Haven't gotten a chance to play any of the UA material, but has anyone played a rogue thief? like... actually played as a rogue thief?
The new disarm cunning strike, coupled with Fast Hands
Disarm (Cost: 1d6). The target must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw, or it drops one item of your choice that it’s holding
3RD LEVEL: FAST HANDS As a Bonus Action, you can do one of the following: … Use an Object. Take the Use an Object action, or take the Magic action to use a magic item that requires that action.
so you can use your action to disarm an enemy, then use your bonus action to steal their weapon/shield.
Additionally, use an object should technically allow you to "use an object", meaning if there *happens* to be a shortsword lying on the floor (where-ever did that come from?), my bonus action should allow me to pick up that shortsword and stab someone with it.
And before you argue against it... If the setting were in a bar and there happens to be a salt shaker on the table, my rogue thief would be able to bonus action grab that salt shaker and using the use an object action throw salt in someone's eyes. and I could argue that that salt is an improvised weapon/ranged attack, and you'd definitely agree.
I think this makes the rogue waaaay cooler, they're the ultimate martial support character and its so sick.
Throwing a salt shaker or stabbing someone with a shortsword is an attack, not Use an Object so you can definitely pick up the item but attacking with it would be out.
i argue against it. found and improvised weapons still require an attack to attack.
'use an object' seems like it must assume the object is one that a dexterous theif could nimbly manipulate just slightly faster than a normal someone else. you might open the salt shaker in preparation for an attack or you might flourish the short sword. small, quick self-contained motions. not the same as an attack.
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Throwing a salt shaker or stabbing someone with a shortsword is an attack, not Use an Object so you can definitely pick up the item but attacking with it would be out.
ehhh yes kinda, but I don't think its simple as you can't attack,
use an object currently includes a few offensive uses, like throwing alchemical fire, oil, caltrops. Probably also setting a trap etc. So the rules are a bit uncertain here. Salt shaker probably wouldn't normally work, but salt shaker to pour salt on a slug? I think that would apply.
And weirdly I think for some things, it could be either use an object, or make an attack. Like let's say use an object to swing from a chandelier into someone. I might treat it as an unarmed attack of the attack action, or I might allow it as part of use an object.
So sword, no, but maybe some offensive item uses would be fine. I think for most characters it uses an action, so its mutually exclusive to attacking, so it doesnt coke up much, but fast hands makes it viable to do both, and I think its probably OK.
action: the thief makes his primary attack with the disarm included.
free action: he snatches up the short sword, dagger, or other light weapon.
bonus action: could he then make an attack as if he was 2 weapon fighting?
If both weapons being wielded meet the requirements (both light) then I would assume so. As long as it was the Attack action for the main attack. Not sure if disarm is its own action or part of the UA Cunning Strikes, at work so don’t have time to look
in what world is swinging from a chandelier covered by simple use of an object? i think a number of cool tricks rely on assuming that the "Improvising an Action" sidebar is a continuation of "Use an Object" subheading above it. to assume " ...intimidating enemies, sensing weaknesses in magical defenses, or calling for a parley with a foe..." are object use actions is a level of rules lawyering greater than zero. that improvising paragraph only begins after the whole list of given combat actions ends.
5e revised should move Improvising out of a sidebar scroll and into it's own action heading for clarity.
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unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
in what world is swinging from a chandelier covered by simple use of an object? i think a number of cool tricks rely on assuming that the "Improvising an Action" sidebar is a continuation of "Use an Object" subheading above it. to assume " ...intimidating enemies, sensing weaknesses in magical defenses, or calling for a parley with a foe..." are object use actions is a level of rules lawyering greater than zero. that improvising paragraph only begins after the whole list of given combat actions ends.
5e revised should move Improvising out of a sidebar scroll and into it's own action heading for clarity.
the use an object is a general rule for when using an object requires an action. If the GM is telling you you need to use an action to interact with the chandelier, or a rope or a curtain, then that applies. If they aren't saying it requires an action then you can do it with no action use. I think that not allowing a thief to interact with the chandelier, or a rope or whatever is basically going against the point of the ability, and to be 100% honest rogue thief at level 3 has virtually no direct power, you don't need to go out of your way to limit them.
intimidating, sensing weakness, or calling for parley are not things that require the use of an object, so they wouldn't apply.
Its possible the GM decides using an object is free, and the difficulty is using the skill, like say binoculars to perceive, however if the GM says making use of binoculars takes its own action, thieves use object would apply.
"Steal their disarmed weapon off the ground" is even faster than a BA - it's an unattended object at that point, meaning you can snatch it up as an object interaction as written (PHB 190). We'll see if they change the OI rules in 2024 but as of right now, pick up a dropped weapon is on that list.
Swinging from a chandelier would be a free object interaction as written, no different from climbing a ladder or rope or opening / closing a door. If the player wants to swing into another creature and damage that creature then it probably constitutes an attack thus should be an action, though it could also be simply "Falling on another creature" using the rules from Tasha's and thus require no action.
Throwing salt into someone's eyes is the equivalent of throwing oil or Alchemist's Fire onto a target which is a Use Object action that involves an improvised attack. Use Object can mimic other actions - e.g. Use Object : Wand of Fireball - involves a Cast Spell action, Use Object : Alchemist's Fire involves an attack.
