It specifically says 'Your equipment doesn’t change size or shape to match the new form'. Specific rules overrule general rules. That specific limitation aside, the base rules also say this in regard to magical items 'When a nonhumanoid tries to wear an item, use your discretion as to whether the item functions as intended. A ring placed on a tentacle might work, but a creature with a snakelike tail instead of legs can't wear boots.' so it is always up to the DM to decide if the player's new non humanoid shape can use equipment, magical or not.
Got it - so if I'm wearing something nonmagical that doesn't need to change shape or size, like a silverback gorilla in a breastplate, I should be good then. And of course magical armor can work if the DM wants it to.
Right. I'd rule that the gorilla is basically humanoid myself and allow some good latitude in item use.
Well, I've got a complaint about the current iteration of Monk: no Weapon Masteries.
Kinda wack, but if you aren’t reaching 20, dip fighter. 3 masteries, fighting styles, and second wind. Or take mastery feat. Slightly annoying, but easier to solve than the last ua monk.
Yes! This version of Moon Druid sounds much better.
Moon Druid AC in Wildshape is 13+WIS, so no more worrying about maximizing my caster's AC to maximize WIldshape AC.
Casting in Wildshape form is being expanded with a curated list of spells with sky, moon, and sun themes. This is much better than making all Moon Druids rely on Moonbeam specifically and addresses the issue of Moon Druids not having access to their primary class mechanic when they use wildshape. Druid is even getting two new spells designed with Moon Druid in mind, including a ranged damage cantrip.
Then Moon Druids are getting a damage boost at level 14 so their beast attacks are still doing competitive damage at higher levels.
We'll need to see the specifics but this all sounds like steps in the right direction. It may not be perfect but it doesn't sound like just a pure downgrade from the 2014 Moon Druid either.
Though I am sad to lose Species Traits in Wildshape. RIP my fire-breathing bear tactic.
Moon Druids were seriously broken, and are now even worse. They are even more OP than before.
Well, I've got a complaint about the current iteration of Monk: no Weapon Masteries.
Kinda wack, but if you aren’t reaching 20, dip fighter. 3 masteries, fighting styles, and second wind. Or take mastery feat. Slightly annoying, but easier to solve than the last ua monk.
Or they could do the smart thing and just put the Weapon Mastery feature back on the class. Even easier solution.
Welp... there goes conjuration. Now they are just reskinned versions of Spirit Guardians and Spirit Shroud - PS what's with Conjure Elemental creating a pseudo-gelatinous cube?
Well, I've got a complaint about the current iteration of Monk: no Weapon Masteries.
Kinda wack, but if you aren’t reaching 20, dip fighter. 3 masteries, fighting styles, and second wind. Or take mastery feat. Slightly annoying, but easier to solve than the last ua monk.
Or they could do the smart thing and just put the Weapon Mastery feature back on the class. Even easier solution.
That’s not a player solution, that’s in the hands of the devs.
It specifically says 'Your equipment doesn’t change size or shape to match the new form'. Specific rules overrule general rules. That specific limitation aside, the base rules also say this in regard to magical items 'When a nonhumanoid tries to wear an item, use your discretion as to whether the item functions as intended. A ring placed on a tentacle might work, but a creature with a snakelike tail instead of legs can't wear boots.' so it is always up to the DM to decide if the player's new non humanoid shape can use equipment, magical or not.
Got it - so if I'm wearing something nonmagical that doesn't need to change shape or size, like a silverback gorilla in a breastplate, I should be good then. And of course magical armor can work if the DM wants it to.
Right. I'd rule that the gorilla is basically humanoid myself and allow some good latitude in item use.
Granted, the only simian option I'm seeing currently is the Ape, which while I'd say is reasonable for armor is also only CR 1/2, so not sure if it's particularly viable.
Welp... there goes conjuration. Now they are just reskinned versions of Spirit Guardians and Spirit Shroud - PS what's with Conjure Elemental creating a pseudo-gelatinous cube?
There's a slight chance they'll backtrack if the change gets enough of a negative response; look at Familiars.
Well, I've got a complaint about the current iteration of Monk: no Weapon Masteries.
Kinda wack, but if you aren’t reaching 20, dip fighter. 3 masteries, fighting styles, and second wind. Or take mastery feat. Slightly annoying, but easier to solve than the last ua monk.
Or they could do the smart thing and just put the Weapon Mastery feature back on the class. Even easier solution.
They stealthily tacked them on to the subclass. Makes sense to me.
