let's say wood elf and this means you will get a minimum +3 dex mod, and +3 wisdom mod. You get two ASIs so let us say you chose Alert and Sharpshooter and your weapon is a longbow.
You can use expertise and Pass Without Trace to get a +19 bonus to stealth, you will be invisible in darkness, you will have 90 ft darkvision and can shoot up to 600 ft away without disadvantage. You will have +11 bonus to initiative. If you surprise the enemy you get 2 attacks with advantage and can use sharpshooter for more damage so if you hit on both then your damage would be: 6d8 + 4d6 + 26 (all hits are critical, yay assassinate) which is an average of 65 damage. You can then hide as your bonus, move 40 ft and the target if still alive will not be able to really do much and you can attack next turn with sneak attack again rinsing and repeating easily. On the next level you can choose a ranger level to get an Extra Attack which would mean 3 attacks with auto-crit on first turn surprises.
All of what cyb3rm1nd said is great advice. A mix of gloomstalker and assassin would be great fun and really play into the background you're going for. I might suggest taking at least 5 levels in ranger, though, as you'll get a second attack. The levels in rogue give you extra damage, expertise, and cunning action. There's a lot to be gained from just 2 levels in rogue. That said, I think the ranger class offers plenty that I think you'll be satisfied without multi classing for several levels. I wouldn't take more than 1 or 2 levels in rogue before you get the ranger's 2ns attack. Rangers also get spells which will give you more versatility both in and out of combat.
Hi. Is this a 1st level character? In terms of roleplay the two are basically the same thing, so you don't have to take that into account as far as I am concerned :)
When it comes to gameplay, I recommend Assassin 11 / Gloomstalker 5 / Battlemaster 3 / Something 1.
In the beginning I would take levels as following:
1Fighter 2Rogue 3Rogue 4Rogue 5Ranger 6Ranger 7Ranger 8Ranger 9Ranger 10+Rogue/Fighter for the rest.
This gives you well balanced saves (dex from stats, and con from proficiency), and quickly puts you in the assassin playstyle (rogue). After getting the key assassin feature at rogue3, you go full rogue 5 for bonus attack, yet an extra attack when surprising (which is when assassins excel), bonus spells and so on.
My only concern about fighter is it it could make him too powerful. For a character who's method is to strike from the shadows rather than in a face to face fight starting as a fighter and especially going battle master rather than something like scout is very much at the "how do create a character that is a s powerful as possible" which some regard as against the spirt of the game rather than I have this idea for a character would be a sensible way for them to progress within the D&D mechanics.
If I multiclass I'll probably target ending up at Rogue 12/Ranger 8 but there are so many cool things in the first 5 levels of each I still haven't decided what order to take them.
Most of the advice has been pretty good, but I'll offer an unconventional option. Replace gloomstalker with warlock and reflavor Eldritch Blast as a bow (Or lean into being a wandslinger). You can cast and see through magical darkness so you don't need to hope there is some available, can hex your enemies, and can add pushing/pulling/slowing to your ranged attacks which do great damage anyway.
I respectfully disagree that fighter is breaking roleplaying-logic. After all, fighter is a very broad term or anyone who is good with weapons (ink bow), and almost all assassins in fiction etc. are basically super-fighters.
When I GM I would lift an eyebrow if someone went cleric without beeing religious, warlock without a patron, or as mentioned above - said eldritch blast were arrows (I might be okay if it was reflavoured as some sort of steam-punk artificer-gun), but I would not mind what I see as a very logical and classic multiclass :)
From a rules/optimization point of view it is quite important for the build though, since it 1/short rest takes you from 3 auto-crit attacks to 6 auto-crit attacks (surprise+assassin+action surge), and gives maneuvers that allow out-of-turn sneak attack and granting yourself advantage via making enemies prone.
Remember also that scout is a rogue subclass, so you would lose Assassin to go scout, which hardly makes more sense flavourwise.
If you want to go Ranger/Rogue I would suggest Gloomstalker 5 / Assassin 15. Ranger 6 is a dead level, and the lv 7 ability is gained at rogue 15 while retaining sneak attack progression and a pretty good Archetype ability at lv 13.
I'm quite interested by the Gloomwalker/Assassin combo and am researching a character for a new campaign right now. Assuming just Ranger/Rogue and no Warlock or Fighter dips, what would be the suggested order of taking these two classes?
Hard to say, but I would end at Ranger 5 / Rogue 15, and I would be Rogue 3/ Ranger 5 by level 8. A more exact breakdown becomes very much a choice of preference.
For reference, I play a Fighter1/Assassin3/Ranger3 right now.
