I love that they included the Bladesinger in the new edition. I have fond memories of running a Bladesinger through a second edition game years and years ago. The kit from the The Book of the Elves and the way multi-classing worked in 2e blended together to make a vibrant and deadly elven fighter mage, that relied not only on his magic but his blade.
The Bladesinger from 5e has the emphasis on magic but seems to be lacking in the melee department. I would go as far to say that the eldritch knight captures the spirit of the bladesinger better than the wizard path. As it stands now, why would a bladesinger engage in melee combat? Especially as you increase levels. The sword becomes a decoration and not an extension of the class. I feel they would have been better off to put the Bladesinger in the fighter path, but that starts to step on the toes of the eldritch knight. If your DM allows multi-classing the bladesinger makes a good 2 level dip for aspiring Eldritch knights or vice versa, but on its own it seems lacking.
What are other peoples thoughts and experiences with bladesingers?
I've found the exact opposite to be true for myself. As my AL Bladesigner gains levels he has more to assist in the melee department. We might not hit or do as much damage as other melee focused classes might (Looking at you Rouge and Monk) but as BS can take a lot more hits than they can as well can be harder to hit than a Tankadin. It's hands down my favorite class so far. Kind of wished they would've released them before my main Campaign started and I wouldve went one of them instead of a Sorc.
As for the EK, I just cant get into playing them with the play style that I play my BS at. Tried them a few times but could never just get into enjoying them.
I also strongly disagree with this assessment. My AL Singer just hit level 10 and I mix up magic and swordplay equally, especially when utilizing Greenflame Blade and Booming Blade. Last session we had 2 different encounters that really show how versatile a singer is.
First we fought four Ogres that we got the drop on. I flew above them and dropped a tower on their heads (Daern's Instant Fortress) and then followed up with a fireball before getting into the thick of melee.
Next we fought 4 Zombie Orges alongside a Zombie White Dragon. I spent most of that fight on the back of the dragon using Booming Blade as a soft control to keep him from flying away from the others. Both times I used plenty of traditional wizard spells alongside blade magic (Booming Blade and Greenflame Blade are awesome) and felt like a badass the entire time.
Plus once a Singer hits level 14 and can add Song of Victory they really shine in Melee.
I love playing my BS. I prefer it over playing a EK any day, just my personal opinion. I find the magic side of play more as my fail safe plan, and the melee of the BS as my starter. I like the versatile style of melee and magic casting with a BS. I do note, however, I am partial to this class, and every happy that it was once again added as a playable class and not just our home brew equivalent.
I just feel that they should have received War Magic at some point. It would have meshed well with the class and move it more toward a blend of melee and magic. Since it is an Elven trait, perhaps allow them to use the Long Sword as a finesse Weapon considering they cannot use bladesong and use a two-handed weapon you don't have to worry about Great Weapon Mastery coming into play.
I suppose most of my issues can be house ruled. As both a DM and a player I wouldn't have an issue. The original post was to get other peoples reactions to the Bladesinger and I thank you for your responses.
Running a Rapier and calling it an Elven Longsword is a good way of getting around that without house ruling anything. That way you can take it to Adventure League should you do choose.
And yes, War Magic would have been a better level 6 feature than Extra Attack, but I think they were afraid of Singers outshining other melee combatants with 2 sword attacks (with +10 or so damage each) and one of them being magical that does another 3-4d8 per hit. Either way the class is very fun to play as is.
My blade singer has a dip in war cleric. So with high elf int and dex at 16 at lv 3 I got 19 armor with mage armor and with blade song add 2 for sheild of faith plus sheild spell if needed for 26 ac. Add war prest if a attack hits can get a second attack so many times. And a ton of cantrips and Utility spells go to the cleric lower spell ability.
My blade singer has a dip in war cleric. So with high elf int and dex at 16 at lv 3 I got 19 armor with mage armor and with blade song add 2 for sheild of faith plus sheild spell if needed for 26 ac. Add war prest if a attack hits can get a second attack so many times. And a ton of cantrips and Utility spells go to the cleric lower spell ability.
What are your stats? Have to have a Wis of 13 for that dip so you're Con most be fairly low. I'd rather have extra HP and better Con saves than the Cleric stuff personally.
