ARCANE SPELLS An Arcane Spell draws on the ambient magic of the multiverse. Bards, Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards harness this magic, as do Artificers. For a partial list of Arcane Spells, see the “Spell Lists” section later in this document
DIVINE SPELLS A Divine Spell draws on the power of gods and the Outer Planes. Clerics and Paladins harness this magic. For a partial list of Divine Spells, see the “Spell Lists” section later in this document.
PRIMAL SPELLS A Primal Spell draws on the forces of nature and the Inner Planes. Druids and Rangers harness this magic. For a partial list of Primal Spells, see the “Spell Lists” section later in this document.
SPELL LISTS There are now three main Spell lists in the game: Arcane, Divine, and Primal. In future Unearthed Arcana articles, we’ll show how Classes use these lists and how a Class or Subclass might gain Spells from another list.
Seems pretty clear to me, but I could be wrong. We will have to wait and see.
I bolded some stuff, much of it stuff you'd underlined. What I think is key is that, say, Primal Magic says "Druids and Rangers harness this magic," as opposed to "Druids and Rangers both have access to this spell list." Druids and Rangers will both pull from the Primal List, but they will pull different spells from it, rather than the Primal list just being their spell list the way we think of Druid or Ranger spell lists now. I don't think for a second that Rangers will now get Antilife Shell (on the Druid list, not the Ranger one) just because it's on the Primal list.
What I'm expecting is that all base Druid and all base Ranger spells will be on the Primal list, but neither class will have full access to "Primal." Then subclasses will allow them to pull specific things from other lists. I am fully expecting class spell lists to work...almost exactly like they do now. The "Universal" lists are going to primarily be for feats and races to pull from so they don't have to say "Sorcerer, Warlock, or Wizard" lists every time a feat or item or whatever needs that as a prereq, they can just say "Arcane."
But yeah, I don't think "[class] and [class] harness this magic" is anywhere near the same as "[class] and [class] both harness all of this magic." I see a lot of people saying what you are, but I also think that's a huge logical leap that overall kinda damages the game if it's true.
Classes will still have their own lists. They say it in the video about origins. I don't get why people ignore this fact. Their lists may have a lot of stuff in common with these categories but I don't see a sorcerer sharing the same list as a wizard. At higher levels there is a lot of deviation. Also, Hex was strictly Warlock.
The purpose of these lists was to provide a more directed feat aspect rather than feat giving access to a class's spell list, where some can be obviously better than others, these make the feat much more streamlined. That is why it was introduced in this book, since the new feats reference those new lists.
As for "all spells being from the list, but not having access to them all" this is a bit flawed when you look at the Artificer, since they get things like Cure Wounds in addition to being listed in the Arcane block.
Y'all are both inferring a lot that isn't in the document at all. We have zero information on how the classes interact with these lists, except that Crawford said in the video that classes would still have their own, and would each interact with these three "universal" lists in different ways.
We have no reason to think that monsters don't crit other than what Jeremy said in the video, and yet people still take that as the truth. Why should this be any different?
ARCANE SPELLS An Arcane Spell draws on the ambient magic of the multiverse. Bards, Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards harness this magic, as do Artificers. For a partial list of Arcane Spells, see the “Spell Lists” section later in this document
DIVINE SPELLS A Divine Spell draws on the power of gods and the Outer Planes. Clerics and Paladins harness this magic. For a partial list of Divine Spells, see the “Spell Lists” section later in this document.
PRIMAL SPELLS A Primal Spell draws on the forces of nature and the Inner Planes. Druids and Rangers harness this magic. For a partial list of Primal Spells, see the “Spell Lists” section later in this document.
SPELL LISTS There are now three main Spell lists in the game: Arcane, Divine, and Primal. In future Unearthed Arcana articles, we’ll show how Classes use these lists and how a Class or Subclass might gain Spells from another list.
Seems pretty clear to me, but I could be wrong. We will have to wait and see.
I bolded some stuff, much of it stuff you'd underlined. What I think is key is that, say, Primal Magic says "Druids and Rangers harness this magic," as opposed to "Druids and Rangers both have access to this spell list." Druids and Rangers will both pull from the Primal List, but they will pull different spells from it, rather than the Primal list just being their spell list the way we think of Druid or Ranger spell lists now. I don't think for a second that Rangers will now get Antilife Shell (on the Druid list, not the Ranger one) just because it's on the Primal list.
