What if you were to use the Attack action as your first action of your turn, then use the Light Weapon and Nick properties to attack a second time on your turn, use a bonus action if desired, then use Action Surge to take the Ready action and set the trigger to something like "I'll attack again as soon as our Fighter attacks on his turn?"
When the trigger activates and you make an attack during your colleague's turn, would the Light Property and Nick allow you to make an attack with a second light weapon then as part of that attack? Since it's not actually occurring on your turn, you wouldn't be hampered by once per turn, right?
What if you were to use the Attack action as your first action of your turn, then use the Light Weapon and Nick properties to attack a second time on your turn, use a bonus action if desired, then use Action Surge to take the Ready action and set the trigger to something like "I'll attack again as soon as our Fighter attacks on his turn?"
When the trigger activates and you make an attack during your colleague's turn, would the Light Property and Nick allow you to make an attack with a second light weapon then as part of that attack? Since it's not actually occurring on your turn, you wouldn't be hampered by once per turn, right?
The Light property specifically keys on making the Attack action. Your Readied attack is not from the Attack action.
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn.
The Light property does not say that it can only be used once per turn. With action surge you can activate Light twice.
Nick
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
Herein lies the problem: does "this extra attack" refer to:
(1) the attack granted by this particular activation of the the Light property, or
(2) to all activations of the Light property this turn, or
(3) all uses of the Nick property this turn?
We can argue about this all day, but there is no absolute correct answer because the wording is vague.
(1) If "this extra attack" refers to the particular instance of Light, then a L3 fighter using action surge could attack 4 times (while holding 2 daggers or scimitars, using the Light and Nick properties on each attack action) and still have their bonus action free (but can't attack as a bonus action).
(2) If "this extra attack" refers to all attacks granted by the Light property this turn, then the fighter can attack twice in their first action, once in their second action, and have their bonus action left over (but can't attack with it)
(3) If it refers to the use of Nick, then the fighter could use Nick once (2 attacks in their first action) but still use the Light property on their second attack action, but they would have to use their bonus action to use the extra attack.
There is no RAW, because we can't tell what "this" refers to. My suspicion is that RAI is (2) (max of 3 attacks), but because all the other weapon mastery abilities can be used on every attack, I think (1) actually makes the most sense (4 attacks, w/o using BA). Also, since we're arguing about "action surge" this only applies to a class that could be using much larger weapons.
2x(1d6+Dex) + 2x(1d6) = about 20 damage (4 light/nick attacks with a scimitar and Dex=16, no damage on missed attacks)
2x(2d6+Str) = about 20 damage (2 attacks with a greatsword, Str=16, also gets Graze damage if you miss)
Greatsword would come out on top with Graze, but it probably evens out when including fighting style bufs.
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn.
The Light property does not say that it can only be used once per turn. With action surge you can activate Light twice.
You can't* because you run out of bonus actions.
*Yes, technically it does activate, just uselessly. Technically correct is the best kind of correct.
Nick
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
Herein lies the problem: does "this extra attack" refer to:
(1) the attack granted by this particular activation of the the Light property, or
(2) to all activations of the Light property this turn, or
(3) all uses of the Nick property this turn?
"This extra attack" must refer back to the aforementioned "the extra attack of the light property". It is the only extra attack mentioned in the description of Nick.
And it's all activations. It is referring to the general class, not a specific instance.
If it were #1, the limiting clause is nonsensical. You can only make a specific attack once per turn. (Furthermore, if it were #1, you would get an infinite number of attacks, as each individual attack activates the next.)
If it were #3, they could've just said "you may use this ability once per turn" or "Once per turn, when you make..." They did neither. Also, again, it doesn't make sense -- Nick doesn't give you an extra attack.
The Light property does not say that it can only be used once per turn. With action surge you can activate Light twice.
You can't* because you run out of bonus actions.
*Yes, technically it does activate, just uselessly. Technically correct is the best kind of correct
So you agree that it activates, but if you use Nick, then you don't "run out" of BAs.
"This extra attack" must refer back to the aforementioned "the extra attack of the light property". It is the only extra attack mentioned in the description of Nick.
And it's all activations. It is referring to the general class, not a specific instance.
If it were #1, the limiting clause is nonsensical. You can only make a specific attack once per turn. (Furthermore, if it were #1, you would get an infinite number of attacks, as each individual attack activates the next.)