Just a matter of choice. What do you prefer: (+1 HP, Str save, medium armor/shield proficiency) or (+1 skill, Int save)?
Given how I play I would probably start rogue (skills matter), but if you play purely for combat power the shield proficiency is worth a lot. This choice is much harder if you add fighter into the mix, since they get Con save which is great.
I'm actually surprised that I came across this thread because I was thinking along the same lines as far as multiclassing and have done a little bit of research to determine the best route to go about doing this.
In fact, there are a lot of people who think this combo is not as good as GS / Scout, which I disagree with. At 3rd level Scout, you get expertise in Nature and Survival but I find that DMs rarely have anyone roll Nature and Survival checks and the utility is over exaggerated when compared to the first round damage available to you due to Assassin. I think that Assassinate is worth the Rogue dip. However, with that being said, the long term of Gloom Stalker outperforms the long term of Assassin almost instantly. 5 levels of Ranger grants you a second attack, which dramatically increases your damage per round and allows you to keep your utility in battles. In fact, I've seen recommendations that you shouldn't take your multiclass in Rogue until you hit level 5 and get that Extra Attack, and I agree. This allows you, at level 5, to still be a viable combat character and not be overly reliant on your party for damage output.
As far as further leveling goes, I don't recommend any more than 3 levels in Assassin. If you go 4 in Assassin you're giving up potential 5th level spells like Swift Quiver, which effectively doubles your DPR. Furthermore the Gloom Stalker abilities, like Iron Mind and Shadowy Dodge, give you much more utility than the very situational abilities of the Assassin, like Infiltration Expertise and Imposter.
As for roleplay potential - this is only limited by your imagination. There's nothing saying that you couldn't be a nighttime vigilante and a Draconic Sorcerer at the same time, and I know more than one DnDer who can take the absolutely absurd and turn it into lovable and memorable characters. With my final recommendation being GS 17 / Assassin 3, I hope that this has cleared some things up for you. Let me know if there's anything I said that needs clarification or follow up and I'll do my best to provide!
I went Ranger 1st to 5th lvl, where I am at now. V. human with starting feat Crossbow Expert, went sharpshooter at lvl 4. I need to put 2 points in DEX as the campaign he is in was rolled stats. I am going Rogue next to be a Swashbuckler, then getting CHA up to at least 13 then going bard. With his hand crossbow and at this time a +8 to going first he will have another +1 to going faster then bard lvl 2 gets half his prof to going first :) Link below to show really having fun with him, when he first turned lvl 5 and got that 2nd attack we had to rush a room with Goblins and Hobgoblins it won Ini and n1st round as just using hand crossbow got 4 attacks all taken at the -5 for +10 damage and hit AC 18 on the lowest attack roll and killed 4 out of 4 goblins. it was fun
Both, but ironically if you really want to maximize the effects of Gloomstalker and Assassin (and they're really fantastic so why wouldn't you), the best approach is to get your 4 attacks/round ASAP via Fighter 11 and some feats.
Wood Elf 11 Battlemaster/5Assassin/3GloomStalker/1Hexblade with a hand crossbow and Elven Accuracy+Crossbow Expert+Sharpshooter.
(Live in Stealth) Hex Curse+Hex and Action Surge on the surprise round for 8 super advantaged crits and blow up just about anything in the Monster Manual before the first round. The 2% of monsters that survive that die on round 1.
If you want to be thematic and non fighter, Ranger 5 gives you 4x 1st level spells asn 2x 2nd. You may as well go to 5th to get the 2nd attack as soon as possible.
So first to 5th, variant human ranger. crossbow expert feat, that provides you two attacks at level 1 at 30' and you might want a shortbow for longer engagements for now and of course take archery fighting style for +2 to hit
4th level sharpshooter, yes it hurts giving up the increased to hit, not so much the damage. you now have 2 crossbow shots at 120' ignoring cover and the shortbow is retired.
At 5th one of your 2nd spells should be darkvision, it grants 60' darkvision for 8hours, so 90' to you (120' if you snag goggles of darkvision - yay exactly your crossbow range.)
Now at 5th level you have 2 attacks, 1 bonus, and on the first round an extra attack. In the dark you are probably invisible and so have advantage. Sharpshooter and hunters mark means you are capable of an opening volley of 8d6, or 8d6+40 without stat modifiers - the advantage should negate the low to hit rolls, but expect to miss.