What I'm expecting is that all base Druid and all base Ranger spells will be on the Primal list, but neither class will have full access to "Primal." Then subclasses will allow them to pull specific things from other lists. I am fully expecting class spell lists to work...almost exactly like they do now. The "Universal" lists are going to primarily be for feats and races to pull from so they don't have to say "Sorcerer, Warlock, or Wizard" lists every time a feat or item or whatever needs that as a prereq, they can just say "Arcane."
But yeah, I don't think "[class] and [class] harness this magic" is anywhere near the same as "[class] and [class] both harness all of this magic." I see a lot of people saying what you are, but I also think that's a huge logical leap that overall kinda damages the game if it's true.
Classes will still have their own lists. They say it in the video about origins. I don't get why people ignore this fact. Their lists may have a lot of stuff in common with these categories but I don't see a sorcerer sharing the same list as a wizard. At higher levels there is a lot of deviation. Also, Hex was strictly Warlock.
The purpose of these lists was to provide a more directed feat aspect rather than feat giving access to a class's spell list, where some can be obviously better than others, these make the feat much more streamlined. That is why it was introduced in this book, since the new feats reference those new lists.
As for "all spells being from the list, but not having access to them all" this is a bit flawed when you look at the Artificer, since they get things like Cure Wounds in addition to being listed in the Arcane block.
I watched the video and I don't think it's that clear. Maybe you know something I don't, but the video didn't say that super clearly, so I don't think we know that for sure. But again, maybe I just came away with the wrong impression from the video on this, but either way, I don't think they explain it very well seeing as so many people like me who've watched the video are confused about it.
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I mean, the probable reason we're inferring that individual class spell lists are going away is because of the growing influence of Pathfinder 2e (heresy to speak of, I know!). PF2e does exactly what we are thinking will happen, dividing up spells according to four spell lists: Arcane, Divine, Primal, and an extra one called Occult. Each class no longer has it's own list, and instead draws from one of these four. When the Playtest dropped and said, "Hey, we're classifying spells according the these three traits" without clearly indicating how the classes interact with them, I know my mind immediately drew parallels to PF2e and how it does spell lists. As for me, it just seems weird to me to have both sets of classifications. Like, now spells will have class tags as well as list tags? These things come together to produce the thought "class spell lists are going away."
Y'all are both inferring a lot that isn't in the document at all. We have zero information on how the classes interact with these lists, except that Crawford said in the video that classes would still have their own, and would each interact with these three "universal" lists in different ways.
We have no reason to think that monsters don't crit other than what Jeremy said in the video, and yet people still take that as the truth. Why should this be any different?
Except the fact that the doc clearly says crits (as in "extra damage," not as in "auto-hit," which monsters can still do) is a unique feature "for player characters." No DM-controlled creature, trap, or other mechanism gets to double damage dice or do anything extra on a natural 20 unless something specifically states they do, such as the blade of disaster spell. For that matter, companion creatures like those that Beast Master Ranger or Wildfire Druid wouldn't get the added damage, either.
Also you shouldn't have to watch an hour of video to understand how a spell list works. The UA failed on that count.
You don't. The doc tells you everything you need to know. The three universal (arcane/divine/primal) spell lists exist, and the only playtest features they interact with so far are the Magic Initiate feat and the High Elf cantrip-swapping trait. There are no other proposed changes at this point. The doc also says future articles will talk about how classes interact with these lists. The video is just a little extra telling you that hey, stuff ain't changing that much.
Everyone's so salty about a thing that's just...not a thing. At least not yet. And won't be for two years, and even then only if a majority of survey respondents say they like it. It's amazing how much furor pops up over ideas that are explicitly not set in stone.
Also you shouldn't have to watch an hour of video to understand how a spell list works. The UA failed on that count.
You don't. The doc tells you everything you need to know. The three universal (arcane/divine/primal) spell lists exist, and the only playtest features they interact with so far are the Magic Initiate feat and the High Elf cantrip-swapping trait. There are no other proposed changes at this point. The doc also says future articles will talk about how classes interact with these lists. The video is just a little extra telling you that hey, stuff ain't changing that much.