Int 16 (15+1) dex16(14+2) wis 13con12 cha 10 hate all the -1 in stats strength is 8
So int+3 dex+3 wis+1 con+1 cha 0 str-1
But wizard so stick with dex weapon not bad
With blade song and mage armor 19 ac big fight add sheild of faith +2 for 21 and shield if needed for 26 ac and the AL games I play it is hit or miss on healers in the group so I pick up cure wounds and healing word
What you're sort of picking up on here isn't that the bladesinger is bad at melee, it's that it's a wizard subclass- the majority of a bladesinging character's power lies in the base wizard chassis and full caster progression, foregoing your wizardry for melee strikes in combat is a little lack luster as a result (since it doesn't have as much of your power budget devoted to it), and a combination of fewer buff spells and concentration prevent you from synergizing those resources as you might have been able to in earlier editions of the game- in my opinion Wizards should, in the future, aspire to create more spells that are useful to a melee caster, or simulate a blend of magic and weaponry ala the 4e swordmage, we need a method of converting the spell slots we have into melee competency and i think that on a basic level spells like the druidic flame blade but with a wider plethora of effects are the way to go to make them distinct from normal melee, rather than directly competitive.
Aside from that, the current dynamic is that the Eldritch Knight is a fighter with a little bit of wizard, while the Bladesinger is the wizard with a little bit of fighter- so multiclassing them together should yield a character that wants to melee more than the bladesinger and cast more than the eldritch knight. They'll also have access to bladesong, which should make them an acceptable "bladesinger" in terms of flavor.
It's also good if it is a long drawn out battle can use the sword cantrips like boom blade and green flameblade and save first level spells for sheild.
Int 16 (15+1) dex16(14+2) wis 13con12 cha 10 hate all the -1 in stats strength is 8
So int+3 dex+3 wis+1 con+1 cha 0 str-1
But wizard so stick with dex weapon not bad
With blade song and mage armor 19 ac big fight add sheild of faith +2 for 21 and shield if needed for 26 ac and the AL games I play it is hit or miss on healers in the group so I pick up cure wounds and healing word
Int 16 (15+1) dex16(14+2) wis 13con12 cha 10 hate all the -1 in stats strength is 8
So int+3 dex+3 wis+1 con+1 cha 0 str-1
But wizard so stick with dex weapon not bad
With blade song and mage armor 19 ac big fight add sheild of faith +2 for 21 and shield if needed for 26 ac and the AL games I play it is hit or miss on healers in the group so I pick up cure wounds and healing word
blade song and mage armor don't stack to determine the AC.
This is incorrect. AC calculations don't stack. But Bladesong isn't an AC calculation. It's a bonus like Shield (the spell and the item). So yes Mage Armor and Bladesong do stack.
Int 16 (15+1) dex16(14+2) wis 13con12 cha 10 hate all the -1 in stats strength is 8
So int+3 dex+3 wis+1 con+1 cha 0 str-1
But wizard so stick with dex weapon not bad
With blade song and mage armor 19 ac big fight add sheild of faith +2 for 21 and shield if needed for 26 ac and the AL games I play it is hit or miss on healers in the group so I pick up cure wounds and healing word
blade song and mage armor don't stack to determine the AC.
This is incorrect. AC calculations don't stack. But Bladesong isn't an AC calculation. It's a bonus like Shield (the spell and the item). So yes Mage Armor and Bladesong do stack.
If you are reducing the difference just at the mechanics:
1) Bladesinger is an archtype of wizards. So mainly bladesinger are wizards (based on INT and not CHA). Does not always hit with a sword. The spellcasting works very differently.
2) Bard ia class focused on party support (bardic music, countercharm, a lot of skills proficiency). A bladesinger is a more versatile combat-oriented wizard.
3) Bard sings every time. It is part of his job. A bladesinger sings only for bladesong.
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I love that they included the Bladesinger in the new edition. I have fond memories of running a Bladesinger through a second edition game years and years ago. The kit from the The Book of the Elves and the way multi-classing worked in 2e blended together to make a vibrant and deadly elven fighter mage, that relied not only on his magic but his blade.
The Bladesinger from 5e has the emphasis on magic but seems to be lacking in the melee department. I would go as far to say that the eldritch knight captures the spirit of the bladesinger better than the wizard path. As it stands now, why would a bladesinger engage in melee combat? Especially as you increase levels. The sword becomes a decoration and not an extension of the class. I feel they would have been better off to put the Bladesinger in the fighter path, but that starts to step on the toes of the eldritch knight. If your DM allows multi-classing the bladesinger makes a good 2 level dip for aspiring Eldritch knights or vice versa, but on its own it seems lacking.
What are other peoples thoughts and experiences with bladesingers?
I've found the exact opposite to be true for myself. As my AL Bladesigner gains levels he has more to assist in the melee department. We might not hit or do as much damage as other melee focused classes might (Looking at you Rouge and Monk) but as BS can take a lot more hits than they can as well can be harder to hit than a Tankadin. It's hands down my favorite class so far. Kind of wished they would've released them before my main Campaign started and I wouldve went one of them instead of a Sorc.
As for the EK, I just cant get into playing them with the play style that I play my BS at. Tried them a few times but could never just get into enjoying them.
I also strongly disagree with this assessment. My AL Singer just hit level 10 and I mix up magic and swordplay equally, especially when utilizing Greenflame Blade and Booming Blade. Last session we had 2 different encounters that really show how versatile a singer is.