If it were #3, they could've just said "you may use this ability once per turn" or "Once per turn, when you make..." They did neither. Also, again, it doesn't make sense -- Nick doesn't give you an extra attack.
I'm not sure how you know it's all instances, but yes I think that's most likely.
You Don't get infinite attacks with option (1), you can only get one extra attack for each attack action (as per the description of Light).
I agree that option (3) seems like the least grammatically plausible and (2) seems most likely.
There's a lot of things they "could have" said, but for some reason they didn't.
What if you were to use the Attack action as your first action of your turn, then use the Light Weapon and Nick properties to attack a second time on your turn, use a bonus action if desired, then use Action Surge to take the Ready action and set the trigger to something like "I'll attack again as soon as our Fighter attacks on his turn?"
When the trigger activates and you make an attack during your colleague's turn, would the Light Property and Nick allow you to make an attack with a second light weapon then as part of that attack? Since it's not actually occurring on your turn, you wouldn't be hampered by once per turn, right?
The Light property specifically keys on making the Attack action. Your Readied attack is not from the Attack action.
I see what you're saying. But is that for certain? I ask because in the chart that lists the actions, it defines the Ready action as follows.
What if you were to use the Attack action as your first action of your turn, then use the Light Weapon and Nick properties to attack a second time on your turn, use a bonus action if desired, then use Action Surge to take the Ready action and set the trigger to something like "I'll attack again as soon as our Fighter attacks on his turn?"
When the trigger activates and you make an attack during your colleague's turn, would the Light Property and Nick allow you to make an attack with a second light weapon then as part of that attack? Since it's not actually occurring on your turn, you wouldn't be hampered by once per turn, right?
The Light property specifically keys on making the Attack action. Your Readied attack is not from the Attack action.
I see what you're saying. But is that for certain? I ask because in the chart that lists the actions, it defines the Ready action as follows.
Prepare to take an action in response to a trigger you define.
So if you are preparing to take an action, couldn't the action you later take be the Attack action? And then the Light property could key off that?
That's the quick summary, and not the full rules.
If you look at the entry for the Ready action in the rules glossary, it makes it clear that what you're doing is prepare a reaction, not a normal action.
...however, I can't find anywhere where it describes the mechanics for using the ready action to attack at all.
However, the Light property, and at least the Fighter's Extra attack ability, specify that you have to be taking the Attack action on your turn, so I suspect the question of whether you're making the Attack action or just an attack is relatively unimportant.
Looking at ready again, it looks like you are generally just taking a normal action with your reaction, with the exception of spells. But you still don't get your extra attacks.
Super confussing it seems but I have a 2024 Ranger Beast Master and using Duel weilding and Two weapon fighting. I beleive nick will let me use my Action to attack, my extra attack for myself or my Beast Strike, and BA during my Action for an off hand attack. This frees up the actual BA for Hunters Mark, or if I didn't use a Beast Strike for a standard beast attack, disengage, or any other BA I have that isn't my off hand attack.
Super confussing it seems but I have a 2024 Ranger Beast Master and using Duel weilding and Two weapon fighting. I beleive nick will let me use my Action to attack, my extra attack for myself or my Beast Strike, and BA during my Action for an off hand attack. This frees up the actual BA for Hunters Mark, or if I didn't use a Beast Strike for a standard beast attack, disengage, or any other BA I have that isn't my off hand attack.
Here's how it works:
Your extra attack from being a ranger is irrelevant to this.
When you attack with a light weapon, Light gives you a bonus action attack. Nick lets you do during your regular attack action, instead of using your bonus action.
Dual wielder gives you a separate bonus action attack for attacking with a light weapon. All told, you can get four attacks with your baseline extra attack.
However, if you're using your bonus action for other things, Dual Wielder might not be worth it for you.
(TWF just gives you normal damage on your additional attacks.)
Super confussing it seems but I have a 2024 Ranger Beast Master and using Duel weilding and Two weapon fighting. I beleive nick will let me use my Action to attack, my extra attack for myself or my Beast Strike, and BA during my Action for an off hand attack. This frees up the actual BA for Hunters Mark, or if I didn't use a Beast Strike for a standard beast attack, disengage, or any other BA I have that isn't my off hand attack.
Here's how it works:
Your extra attack from being a ranger is irrelevant to this.
When you attack with a light weapon, Light gives you a bonus action attack. Nick lets you do during your regular attack action, instead of using your bonus action.
Dual wielder gives you a separate bonus action attack for attacking with a light weapon. All told, you can get four attacks with your baseline extra attack.