Next 3 level of fighter. At 2nd level (your 7th) action surge cheese clears the room. Gloomstalkers extra attack in the first round is when you take an attack action, so your first volley at 120' is 2regular+1gloom +1bonus +action surge for 2+1gloom. Seven attacks. (with +10 damage from sharpshooter each. If you dont kill the thing, walk off quietly back to the party and report you have found something and that someone shot it with crossbow bolts.
How can you use hunters mark stealthily? It requires verbal components on cast - ON CAST. One box of ants, before scouting hunters mark one ant, crush it. you may now as a bonus action may reapply hunters mark - silently. Before combat move to 90' place on hunters mark and do not engage, combat has not started, next turn is when you begin your attack.
Now you can take the third level of fighter and go for arcane archer, but probably battlemaster makes more sense for the extra uses per short rest. After, its 3 levels of rogue for the 2nd benefit from Assassinate (you dont need the first in the dark you already have advantage for being invisible) the second advantage is automatic criticals on surprised targets. Not much but you have 4 to 7 attacks at 2d6 an attack (hunters mark) so an opening volley potential of 16d6+40 or 28d6+70+ attribute modifier x7 you are level 11. (5/3/3)
You are an innately selfish build, requiring distance from the party and night / underground attacks to function at maximum efficiency, but your biggest crime against party play is that its is possible to exterminate some encounters on your own and if you succeed repeat that again increasing the time the rest of the group can do nothing except wait. For that reason be cautious if you plan to go this route.
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I would like to play a character with a background of being a vigilante archer going round the city streets at night watching for criminals and when he finds anyone killing them on site and disappearing into the shadows.
In game he would adopt a similar style trying to kill things without being seen either due to being hidden in the shadows or as the enemies are distracted by his colleagues.
The question is would this sort of roll be best to play as an assassin rogue or a gloomstalker ranger both from roleplay and from a mechanical point of view. Would you recommend multiclassing and if so how should I best level (I am new to DnD having only played about half a dozen one shots).
I would also welcome advice on the best options to take to be an effective party member.
4th level Gloomstalker with 4th Level Assassin.
The Gloomstalker can grant darkvision if you don't have it or increases your darkvision if you already have it. You will be invisible to enemies that need to use darkvision to see you (pitch black darkness is your ally). You get a bonus to your initiative and going ahead of the enemy means you get extra 10 ft movement, an extra attack that deals and additional 1d8 damage on it, advantage to all your attacks and access to spells like Disguise Self and Pass Without Trace. And a fighting style.
The Assassin gets you expertise on stealth, hiding as a bonus action, additional 2d6 damage through sneak attack, proficiency with poisoner kit (basically you get to make poisons for half the cost to buy them), and if you surprise an enemy and go before them you also get advantage on all attacks, and EVERY HIT IS A CRITICAL.
You're going the archer route so with this and I highly recommend Wood Elf or Mark of Shadow Elf. Let's say wood elf and this means you will get a minimum +3 dex mod, and +3 wisdom mod. You get two ASIs so let us say you chose Alert and Sharpshooter and your weapon is a longbow.
You can use expertise and Pass Without Trace to get a +19 bonus to stealth, you will be invisible in darkness, you will have 90 ft darkvision and can shoot up to 600 ft away without disadvantage. You will have +11 bonus to initiative. If you surprise the enemy you get 2 attacks with advantage and can use sharpshooter for more damage so if you hit on both then your damage would be: 6d8 + 4d6 + 26 (all hits are critical, yay assassinate) which is an average of 65 damage. You can then hide as your bonus, move 40 ft and the target if still alive will not be able to really do much and you can attack next turn with sneak attack again rinsing and repeating easily. On the next level you can choose a ranger level to get an Extra Attack which would mean 3 attacks with auto-crit on first turn surprises.
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All of what cyb3rm1nd said is great advice. A mix of gloomstalker and assassin would be great fun and really play into the background you're going for. I might suggest taking at least 5 levels in ranger, though, as you'll get a second attack. The levels in rogue give you extra damage, expertise, and cunning action. There's a lot to be gained from just 2 levels in rogue. That said, I think the ranger class offers plenty that I think you'll be satisfied without multi classing for several levels. I wouldn't take more than 1 or 2 levels in rogue before you get the ranger's 2ns attack. Rangers also get spells which will give you more versatility both in and out of combat.
Hi. Is this a 1st level character? In terms of roleplay the two are basically the same thing, so you don't have to take that into account as far as I am concerned :)
When it comes to gameplay, I recommend Assassin 11 / Gloomstalker 5 / Battlemaster 3 / Something 1.
In the beginning I would take levels as following:
1Fighter
2Rogue
3Rogue
4Rogue
5Ranger
6Ranger
7Ranger
8Ranger
9Ranger
10+Rogue/Fighter for the rest.
