Edit: Originally this post was about a Lycan Blood Hunter Crossbow Build, but after all the help from you guys and the Blood Hunter Handbook I've decided to go with a Blood Hunter Profane Soul Crossbow Build, for a combo of sustainable DPR and casting. Here's the build:
Base stat rolls: 16,15,15,13,12,6
Stat Priorities: Best to Worst
DEX - "AC, damage, many skills, the ever so common dexterity saves, and of course, initiative." from Blood Hunter Handbook
WIS = Casting stat for profane
CON = Health
INT/CHA = For RP
STR = Dump Stat
With all bonuses at lvl 1 that looks like:
6 st, 17 dex, 15 con, 13 int, 16 wis, 12 cha
16 AC
+3 Init.
12 HP
Variant Human
Urban Bounty Hunter BG (fits the RP - stealth, deception and thieves tools)
Hand-crossbow with
Crossbow Expert feat at lvl 1 for bonus attack,
Sharpshooter feat at lvl 4 for the increased range and potential +10 dmg (-5 to hit)
Next focus on maxing Dex (or Res:Dex), and then Wisdom for ASIs thereafter
Patron: Archfey
"Great for archery builds, especially if feats are unavailable, and even then, the ability to cancel out invisibility for a turn is fantastic as well."
"Blur is a great spell to have in your pocket for melee and ranged combatants alike."
Hey guys, I've looked everywhere for an experienced guide on lycan blood hunter crossbow builds.
Some Background:
I'll be starting a new campaign lvl 1-10 soon (currently the DM has not disclosed which one) but I like the surprise so the focus here will be more general sustainable DPR, as baddies and environments are unknown atm.
Having played a lot of moon druid, I can only expect the 2x lycan transformations at 10 mins will be short-lived, and my party tends to face many battles between rests, so I'd like to save those transformations and Rites for boss battles (mostly) and have something sustainable for the rest, hence the hand crossbow build for everything else.
It's not my place to tell you what you should play, but I'm having a hard time squaring the image of a transforming were-creature with a standoff ranged attacker for anything other than purely mechanical reasons. If that's your goal, then it's your prerogative certainly.
I'm having a hard time squaring the image of a transforming were-creature with a standoff ranged attacker for anything other than purely mechanical reasons.
You mean in terms of RP? Imagine a fiend/undead slayer type with crossbow, like a van helsing. But when the going gets tough and he's cornered or party members need some extra power, he "becomes what he hunts" and hulks out into close range combat for short bursts. I think it's quite plausible given the blood hunter context.
There is certainly a niche for that. In fact, from a RP perspective, it may be a "necessity" for your character to keep a lid on the wolf inside. They may not have as tight a hold on it while in melee combat, so to cope they specifically favor ranged weapons in order to keep enough distance to maintain control. The biggest struggle will be having a feel for when to move forward and rock the transform and go melee -- your timing on getting into and out of close combat will determine whether you are beneficial to your party or not.
My one quirked eyebrow is putting your horri-terri-bad roll of 6 (yikes!) into Strength. Aren't all your attacks in Lycan form going to use Strength, not Dexterity? Last time I read Blood Hunter, I don't recall the Claws (and Bite?) having the Finesse attribute. Which then kind of pulls back to the question of how you are using the Lycan form. Are you intending to tank in melee, or are you going in to murder things while your transform lasts then back out as it ends? Because you're not going to hit many things with only 6 Strength.
Went and re-read it again, your claw attacks are Unarmed Strikes that, effectively, are Finesse. So nevermind that part.
TexasDevin, I disagree with him picking Lycan for purely mechanical. If anything Lycan might be one of the least optimized for ranged combat. The Lycan is like a dex based Barbarian with a preference toward melee combat. The character is spending his feats on ranged combat while the sub-class specializes in melee.
The Mutant subclass can use potions to increase Dexterity beyond the max of 20, Crit twice as often, among other things like eventually healing every turn. The Ghosthunter lets you deal radiant damage, which is far superior to any other elemental and at 11th increases damage on every hit by Wisdom and can be applied to the ranged weapon.
Thanks drag0n_77 for the catch on unarmed strikes being dex weapons (not technically finesse) in the Predatory Strikes feature. I kept looking for anything that made unarmed strikes not suck for someone with Str 6.