*Cracks a beer*
Anybody got gripes with the new brutal strikes on the barb?
Welp... there goes conjuration. Now they are just reskinned versions of Spirit Guardians and Spirit Shroud - PS what's with Conjure Elemental creating a pseudo-gelatinous cube?
There's a slight chance they'll backtrack if the change gets enough of a negative response; look at Familiars.
Some how I doubt it, though I'll add my voice to that argument in the survey. Everyone who doesn't play as a druid or play with a druid (with a reasonable DM) hates druid conjuration.
Welp... there goes conjuration. Now they are just reskinned versions of Spirit Guardians and Spirit Shroud - PS what's with Conjure Elemental creating a pseudo-gelatinous cube?
I don't think these are necessarily pushing in the wrong direction. The former "conjure" spells were not great for the game. I think moving towards treated summons like environmental features is a good attempt to speed up the conjurer archetype in combat. I am a little disappointed that they didn't make a new conjuration spell to make an undead swarm, but that wouldn't be really appropriate for a base druid.
Welp... there goes conjuration. Now they are just reskinned versions of Spirit Guardians and Spirit Shroud - PS what's with Conjure Elemental creating a pseudo-gelatinous cube?
There's a slight chance they'll backtrack if the change gets enough of a negative response; look at Familiars.
Some how I doubt it, though I'll add my voice to that argument in the survey. Everyone who doesn't play as a druid or play with a druid (with a reasonable DM) hates druid conjuration.
Which why you just nix the option to summon 8 creatures at a time, not ruin an iconic part of fantasy spellcasting and D&D in general.
Which why you just nix the option to summon 8 creatures at a time, not ruin an iconic part of fantasy spellcasting and D&D in general.
That was only half of the problem. It was deeply un-fun to wait a half hour for the munchkin conjurer to read through all the various 5e monster manuals to pick out the optimal summon for the moment.
Welp... there goes conjuration. Now they are just reskinned versions of Spirit Guardians and Spirit Shroud - PS what's with Conjure Elemental creating a pseudo-gelatinous cube?
There's a slight chance they'll backtrack if the change gets enough of a negative response; look at Familiars.
Some how I doubt it, though I'll add my voice to that argument in the survey. Everyone who doesn't play as a druid or play with a druid (with a reasonable DM) hates druid conjuration.
Which why you just nix the option to summon 8 creatures at a time, not ruin an iconic part of fantasy spellcasting and D&D in general.
I'm assuming that the Tasha's summon spells will be the new de facto "summon a creature into the combat" spell. The side bar mentioned that the Tasha's summon spells will be added to the new Player's Handbook.
Welp... there goes conjuration. Now they are just reskinned versions of Spirit Guardians and Spirit Shroud - PS what's with Conjure Elemental creating a pseudo-gelatinous cube?
I don't think these are necessarily pushing in the wrong direction. The former "conjure" spells were not great for the game. I think moving towards treated summons like environmental features is a good attempt to speed up the conjurer archetype in combat. I am a little disappointed that they didn't make a new conjuration spell to make an undead swarm, but that wouldn't be really appropriate for a base druid.
You're assuming the primary use of conjuration was to deal damage in combat. Having played a druid from level 3-14, that is not the primary way I used conjuration. This is how I used conjuration spells: 1) cause a dragon to fall out of the sky by conjuring a giant constrictor snake on top of it. 2) give my allies an awesome mount in combat by conjuring an allosaurus. 3) move the party across environmental hazards or get the melees into melee range quickly by conjuring giant eagles. 4) digging a tunnel into a fortress by conjuring a horde of giant badgers. 5) summoning giant octopuses to grab enemy brutes and hold them away from my friends.
Sure, in online play I also experienced a toxic player who just summoned hordes to do all the damage and completely too over/dominated encounters. But that's because they were a toxic player not because of conjuration. As became evident when they rage-quit when told no body wanted to play with them b/c they dominated the encounters.
You're assuming the primary use of conjuration was to deal damage in combat. Having played a druid from level 3-14, that is not the primary way I used conjuration. This is how I used conjuration spells: 1) cause a dragon to fall out of the sky by conjuring a giant constrictor snake on top of it. 2) give my allies an awesome mount in combat by conjuring an allosaurus. 3) move the party across environmental hazards or get the melees into melee range quickly by conjuring giant eagles. 4) digging a tunnel into a fortress by conjuring a horde of giant badgers. 5) summoning giant octopuses to grab enemy brutes and hold them away from my friends.