This gives you well balanced saves (dex from stats, and con from proficiency), and quickly puts you in the assassin playstyle (rogue). After getting the key assassin feature at rogue3, you go full rogue 5 for bonus attack, yet an extra attack when surprising (which is when assassins excel), bonus spells and so on.
Thanks for the advice.
My only concern about fighter is it it could make him too powerful. For a character who's method is to strike from the shadows rather than in a face to face fight starting as a fighter and especially going battle master rather than something like scout is very much at the "how do create a character that is a s powerful as possible" which some regard as against the spirt of the game rather than I have this idea for a character would be a sensible way for them to progress within the D&D mechanics.
If I multiclass I'll probably target ending up at Rogue 12/Ranger 8 but there are so many cool things in the first 5 levels of each I still haven't decided what order to take them.
Most of the advice has been pretty good, but I'll offer an unconventional option. Replace gloomstalker with warlock and reflavor Eldritch Blast as a bow (Or lean into being a wandslinger). You can cast and see through magical darkness so you don't need to hope there is some available, can hex your enemies, and can add pushing/pulling/slowing to your ranged attacks which do great damage anyway.
I respectfully disagree that fighter is breaking roleplaying-logic. After all, fighter is a very broad term or anyone who is good with weapons (ink bow), and almost all assassins in fiction etc. are basically super-fighters.
When I GM I would lift an eyebrow if someone went cleric without beeing religious, warlock without a patron, or as mentioned above - said eldritch blast were arrows (I might be okay if it was reflavoured as some sort of steam-punk artificer-gun), but I would not mind what I see as a very logical and classic multiclass :)
From a rules/optimization point of view it is quite important for the build though, since it 1/short rest takes you from 3 auto-crit attacks to 6 auto-crit attacks (surprise+assassin+action surge), and gives maneuvers that allow out-of-turn sneak attack and granting yourself advantage via making enemies prone.
Remember also that scout is a rogue subclass, so you would lose Assassin to go scout, which hardly makes more sense flavourwise.
If you want to go Ranger/Rogue I would suggest Gloomstalker 5 / Assassin 15. Ranger 6 is a dead level, and the lv 7 ability is gained at rogue 15 while retaining sneak attack progression and a pretty good Archetype ability at lv 13.
I'm quite interested by the Gloomwalker/Assassin combo and am researching a character for a new campaign right now. Assuming just Ranger/Rogue and no Warlock or Fighter dips, what would be the suggested order of taking these two classes?
Thanks,
Blakey
My Homebrew World: The World of Rodinia
Novels Published: Reynard's Fate, Kita's Honour and Callindrill
Hard to say, but I would end at Ranger 5 / Rogue 15, and I would be Rogue 3/ Ranger 5 by level 8. A more exact breakdown becomes very much a choice of preference.
For reference, I play a Fighter1/Assassin3/Ranger3 right now.
What class at 1st and why?
My Homebrew World: The World of Rodinia
Novels Published: Reynard's Fate, Kita's Honour and Callindrill
Just a matter of choice. What do you prefer: (+1 HP, Str save, medium armor/shield proficiency) or (+1 skill, Int save)?
Given how I play I would probably start rogue (skills matter), but if you play purely for combat power the shield proficiency is worth a lot. This choice is much harder if you add fighter into the mix, since they get Con save which is great.
Thanks. :)
My Homebrew World: The World of Rodinia
Novels Published: Reynard's Fate, Kita's Honour and Callindrill
I'm actually surprised that I came across this thread because I was thinking along the same lines as far as multiclassing and have done a little bit of research to determine the best route to go about doing this.
In fact, there are a lot of people who think this combo is not as good as GS / Scout, which I disagree with. At 3rd level Scout, you get expertise in Nature and Survival but I find that DMs rarely have anyone roll Nature and Survival checks and the utility is over exaggerated when compared to the first round damage available to you due to Assassin. I think that Assassinate is worth the Rogue dip. However, with that being said, the long term of Gloom Stalker outperforms the long term of Assassin almost instantly. 5 levels of Ranger grants you a second attack, which dramatically increases your damage per round and allows you to keep your utility in battles. In fact, I've seen recommendations that you shouldn't take your multiclass in Rogue until you hit level 5 and get that Extra Attack, and I agree. This allows you, at level 5, to still be a viable combat character and not be overly reliant on your party for damage output.