However, if you're using your bonus action for other things, Dual Wielder might not be worth it for you.
(TWF just gives you normal damage on your additional attacks.)
Thank you. I believe its still worth it for the flexability to attack maximum times, or use the BA for any of a handful of spells and or beast related BA items.
You cant simply because the extra attack you gain from light property triggers once per attack action as long as you use your attack action to attack with a light weapon, and not once per attack.
Light
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative. For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
Having the ability to do multiple attack per turn doent give you multiple attack actions per turn, it gives you multiple attacks as part of the same attack action per turn.
So as a level 5 fighter you can take the attack action on your turn and do 2 attacks.
You have to choose wich attack from those is going to trigger the one extra attack of the light property, inside the same attack action you took on your turn.
Once you trigger the extra attack cant make another one on the same turn as part of the same attack action.
If you apply nick to those then your bonus action is freed to use it for whatever you want.
It is stated in the fighter rule for extra attack that he can do 2 3 or 4 extra attacks whenever you take the attack action on your turn.
If you use action surge and you get the xtra action and use it to attack then because the bonus action is freed you can make the xtra attack of light property but without nick this time.
Again one of these attack will trigger the one extra attack of light property.
In conclusion, the light property limits the xtra attack to one per attack action as logn as you attack. It doen't matter the number of your attacks. One of them will give you an extra attack as bonus action.
The extra attack can also be made once per turn because of the limitation of the number of bonus action you can use.
The nick mastery can also applied once per turn.
The action surge will give you another action and if you use it to take the attack action then light property triggers again as part of the new attack action.
If you have the bonus action free you can make the extra attack after used action surge
Level 5: Extra Attack
You can attack twice instead of once whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
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Your attack with nick replaces the bonus action attack that you'd normally get.
If you want a bonus action attack on top of that you have to take the Duel-Wielder feat.
What if you were to use the Attack action as your first action of your turn, then use the Light Weapon and Nick properties to attack a second time on your turn, use a bonus action if desired, then use Action Surge to take the Ready action and set the trigger to something like "I'll attack again as soon as our Fighter attacks on his turn?"
When the trigger activates and you make an attack during your colleague's turn, would the Light Property and Nick allow you to make an attack with a second light weapon then as part of that attack? Since it's not actually occurring on your turn, you wouldn't be hampered by once per turn, right?
The Light property specifically keys on making the Attack action. Your Readied attack is not from the Attack action.
Light
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn.
The Light property does not say that it can only be used once per turn. With action surge you can activate Light twice.
Nick
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
Herein lies the problem: does "this extra attack" refer to:
(1) the attack granted by this particular activation of the the Light property, or
(2) to all activations of the Light property this turn, or
(3) all uses of the Nick property this turn?
We can argue about this all day, but there is no absolute correct answer because the wording is vague.
(1) If "this extra attack" refers to the particular instance of Light, then a L3 fighter using action surge could attack 4 times (while holding 2 daggers or scimitars, using the Light and Nick properties on each attack action) and still have their bonus action free (but can't attack as a bonus action).
(2) If "this extra attack" refers to all attacks granted by the Light property this turn, then the fighter can attack twice in their first action, once in their second action, and have their bonus action left over (but can't attack with it)
(3) If it refers to the use of Nick, then the fighter could use Nick once (2 attacks in their first action) but still use the Light property on their second attack action, but they would have to use their bonus action to use the extra attack.
There is no RAW, because we can't tell what "this" refers to. My suspicion is that RAI is (2) (max of 3 attacks), but because all the other weapon mastery abilities can be used on every attack, I think (1) actually makes the most sense (4 attacks, w/o using BA). Also, since we're arguing about "action surge" this only applies to a class that could be using much larger weapons.
2x(1d6+Dex) + 2x(1d6) = about 20 damage (4 light/nick attacks with a scimitar and Dex=16, no damage on missed attacks)
2x(2d6+Str) = about 20 damage (2 attacks with a greatsword, Str=16, also gets Graze damage if you miss)
Greatsword would come out on top with Graze, but it probably evens out when including fighting style bufs.
You can't* because you run out of bonus actions.
*Yes, technically it does activate, just uselessly. Technically correct is the best kind of correct.
"This extra attack" must refer back to the aforementioned "the extra attack of the light property". It is the only extra attack mentioned in the description of Nick.
And it's all activations. It is referring to the general class, not a specific instance.