Sure, in online play I also experienced a toxic player who just summoned hordes to do all the damage and completely too over/dominated encounters. But that's because they were a toxic player not because of conjuration. As became evident when they rage-quit when told no body wanted to play with them b/c they dominated the encounters.
Well not exactly, it was just the most pertinent argument. On the counts you've cited I agree with you, we are losing something. But like I said, I can't figure out how to square the circle.
Which why you just nix the option to summon 8 creatures at a time, not ruin an iconic part of fantasy spellcasting and D&D in general.
That was only half of the problem. It was deeply un-fun to wait a half hour for the munchkin conjurer to read through all the various 5e monster manuals to pick out the optimal summon for the moment.
I mean, players don't pick what appears for most of the Conjure spells, the DM does. And, regardless, that's just a matter of the DM getting them to pick a few options ahead of time and keeping a copy of the stats at hand. Which is really the answer to most of the "well, one kind of player will make this a hassle for the whole table" arguments against something; the DM doing their job and putting a foot down to move things along.
And, regardless, that's just a matter of the DM getting them to pick a few options ahead of time and keeping a copy of the stats at hand. Which is really the answer to most of the "well, one kind of player will make this a hassle for the whole table" arguments against something; the DM doing their job and putting a foot down to move things along.
That doesn't solve the issue of the spells' options being an eternally-expanding pool every time new beasts/fey/elementals/etc of those CRs get printed. And even if the good little players pick all their options from a DM-approved curated list before the session, that still doesn't solve the problem of adding anywhere from 4-16 new initiatives, sets of saving throws, damage, and outright bodies to a given battle bogging things down.
And, regardless, that's just a matter of the DM getting them to pick a few options ahead of time and keeping a copy of the stats at hand. Which is really the answer to most of the "well, one kind of player will make this a hassle for the whole table" arguments against something; the DM doing their job and putting a foot down to move things along.
That doesn't solve the issue of the spells' options being an eternally-expanding pool every time new beasts/fey/elementals/etc of those CRs get printed. And even if the good little players pick all their options from a DM-approved curated list before the session, that still doesn't solve the problem of adding anywhere from 4-16 new initiatives, sets of saving throws, damage, and outright bodies to a given battle bogging things down.
The horror of DMs being expected to put in a modicum of legwork to keep a campaign running smoothly! Seriously, if sitting down and having a half hour conversation with a player about being prepared so they don't hold up the whole session is too much work for someone, I'd honestly say that's on them not the system.
Also, regarding the pool sizes, have you actually checked them out? For Conjure Fey, there's less than 20 blocks with a CR between 6 and 9; Elementals are slightly larger, in part because of the quadruplication effect of "earth/water/fire/air X". These are not insurmountable numbers for people to sort through in their personal time between games. I've said that cutting out the multi summons is probably a good idea; if you just stick with Conjure Elemental, Conjure Fey, Conjure Celestial, Summon Greater Demon, and Infernal Calling you are not flooding the board, nor are most players going to be looking at anything but near max CR options, which is at least as easy for them to sort through on their own time as Wildshape options on a Moon Druid.
The horror of DMs being expected to put in a modicum of legwork to keep a campaign running smoothly! Seriously, if sitting down and having a half hour conversation with a player about being prepared so they don't hold up the whole session is too much work for someone, I'd honestly say that's on them not the system.
Also, regarding the pool sizes, have you actually checked them out? For Conjure Fey, there's less than 20 blocks with a CR between 6 and 9; Elementals are slightly larger, in part because of the quadruplication effect of "earth/water/fire/air X". These are not insurmountable numbers for people to sort through in their personal time between games. I've said that cutting out the multi summons is probably a good idea; if you just stick with Conjure Elemental, Conjure Fey, Conjure Celestial, Summon Greater Demon, and Infernal Calling you are not flooding the board, nor are most players going to be looking at anything but near max CR options, which is at least as easy for them to sort through on their own time as Wildshape options on a Moon Druid.
They shouldn't have to "surmount numbers" to be a damn summoner. Nor should players be expected to dive through DM-facing material, however few eligible/non-trap statblocks there are upon doing so. The Tasha design is the right way to go.
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Right. I'd rule that the gorilla is basically humanoid myself and allow some good latitude in item use.
Kinda wack, but if you aren’t reaching 20, dip fighter. 3 masteries, fighting styles, and second wind. Or take mastery feat. Slightly annoying, but easier to solve than the last ua monk.
Moon Druids were seriously broken, and are now even worse. They are even more OP than before.