If anything Lycan might be one of the least optimized for ranged combat. The Lycan is like a dex based Barbarian with a preference toward melee combat. The character is spending his feats on ranged combat while the sub-class specializes in melee.
The Mutant subclass can use potions to increase Dexterity beyond the max of 20, Crit twice as often, among other things like eventually healing every turn.
The Ghosthunter lets you deal radiant damage, which is far superior to any other elemental and at 11th increases damage on every hit by Wisdom and can be applied to the ranged weapon.
Yes good advice, it is a trade-off. None of the crossbow feats will help the lycan, and the subclass doesn't help the crossbow at all. The one thing the Lycan has going for it in this context is the RP aspect and some close-range fun. I don't particularly enjoy always keeping my distance all the time, but seeing as BH is such a MAD class already, perhaps emphasizing the ranged crossbower via Mutant or Ghosthunter is really the way to go.
My other issues with Lycan is that it's a Action (until 11th lvl when it's Bonus Action) to transform which eats an entire turn and when you do transform Bloodlust makes you a liability. This means if you're using ranged attack while shifted then any ranged attack directed toward you will cause you to attack the closet creature (probably allies) in the back.
That said I worry that having your character have 2 "things" which don't really interact may make you feel like you're never fully utilizing yourself. You're either in melee wolfing it out or your filling people with bolts. Then again, if that's what you're into it's cool.
Mutant gives you a Witcher feel while I think Ghosthunter is the closest to a Hellsing feel. Lycan is cool, but your character is already going to effective in melee (Crossbow Expert allows you ranged attack in melee).
Keep in mind you picked the handcross bow, so you don't have to stay at ranged, you can use it in melee combat.
I actually think a Blood Hunter with a hand crossbow seems pretty epic. The Rite damage is delt *per* attack instead of like Rogue Sneak Attack which is once a turn, so the extra attacks of the hand crossbow are important. A 5th lvl will be doing 1d6+Dex (physical) +1d6 (crimson rite) per attack with 3 attacks.
I think I agree, if you're going to pursue the combined melee/ranged style, drop Sharpshooter. You might not be frontline while in your normal form, but in order to get the most out of your Lycan form you will need to at least be close to it. This would put you in a better position when you do shift, so you can waste as little time as possible. This will also reduce the chance of you accidentally confusing your Wizard or Sorcerer for the enemy if Bloodlust triggers.
This will free up either a different Feat, or a Stat Increase.
My other issues with Lycan is that it's a Action (until 11th lvl when it's Bonus Action) to transform which eats an entire turn and when you do transform Bloodlust makes you a liability. This means if you're using ranged attack while shifted then any ranged attack directed toward you will cause you to attack the closet creature (probably allies) in the back.
That said I worry that having your character have 2 "things" which don't really interact may make you feel like you're never fully utilizing yourself. You're either in melee wolfing it out or your filling people with bolts.
Good call. I think I will feel like I'm "never fully utilizing" the blood hunter. I'm convinced I need to choose mutant or ghost to better mesh with the crossbow. Thanks Bunny
Would I be gimping the party too much to go in this direction?
Would I be better to go tough at level one and use rapier/shield until 4 and switch to crossbow?
That is going to depend on the make-up of your party. If, as a group, you have very high damage per round and at least 1 chunky melee guy with decent HP and AC, then you're set to go with the crossbows right from the get-go. If your group doesn't have that 1 chunky melee guy with decent HP and AC, it's probably going to have to be you.
I am thinking about a crossbow build as well, but I will be going Ghostslayer instead of Lycon. I just like the Van Helsing image.
This is my planned level 1 build
Human variant
Point buy plus race points - 10, 16, 16, 8, 14, 8
Background - Haunted One
Feat - Crossbow Expert
I realize that it will take two bonus to rite each weapon, but I don't intend to worry about the second weapon for most fights.
I would also carry a rapier and shield.
Questions
Would I be gimping the party too much to go in this direction?
Would I be better to go tough at level one and use rapier/shield until 4 and switch to crossbow?
I would generally invest in one or the other: the hand crossbow build, or the sword n board. And if you do, you only need to rite once, not twice.