If it were #1, the limiting clause is nonsensical. You can only make a specific attack once per turn. (Furthermore, if it were #1, you would get an infinite number of attacks, as each individual attack activates the next.)
If it were #3, they could've just said "you may use this ability once per turn" or "Once per turn, when you make..." They did neither. Also, again, it doesn't make sense -- Nick doesn't give you an extra attack.
So you agree that it activates, but if you use Nick, then you don't "run out" of BAs.
I'm not sure how you know it's all instances, but yes I think that's most likely.
You Don't get infinite attacks with option (1), you can only get one extra attack for each attack action (as per the description of Light).
I agree that option (3) seems like the least grammatically plausible and (2) seems most likely.
There's a lot of things they "could have" said, but for some reason they didn't.
I see what you're saying. But is that for certain? I ask because in the chart that lists the actions, it defines the Ready action as follows.
So if you are preparing to take an action, couldn't the action you later take be the Attack action? And then the Light property could key off that?
That's the quick summary, and not the full rules.
If you look at the entry for the Ready action in the rules glossary, it makes it clear that what you're doing is prepare a reaction, not a normal action.
...however, I can't find anywhere where it describes the mechanics for using the ready action to attack at all.
However, the Light property, and at least the Fighter's Extra attack ability, specify that you have to be taking the Attack action on your turn, so I suspect the question of whether you're making the Attack action or just an attack is relatively unimportant.
Looking at ready again, it looks like you are generally just taking a normal action with your reaction, with the exception of spells. But you still don't get your extra attacks.
Super confussing it seems but I have a 2024 Ranger Beast Master and using Duel weilding and Two weapon fighting. I beleive nick will let me use my Action to attack, my extra attack for myself or my Beast Strike, and BA during my Action for an off hand attack. This frees up the actual BA for Hunters Mark, or if I didn't use a Beast Strike for a standard beast attack, disengage, or any other BA I have that isn't my off hand attack.
Here's how it works:
Your extra attack from being a ranger is irrelevant to this.
When you attack with a light weapon, Light gives you a bonus action attack. Nick lets you do during your regular attack action, instead of using your bonus action.
Dual wielder gives you a separate bonus action attack for attacking with a light weapon. All told, you can get four attacks with your baseline extra attack.
However, if you're using your bonus action for other things, Dual Wielder might not be worth it for you.
(TWF just gives you normal damage on your additional attacks.)
Thank you. I believe its still worth it for the flexability to attack maximum times, or use the BA for any of a handful of spells and or beast related BA items.
I tried to read all posts here, but still one question bothers me: Nik property activation is per turn, or per turn and weapon?
So let's say I have two attacks and two daggers in my hands:
1. Main hand + Nik on second hand(no bonuses)
2. Second hand(no bonuses) + Nik on main hand(no bonuses)
3. And I have free BA.
OR I can use Nik only ones per turn and it doesn't matter home many weapons or attacks I have?
Per turn. It restricts using the attack of the Light property, not the attack of a light weapon.
Okay. Make sense. Wording is important!
You cant simply because the extra attack you gain from light property triggers once per attack action as long as you use your attack action to attack with a light weapon, and not once per attack.
Light
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative. For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
Having the ability to do multiple attack per turn doent give you multiple attack actions per turn, it gives you multiple attacks as part of the same attack action per turn.
So as a level 5 fighter you can take the attack action on your turn and do 2 attacks.
You have to choose wich attack from those is going to trigger the one extra attack of the light property, inside the same attack action you took on your turn.
Once you trigger the extra attack cant make another one on the same turn as part of the same attack action.
If you apply nick to those then your bonus action is freed to use it for whatever you want.
It is stated in the fighter rule for extra attack that he can do 2 3 or 4 extra attacks whenever you take the attack action on your turn.
If you use action surge and you get the xtra action and use it to attack then because the bonus action is freed you can make the xtra attack of light property but without nick this time.
Again one of these attack will trigger the one extra attack of light property.
In conclusion, the light property limits the xtra attack to one per attack action as logn as you attack. It doen't matter the number of your attacks. One of them will give you an extra attack as bonus action.
The extra attack can also be made once per turn because of the limitation of the number of bonus action you can use.
The nick mastery can also applied once per turn.
The action surge will give you another action and if you use it to take the attack action then light property triggers again as part of the new attack action.
If you have the bonus action free you can make the extra attack after used action surge
Level 5: Extra Attack
You can attack twice instead of once whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.