Or they could do the smart thing and just put the Weapon Mastery feature back on the class. Even easier solution.
Welp... there goes conjuration. Now they are just reskinned versions of Spirit Guardians and Spirit Shroud - PS what's with Conjure Elemental creating a pseudo-gelatinous cube?
That’s not a player solution, that’s in the hands of the devs.
Granted, the only simian option I'm seeing currently is the Ape, which while I'd say is reasonable for armor is also only CR 1/2, so not sure if it's particularly viable.
There's a slight chance they'll backtrack if the change gets enough of a negative response; look at Familiars.
They stealthily tacked them on to the subclass. Makes sense to me.
*Cracks a beer*
Anybody got gripes with the new brutal strikes on the barb?
Some how I doubt it, though I'll add my voice to that argument in the survey. Everyone who doesn't play as a druid or play with a druid (with a reasonable DM) hates druid conjuration.
I don't think these are necessarily pushing in the wrong direction. The former "conjure" spells were not great for the game. I think moving towards treated summons like environmental features is a good attempt to speed up the conjurer archetype in combat. I am a little disappointed that they didn't make a new conjuration spell to make an undead swarm, but that wouldn't be really appropriate for a base druid.
Which why you just nix the option to summon 8 creatures at a time, not ruin an iconic part of fantasy spellcasting and D&D in general.
That was only half of the problem. It was deeply un-fun to wait a half hour for the munchkin conjurer to read through all the various 5e monster manuals to pick out the optimal summon for the moment.
I'm assuming that the Tasha's summon spells will be the new de facto "summon a creature into the combat" spell. The side bar mentioned that the Tasha's summon spells will be added to the new Player's Handbook.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
My Greater Will Google Doc
Proud member of the DragonClub! cult.
You're assuming the primary use of conjuration was to deal damage in combat. Having played a druid from level 3-14, that is not the primary way I used conjuration. This is how I used conjuration spells:
1) cause a dragon to fall out of the sky by conjuring a giant constrictor snake on top of it.
2) give my allies an awesome mount in combat by conjuring an allosaurus.
3) move the party across environmental hazards or get the melees into melee range quickly by conjuring giant eagles.
4) digging a tunnel into a fortress by conjuring a horde of giant badgers.
5) summoning giant octopuses to grab enemy brutes and hold them away from my friends.
Sure, in online play I also experienced a toxic player who just summoned hordes to do all the damage and completely too over/dominated encounters. But that's because they were a toxic player not because of conjuration. As became evident when they rage-quit when told no body wanted to play with them b/c they dominated the encounters.
Well not exactly, it was just the most pertinent argument. On the counts you've cited I agree with you, we are losing something. But like I said, I can't figure out how to square the circle.
I mean, players don't pick what appears for most of the Conjure spells, the DM does. And, regardless, that's just a matter of the DM getting them to pick a few options ahead of time and keeping a copy of the stats at hand. Which is really the answer to most of the "well, one kind of player will make this a hassle for the whole table" arguments against something; the DM doing their job and putting a foot down to move things along.
Yeah, more work put on the DM to ensure balance, that'll really help the shortage
That doesn't solve the issue of the spells' options being an eternally-expanding pool every time new beasts/fey/elementals/etc of those CRs get printed. And even if the good little players pick all their options from a DM-approved curated list before the session, that still doesn't solve the problem of adding anywhere from 4-16 new initiatives, sets of saving throws, damage, and outright bodies to a given battle bogging things down.
The horror of DMs being expected to put in a modicum of legwork to keep a campaign running smoothly! Seriously, if sitting down and having a half hour conversation with a player about being prepared so they don't hold up the whole session is too much work for someone, I'd honestly say that's on them not the system.
Also, regarding the pool sizes, have you actually checked them out? For Conjure Fey, there's less than 20 blocks with a CR between 6 and 9; Elementals are slightly larger, in part because of the quadruplication effect of "earth/water/fire/air X". These are not insurmountable numbers for people to sort through in their personal time between games. I've said that cutting out the multi summons is probably a good idea; if you just stick with Conjure Elemental, Conjure Fey, Conjure Celestial, Summon Greater Demon, and Infernal Calling you are not flooding the board, nor are most players going to be looking at anything but near max CR options, which is at least as easy for them to sort through on their own time as Wildshape options on a Moon Druid.
They shouldn't have to "surmount numbers" to be a damn summoner. Nor should players be expected to dive through DM-facing material, however few eligible/non-trap statblocks there are upon doing so. The Tasha design is the right way to go.