After a lot of consideration, I'm dumping Lycan in favor of Profane Soul to add some warlock casting to the mix. First post was edited to show the build. Best of luck!
Well, I went with the two crossbow build, but I did not get a chance to use it much. The first session my character got zapped. Level one can be harsh. :)
Well, I went with the two crossbow build, but I did not get a chance to use it much. The first session my character got zapped. Level one can be harsh. :)
Keep in mind, 2 crossbow builds are extremely clunky. From players handbook:
Loading a one-handed weapon requires a free hand
So you'd have to put away a crossbow each time you want to load the other. More info
If I were you I'd bring it up with the DM in favor of making a viable build. Up to you!
If you're going profane soul, why mess with the crossbow at all? You've got eldritch blast for ranged combat.
Purely rp, fun factor with "Mystic Frenzy" & "Diabolic Channel", and variety while keeping a safe distance for my glass cannon. Plus I won't get spells till level 3, and I won't be able to power up eldritch blast with Agonizing Blast.
I like having options. If all I do is "eldritch blast" over and over as my main attack that'll get stale. But mixing in some crossbow, chancing the occasional +10hdmg with -5tohit, combined with rites, buff spells, multi attacks, etc, should prove to offer a tonne more variety, and even more damage at times.
Edit: Originally this post was about a Lycan Blood Hunter Crossbow Build, but after all the help from you guys and the Blood Hunter Handbook I've decided to go with a Blood Hunter Profane Soul Crossbow Build, for a combo of sustainable DPR and casting. Here's the build:
Base stat rolls: 16,15,15,13,12,6
Stat Priorities: Best to Worst
With all bonuses at lvl 1 that looks like:
Variant Human
Urban Bounty Hunter BG (fits the RP - stealth, deception and thieves tools)
Hand-crossbow with
Patron: Archfey
from BH Handbook
Hey guys, I've looked everywhere for an experienced guide on lycan blood hunter crossbow builds.Some Background:I'll be starting a new campaign lvl 1-10 soon (currently the DM has not disclosed which one) but I like the surprise so the focus here will be more general sustainable DPR, as baddies and environments are unknown atm.Having played a lot of moon druid, I can only expect the 2x lycan transformations at 10 mins will be short-lived, and my party tends to face many battles between rests, so I'd like to save those transformations and Rites for boss battles (mostly) and have something sustainable for the rest, hence the hand crossbow build for everything else.It's not my place to tell you what you should play, but I'm having a hard time squaring the image of a transforming were-creature with a standoff ranged attacker for anything other than purely mechanical reasons. If that's your goal, then it's your prerogative certainly.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
You mean in terms of RP? Imagine a fiend/undead slayer type with crossbow, like a van helsing. But when the going gets tough and he's cornered or party members need some extra power, he "becomes what he hunts" and hulks out into close range combat for short bursts. I think it's quite plausible given the blood hunter context.
There is certainly a niche for that. In fact, from a RP perspective, it may be a "necessity" for your character to keep a lid on the wolf inside. They may not have as tight a hold on it while in melee combat, so to cope they specifically favor ranged weapons in order to keep enough distance to maintain control. The biggest struggle will be having a feel for when to move forward and rock the transform and go melee -- your timing on getting into and out of close combat will determine whether you are beneficial to your party or not.
My one quirked eyebrow is putting your horri-terri-bad roll of 6 (yikes!) into Strength. Aren't all your attacks in Lycan form going to use Strength, not Dexterity? Last time I read Blood Hunter, I don't recall the Claws (and Bite?) having the Finesse attribute. Which then kind of pulls back to the question of how you are using the Lycan form. Are you intending to tank in melee, or are you going in to murder things while your transform lasts then back out as it ends? Because you're not going to hit many things with only 6 Strength.Went and re-read it again, your claw attacks are Unarmed Strikes that, effectively, are Finesse. So nevermind that part.
TexasDevin, I disagree with him picking Lycan for purely mechanical.
If anything Lycan might be one of the least optimized for ranged combat. The Lycan is like a dex based Barbarian with a preference toward melee combat. The character is spending his feats on ranged combat while the sub-class specializes in melee.
The Mutant subclass can use potions to increase Dexterity beyond the max of 20, Crit twice as often, among other things like eventually healing every turn.