They will be making "Use an Object" more clear in the new books (they even underlined it in the playtest indicating that it would appear in the Rules Glossary of the document but it never did) but we do know that they also included use a "Magic action" to activate a magic item, within Fast Hands, separate from the "Use an Object" option. So using a scroll or a wand of magic missile is in but improvised weapons and attack actions are out.
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Haven't gotten a chance to play any of the UA material, but has anyone played a rogue thief? like... actually played as a rogue thief?
The new disarm cunning strike, coupled with Fast Hands
Disarm (Cost: 1d6). The target must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw, or it drops one item of your choice that it’s holding
3RD LEVEL: FAST HANDS As a Bonus Action, you can do one of the following: … Use an Object. Take the Use an Object action, or take the Magic action to use a magic item that requires that action.
so you can use your action to disarm an enemy, then use your bonus action to steal their weapon/shield.
Additionally, use an object should technically allow you to "use an object", meaning if there *happens* to be a shortsword lying on the floor (where-ever did that come from?), my bonus action should allow me to pick up that shortsword and stab someone with it.
And before you argue against it... If the setting were in a bar and there happens to be a salt shaker on the table, my rogue thief would be able to bonus action grab that salt shaker and using the use an object action throw salt in someone's eyes. and I could argue that that salt is an improvised weapon/ranged attack, and you'd definitely agree.
I think this makes the rogue waaaay cooler, they're the ultimate martial support character and its so sick.
Throwing a salt shaker or stabbing someone with a shortsword is an attack, not Use an Object so you can definitely pick up the item but attacking with it would be out.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
i argue against it. found and improvised weapons still require an attack to attack.
'use an object' seems like it must assume the object is one that a dexterous theif could nimbly manipulate just slightly faster than a normal someone else. you might open the salt shaker in preparation for an attack or you might flourish the short sword. small, quick self-contained motions. not the same as an attack.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
ehhh yes kinda, but I don't think its simple as you can't attack,
use an object currently includes a few offensive uses, like throwing alchemical fire, oil, caltrops. Probably also setting a trap etc. So the rules are a bit uncertain here. Salt shaker probably wouldn't normally work, but salt shaker to pour salt on a slug? I think that would apply.
And weirdly I think for some things, it could be either use an object, or make an attack. Like let's say use an object to swing from a chandelier into someone. I might treat it as an unarmed attack of the attack action, or I might allow it as part of use an object.
So sword, no, but maybe some offensive item uses would be fine. I think for most characters it uses an action, so its mutually exclusive to attacking, so it doesnt coke up much, but fast hands makes it viable to do both, and I think its probably OK.
If both weapons being wielded meet the requirements (both light) then I would assume so. As long as it was the Attack action for the main attack. Not sure if disarm is its own action or part of the UA Cunning Strikes, at work so don’t have time to look
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
in what world is swinging from a chandelier covered by simple use of an object? i think a number of cool tricks rely on assuming that the "Improvising an Action" sidebar is a continuation of "Use an Object" subheading above it. to assume " ...intimidating enemies, sensing weaknesses in magical defenses, or calling for a parley with a foe..." are object use actions is a level of rules lawyering greater than zero. that improvising paragraph only begins after the whole list of given combat actions ends.
5e revised should move Improvising out of a sidebar scroll and into it's own action heading for clarity.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
the use an object is a general rule for when using an object requires an action. If the GM is telling you you need to use an action to interact with the chandelier, or a rope or a curtain, then that applies. If they aren't saying it requires an action then you can do it with no action use. I think that not allowing a thief to interact with the chandelier, or a rope or whatever is basically going against the point of the ability, and to be 100% honest rogue thief at level 3 has virtually no direct power, you don't need to go out of your way to limit them.
intimidating, sensing weakness, or calling for parley are not things that require the use of an object, so they wouldn't apply.
Its possible the GM decides using an object is free, and the difficulty is using the skill, like say binoculars to perceive, however if the GM says making use of binoculars takes its own action, thieves use object would apply.
"Steal their disarmed weapon off the ground" is even faster than a BA - it's an unattended object at that point, meaning you can snatch it up as an object interaction as written (PHB 190). We'll see if they change the OI rules in 2024 but as of right now, pick up a dropped weapon is on that list.
Swinging from a chandelier would be a free object interaction as written, no different from climbing a ladder or rope or opening / closing a door. If the player wants to swing into another creature and damage that creature then it probably constitutes an attack thus should be an action, though it could also be simply "Falling on another creature" using the rules from Tasha's and thus require no action.
Throwing salt into someone's eyes is the equivalent of throwing oil or Alchemist's Fire onto a target which is a Use Object action that involves an improvised attack. Use Object can mimic other actions - e.g. Use Object : Wand of Fireball - involves a Cast Spell action, Use Object : Alchemist's Fire involves an attack.
They will be making "Use an Object" more clear in the new books (they even underlined it in the playtest indicating that it would appear in the Rules Glossary of the document but it never did) but we do know that they also included use a "Magic action" to activate a magic item, within Fast Hands, separate from the "Use an Object" option. So using a scroll or a wand of magic missile is in but improvised weapons and attack actions are out.