Everyone's so salty about a thing that's just...not a thing. At least not yet. And won't be for two years, and even then only if a majority of survey respondents say they like it. It's amazing how much furor pops up over ideas that are explicitly not set in stone.
But they don't explain that well in the doc, and watching the video is important for understanding it better. Yes, you don't need to watch the video, but if you really want to understand more about how the UA works, you kinda have to.
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They explain it great in the very first paragraph of the entire document, where they say "The material here uses the rules in the 2014 Player’s Handbook, except where noted."
If something is not noted, it works in the playtest exactly as it did before the playtest.
They explain it great in the very first paragraph of the entire document, where they say "The material here uses the rules in the 2014 Player’s Handbook, except where noted."
If something is not noted, it works in the playtest exactly as it did before the playtest.
Do the new spell lists and the various rules about them that are explained more in the video, but not in the UA, work as they do in 5e? No.
Yeah, it is technically about a change that is noted, but the various intricacies aren't noted, and are explained more in the video then in the UA.
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Because there are, as of yet, no intricacies to be explained. The three universal lists do not replace class lists, at least at this time. So there is nothing to explain. Your class works exactly the same based on current information. There are also no "various rules about them" in the UA. Literally two things in there interact with these lists, and I already brought those up. Nothing else matters. Again, nothing to be explained. There's not even a change to classes and their spell lists in the UA. It is, much like "D20 Tests," primarily just an umbrella function meant to save on word count, so you don't have to say an item requires attunement by a "sorcerer, warlock, or wizard," or an Aberrant Mind sorc can swap its spells from the "sorcerer, warlock, or wizard spell list," they can swap that out for "an arcane spellcaster" or "the arcane spell list." It means nothing more than it says it means. These spell lists exist, and two things we know of, a racial trait and a feat, currently interact with them. For now.
I feel like literally all discussion of the spell lists or anything else "implied" but not actually stated by the UA document is just the community having a prolonged collective panic attack. You don't know what might change, so you assume everything will.
Because there are, as of yet, no intricacies to be explained. The three universal lists do not replace class lists, at least at this time. So there is nothing to explain. Your class works exactly the same based on current information. There are also no "various rules about them" in the UA. Literally two things in there interact with these lists, and I already brought those up. Nothing else matters. Again, nothing to be explained. There's not even a change to classes and their spell lists in the UA. It is, much like "D20 Tests," primarily just an umbrella function meant to save on word count, so you don't have to say an item requires attunement by a "sorcerer, warlock, or wizard," or an Aberrant Mind sorc can swap its spells from the "sorcerer, warlock, or wizard spell list," they can swap that out for "an arcane spellcaster" or "the arcane spell list." It means nothing more than it says it means. These spell lists exist, and two things we know of, a racial trait and a feat, currently interact with them. For now.
I feel like literally all discussion of the spell lists or anything else "implied" but not actually stated by the UA document is just the community having a prolonged collective panic attack. You don't know what might change, so you assume everything will.
Yeah, I get what you mean. The UA (mostly) explains how the new spell system works, they just don't do it well and for most other factors the video isn't necessary to have a good understanding of it. But the new spell-list system does have intricacies, such as how it is used for classes differs from it's use for things like feats. So yes, the video is not necessary to watch to understand how the UA works, but it certainly is important if you want to understand it better and with a few aspects of the UA. I don't think a one-hour long video like this should be that important in understanding the UA, if not necessary, but again, that's just me.
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Classes will still have their own lists. They say it in the video about origins. I don't get why people ignore this fact. Their lists may have a lot of stuff in common with these categories but I don't see a sorcerer sharing the same list as a wizard. At higher levels there is a lot of deviation. Also, Hex was strictly Warlock.
The purpose of these lists was to provide a more directed feat aspect rather than feat giving access to a class's spell list, where some can be obviously better than others, these make the feat much more streamlined. That is why it was introduced in this book, since the new feats reference those new lists.
As for "all spells being from the list, but not having access to them all" this is a bit flawed when you look at the Artificer, since they get things like Cure Wounds in addition to being listed in the Arcane block.