The Ghosthunter lets you deal radiant damage, which is far superior to any other elemental and at 11th increases damage on every hit by Wisdom and can be applied to the ranged weapon.
Thanks drag0n_77 for the catch on unarmed strikes being dex weapons (not technically finesse) in the Predatory Strikes feature. I kept looking for anything that made unarmed strikes not suck for someone with Str 6.
Yes good advice, it is a trade-off. None of the crossbow feats will help the lycan, and the subclass doesn't help the crossbow at all. The one thing the Lycan has going for it in this context is the RP aspect and some close-range fun. I don't particularly enjoy always keeping my distance all the time, but seeing as BH is such a MAD class already, perhaps emphasizing the ranged crossbower via Mutant or Ghosthunter is really the way to go.
My other issues with Lycan is that it's a Action (until 11th lvl when it's Bonus Action) to transform which eats an entire turn and when you do transform Bloodlust makes you a liability. This means if you're using ranged attack while shifted then any ranged attack directed toward you will cause you to attack the closet creature (probably allies) in the back.
That said I worry that having your character have 2 "things" which don't really interact may make you feel like you're never fully utilizing yourself. You're either in melee wolfing it out or your filling people with bolts. Then again, if that's what you're into it's cool.
Mutant gives you a Witcher feel while I think Ghosthunter is the closest to a Hellsing feel. Lycan is cool, but your character is already going to effective in melee (Crossbow Expert allows you ranged attack in melee).
Keep in mind you picked the handcross bow, so you don't have to stay at ranged, you can use it in melee combat.
I actually think a Blood Hunter with a hand crossbow seems pretty epic. The Rite damage is delt *per* attack instead of like Rogue Sneak Attack which is once a turn, so the extra attacks of the hand crossbow are important.
A 5th lvl will be doing 1d6+Dex (physical) +1d6 (crimson rite) per attack with 3 attacks.
I think I agree, if you're going to pursue the combined melee/ranged style, drop Sharpshooter. You might not be frontline while in your normal form, but in order to get the most out of your Lycan form you will need to at least be close to it. This would put you in a better position when you do shift, so you can waste as little time as possible. This will also reduce the chance of you accidentally confusing your Wizard or Sorcerer for the enemy if Bloodlust triggers.
This will free up either a different Feat, or a Stat Increase.
Good call. I think I will feel like I'm "never fully utilizing" the blood hunter. I'm convinced I need to choose mutant or ghost to better mesh with the crossbow. Thanks Bunny
I am thinking about a crossbow build as well, but I will be going Ghostslayer instead of Lycon. I just like the Van Helsing image.
This is my planned level 1 build
I realize that it will take two bonus to rite each weapon, but I don't intend to worry about the second weapon for most fights.
I would also carry a rapier and shield.
Questions
That is going to depend on the make-up of your party. If, as a group, you have very high damage per round and at least 1 chunky melee guy with decent HP and AC, then you're set to go with the crossbows right from the get-go. If your group doesn't have that 1 chunky melee guy with decent HP and AC, it's probably going to have to be you.
I would generally invest in one or the other: the hand crossbow build, or the sword n board. And if you do, you only need to rite once, not twice.
After a lot of consideration, I'm dumping Lycan in favor of Profane Soul to add some warlock casting to the mix. First post was edited to show the build. Best of luck!
Well, I went with the two crossbow build, but I did not get a chance to use it much. The first session my character got zapped. Level one can be harsh. :)
Keep in mind, 2 crossbow builds are extremely clunky. From players handbook:
So you'd have to put away a crossbow each time you want to load the other. More info
If I were you I'd bring it up with the DM in favor of making a viable build. Up to you!
If you're going profane soul, why mess with the crossbow at all? You've got eldritch blast for ranged combat.
Purely rp, fun factor with "Mystic Frenzy" & "Diabolic Channel", and variety while keeping a safe distance for my glass cannon. Plus I won't get spells till level 3, and I won't be able to power up eldritch blast with Agonizing Blast.
I like having options. If all I do is "eldritch blast" over and over as my main attack that'll get stale. But mixing in some crossbow, chancing the occasional +10hdmg with -5tohit, combined with rites, buff spells, multi attacks, etc, should prove to offer a tonne more variety, and even more damage at times.