First we fought four Ogres that we got the drop on. I flew above them and dropped a tower on their heads (Daern's Instant Fortress) and then followed up with a fireball before getting into the thick of melee.
Next we fought 4 Zombie Orges alongside a Zombie White Dragon. I spent most of that fight on the back of the dragon using Booming Blade as a soft control to keep him from flying away from the others. Both times I used plenty of traditional wizard spells alongside blade magic (Booming Blade and Greenflame Blade are awesome) and felt like a badass the entire time.
Plus once a Singer hits level 14 and can add Song of Victory they really shine in Melee.
I love playing my BS. I prefer it over playing a EK any day, just my personal opinion. I find the magic side of play more as my fail safe plan, and the melee of the BS as my starter. I like the versatile style of melee and magic casting with a BS. I do note, however, I am partial to this class, and every happy that it was once again added as a playable class and not just our home brew equivalent.
I have my Star Elf Bladesinger, who's still waiting to be put into action.
Any dos and don'ts?
Bladesingers can be awesome in combat, you just have to build it with that intention. My blades inherent is constantly running around the battlefield.
Favorite memory is acrobaticaly timming a lightning lure to rip an enemy from scaffolding to their death.
They add a flare to combat that pure melee characters can never get, they just have to use their magic to their advantage.
I just feel that they should have received War Magic at some point. It would have meshed well with the class and move it more toward a blend of melee and magic. Since it is an Elven trait, perhaps allow them to use the Long Sword as a finesse Weapon considering they cannot use bladesong and use a two-handed weapon you don't have to worry about Great Weapon Mastery coming into play.
I suppose most of my issues can be house ruled. As both a DM and a player I wouldn't have an issue. The original post was to get other peoples reactions to the Bladesinger and I thank you for your responses.
Running a Rapier and calling it an Elven Longsword is a good way of getting around that without house ruling anything. That way you can take it to Adventure League should you do choose.
And yes, War Magic would have been a better level 6 feature than Extra Attack, but I think they were afraid of Singers outshining other melee combatants with 2 sword attacks (with +10 or so damage each) and one of them being magical that does another 3-4d8 per hit. Either way the class is very fun to play as is.
My blade singer has a dip in war cleric. So with high elf int and dex at 16 at lv 3 I got 19 armor with mage armor and with blade song add 2 for sheild of faith plus sheild spell if needed for 26 ac. Add war prest if a attack hits can get a second attack so many times. And a ton of cantrips and Utility spells go to the cleric lower spell ability.
Int 16 (15+1) dex16(14+2) wis 13con12 cha 10 hate all the -1 in stats strength is 8
So int+3 dex+3 wis+1 con+1 cha 0 str-1
But wizard so stick with dex weapon not bad
With blade song and mage armor 19 ac big fight add sheild of faith +2 for 21 and shield if needed for 26 ac and the AL games I play it is hit or miss on healers in the group so I pick up cure wounds and healing word
What you're sort of picking up on here isn't that the bladesinger is bad at melee, it's that it's a wizard subclass- the majority of a bladesinging character's power lies in the base wizard chassis and full caster progression, foregoing your wizardry for melee strikes in combat is a little lack luster as a result (since it doesn't have as much of your power budget devoted to it), and a combination of fewer buff spells and concentration prevent you from synergizing those resources as you might have been able to in earlier editions of the game- in my opinion Wizards should, in the future, aspire to create more spells that are useful to a melee caster, or simulate a blend of magic and weaponry ala the 4e swordmage, we need a method of converting the spell slots we have into melee competency and i think that on a basic level spells like the druidic flame blade but with a wider plethora of effects are the way to go to make them distinct from normal melee, rather than directly competitive.
Aside from that, the current dynamic is that the Eldritch Knight is a fighter with a little bit of wizard, while the Bladesinger is the wizard with a little bit of fighter- so multiclassing them together should yield a character that wants to melee more than the bladesinger and cast more than the eldritch knight. They'll also have access to bladesong, which should make them an acceptable "bladesinger" in terms of flavor.
It's also good if it is a long drawn out battle can use the sword cantrips like boom blade and green flameblade and save first level spells for sheild.
why does it exist? its basicly a bard
it hits people with a sword and it sings.. its a bard... change the bardic music to blade song and its the same thing
If you are reducing the difference just at the mechanics:
1) Bladesinger is an archtype of wizards. So mainly bladesinger are wizards (based on INT and not CHA). Does not always hit with a sword. The spellcasting works very differently.
2) Bard ia class focused on party support (bardic music, countercharm, a lot of skills proficiency). A bladesinger is a more versatile combat-oriented wizard.
3) Bard sings every time. It is part of his job. A bladesinger sings only for bladesong.