As far as further leveling goes, I don't recommend any more than 3 levels in Assassin. If you go 4 in Assassin you're giving up potential 5th level spells like Swift Quiver, which effectively doubles your DPR. Furthermore the Gloom Stalker abilities, like Iron Mind and Shadowy Dodge, give you much more utility than the very situational abilities of the Assassin, like Infiltration Expertise and Imposter.
As for roleplay potential - this is only limited by your imagination. There's nothing saying that you couldn't be a nighttime vigilante and a Draconic Sorcerer at the same time, and I know more than one DnDer who can take the absolutely absurd and turn it into lovable and memorable characters. With my final recommendation being GS 17 / Assassin 3, I hope that this has cleared some things up for you. Let me know if there's anything I said that needs clarification or follow up and I'll do my best to provide!
"XANATHAR, YOU HAVE FAILED THIS CITY!"
I went Ranger 1st to 5th lvl, where I am at now. V. human with starting feat Crossbow Expert, went sharpshooter at lvl 4. I need to put 2 points in DEX as the campaign he is in was rolled stats. I am going Rogue next to be a Swashbuckler, then getting CHA up to at least 13 then going bard. With his hand crossbow and at this time a +8 to going first he will have another +1 to going faster then bard lvl 2 gets half his prof to going first :) Link below to show really having fun with him, when he first turned lvl 5 and got that 2nd attack we had to rush a room with Goblins and Hobgoblins it won Ini and n1st round as just using hand crossbow got 4 attacks all taken at the -5 for +10 damage and hit AC 18 on the lowest attack roll and killed 4 out of 4 goblins. it was fun
ddb.ac/characters/4528035/FOVaEC
Both, but ironically if you really want to maximize the effects of Gloomstalker and Assassin (and they're really fantastic so why wouldn't you), the best approach is to get your 4 attacks/round ASAP via Fighter 11 and some feats.
Wood Elf 11 Battlemaster/5Assassin/3GloomStalker/1Hexblade with a hand crossbow and Elven Accuracy+Crossbow Expert+Sharpshooter.
(Live in Stealth) Hex Curse+Hex and Action Surge on the surprise round for 8 super advantaged crits and blow up just about anything in the Monster Manual before the first round. The 2% of monsters that survive that die on round 1.
If you want to be thematic and non fighter, Ranger 5 gives you 4x 1st level spells asn 2x 2nd. You may as well go to 5th to get the 2nd attack as soon as possible.
So first to 5th, variant human ranger. crossbow expert feat, that provides you two attacks at level 1 at 30' and you might want a shortbow for longer engagements for now and of course take archery fighting style for +2 to hit
4th level sharpshooter, yes it hurts giving up the increased to hit, not so much the damage. you now have 2 crossbow shots at 120' ignoring cover and the shortbow is retired.
At 5th one of your 2nd spells should be darkvision, it grants 60' darkvision for 8hours, so 90' to you (120' if you snag goggles of darkvision - yay exactly your crossbow range.)
Now at 5th level you have 2 attacks, 1 bonus, and on the first round an extra attack. In the dark you are probably invisible and so have advantage. Sharpshooter and hunters mark means you are capable of an opening volley of 8d6, or 8d6+40 without stat modifiers - the advantage should negate the low to hit rolls, but expect to miss.
Next 3 level of fighter. At 2nd level (your 7th) action surge cheese clears the room. Gloomstalkers extra attack in the first round is when you take an attack action, so your first volley at 120' is 2regular+1gloom +1bonus +action surge for 2+1gloom. Seven attacks. (with +10 damage from sharpshooter each. If you dont kill the thing, walk off quietly back to the party and report you have found something and that someone shot it with crossbow bolts.
How can you use hunters mark stealthily? It requires verbal components on cast - ON CAST. One box of ants, before scouting hunters mark one ant, crush it. you may now as a bonus action may reapply hunters mark - silently. Before combat move to 90' place on hunters mark and do not engage, combat has not started, next turn is when you begin your attack.
Now you can take the third level of fighter and go for arcane archer, but probably battlemaster makes more sense for the extra uses per short rest. After, its 3 levels of rogue for the 2nd benefit from Assassinate (you dont need the first in the dark you already have advantage for being invisible) the second advantage is automatic criticals on surprised targets. Not much but you have 4 to 7 attacks at 2d6 an attack (hunters mark) so an opening volley potential of 16d6+40 or 28d6+70+ attribute modifier x7 you are level 11. (5/3/3)
You are an innately selfish build, requiring distance from the party and night / underground attacks to function at maximum efficiency, but your biggest crime against party play is that its is possible to exterminate some encounters on your own and if you succeed repeat that again increasing the time the rest of the group can do nothing except wait. For that reason be cautious if you plan to go this route.