We have no reason to think that monsters don't crit other than what Jeremy said in the video, and yet people still take that as the truth. Why should this be any different?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I watched the video and I don't think it's that clear. Maybe you know something I don't, but the video didn't say that super clearly, so I don't think we know that for sure. But again, maybe I just came away with the wrong impression from the video on this, but either way, I don't think they explain it very well seeing as so many people like me who've watched the video are confused about it.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
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HERE.Also you shouldn't have to watch an hour of video to understand how a spell list works. The UA failed on that count.
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Agreed, and the video is an hour and three minutes,
even more than 30.Edit: Oops, I misread you as having said the video was half an hour, instead of an hour.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.I mean, the probable reason we're inferring that individual class spell lists are going away is because of the growing influence of Pathfinder 2e (heresy to speak of, I know!). PF2e does exactly what we are thinking will happen, dividing up spells according to four spell lists: Arcane, Divine, Primal, and an extra one called Occult. Each class no longer has it's own list, and instead draws from one of these four. When the Playtest dropped and said, "Hey, we're classifying spells according the these three traits" without clearly indicating how the classes interact with them, I know my mind immediately drew parallels to PF2e and how it does spell lists. As for me, it just seems weird to me to have both sets of classifications. Like, now spells will have class tags as well as list tags? These things come together to produce the thought "class spell lists are going away."
Except the fact that the doc clearly says crits (as in "extra damage," not as in "auto-hit," which monsters can still do) is a unique feature "for player characters." No DM-controlled creature, trap, or other mechanism gets to double damage dice or do anything extra on a natural 20 unless something specifically states they do, such as the blade of disaster spell. For that matter, companion creatures like those that Beast Master Ranger or Wildfire Druid wouldn't get the added damage, either.
You don't. The doc tells you everything you need to know. The three universal (arcane/divine/primal) spell lists exist, and the only playtest features they interact with so far are the Magic Initiate feat and the High Elf cantrip-swapping trait. There are no other proposed changes at this point. The doc also says future articles will talk about how classes interact with these lists. The video is just a little extra telling you that hey, stuff ain't changing that much.
Everyone's so salty about a thing that's just...not a thing. At least not yet. And won't be for two years, and even then only if a majority of survey respondents say they like it. It's amazing how much furor pops up over ideas that are explicitly not set in stone.
But they don't explain that well in the doc, and watching the video is important for understanding it better. Yes, you don't need to watch the video, but if you really want to understand more about how the UA works, you kinda have to.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.They explain it great in the very first paragraph of the entire document, where they say "The material here uses the rules in the 2014 Player’s Handbook, except where noted."
If something is not noted, it works in the playtest exactly as it did before the playtest.
Do the new spell lists and the various rules about them that are explained more in the video, but not in the UA, work as they do in 5e? No.
Yeah, it is technically about a change that is noted, but the various intricacies aren't noted, and are explained more in the video then in the UA.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.Because there are, as of yet, no intricacies to be explained. The three universal lists do not replace class lists, at least at this time. So there is nothing to explain. Your class works exactly the same based on current information. There are also no "various rules about them" in the UA. Literally two things in there interact with these lists, and I already brought those up. Nothing else matters. Again, nothing to be explained. There's not even a change to classes and their spell lists in the UA. It is, much like "D20 Tests," primarily just an umbrella function meant to save on word count, so you don't have to say an item requires attunement by a "sorcerer, warlock, or wizard," or an Aberrant Mind sorc can swap its spells from the "sorcerer, warlock, or wizard spell list," they can swap that out for "an arcane spellcaster" or "the arcane spell list." It means nothing more than it says it means. These spell lists exist, and two things we know of, a racial trait and a feat, currently interact with them. For now.
I feel like literally all discussion of the spell lists or anything else "implied" but not actually stated by the UA document is just the community having a prolonged collective panic attack. You don't know what might change, so you assume everything will.
Yeah, I get what you mean. The UA (mostly) explains how the new spell system works, they just don't do it well and for most other factors the video isn't necessary to have a good understanding of it. But the new spell-list system does have intricacies, such as how it is used for classes differs from it's use for things like feats. So yes, the video is not necessary to watch to understand how the UA works, but it certainly is important if you want to understand it better and with a few aspects of the UA. I don't think a one-hour long video like this should be that important in understanding the UA, if not necessary, but again, that's just me.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.