Can we find equally interesting ways to exploi.. erm, creatively use in the spirit of RAW, Tinker's Magic?
As a Magic action while holding Tinker’s Tools, you can create one item in an unoccupied space within 5 feet of yourself, choosing the item from the following list:
Sounds like a way to frustrate the bard's overtures at the formal.
Though if the changes in UA take, you'll see Tinker's Magic ruin perfectly good formal party shenanigans, and have to rely on Druidcraft, Minor Illusion, or Prestidigitation instead.
This topic brings to mind a recurring thought I've been having for treating capstones better.
When you reach level 20 in a class, in addition to the usual benefits of gaining that level, instead of the standard capstone gain four levels in any one other class, without the need to meet the usual multiclass qualifications. You do not gain the saves of your secondary class. Your main class primary characteristics become the primary characteristics of the second class. If your base class is not a spellcasting class -- for example Barbarian or Monk -- your spellcasting characteristic is the most appropriate of any mental characteristic, or Dex or Con. You must select a subclass in the second class. You gain a new feat for having reached fourth level in the second class. You gain the hit dice associated with four levels in the new class. Your characteristic maximum is now 24 instead of 20 in your primary characteristics.
I know it doesn't address the question asked, but I think it would reach a similar outcome without the issues. Except, of course, it's a reward for sticking to one class all the way through 20 levels, not a way to get the abilities of both throughout your career.
It's far better as a theme, flavor, or background for an Artificer or Barbarian than an actual multiclass, IMO.
Artificer from a barbarian tribe whose creations are made from stone, bone, fur, hair, hide, ivory, wood, and sinew? Brilliant. Really could work well for an Alchemist, making shamanic potions and body paints.
Barbarian who takes the Crafter origin feat? Also brilliant.
Either works better than the multiclassing of the character, mechanically.
Should a Ranger be able to support their party with Pass Without Trace, while still being capable of silencing enemy scouts with a well-placed bowshot and HM?
Sure, there are superficial similarities between HM and Hex. But then, the entire Warlock progression has nothing that depends on Hex being active on a target, as the 2024 Ranger does for HM.
I'm perfectly okay playing 2024 Ranger RAW. Through Tier 1, it's a superior combat class. But then, I'm happy playing with the toys the toymakers created, by the rules they set.
Mostly I just wish I didn't feel like sometimes those rules were there to appease envious spoilsports.
Please explain how HM concentration meaningfully differs from if Mage Armor were a Concentration spell.. and you couldn't cast Shield without Mage Armor active?
If Weapon Mastery for Versatile or One-Handed weapons required two hands, and took a Bonus Action for Two-handed weapons?
If spells that restore HP required the caster to concentrate until the end of the target's next turn?
While it's possible to construct some sort of line of reasoning that justifies these absurdities, they're all essentially envy-based nerfs built on someone's arbitrary perception that without such needless complications the class is "overpowered".
Rangers are not overpowered if they can cast HM without concentration. Wizards aren't overpowered if they can cast Shield without concentration-based Mage Armor. Fighters aren't overpowered because of weapon masteries. Healers aren't overpowered when they heal. These are core class features. Why make a class that's frustrating to play, just because someone playing a different class is envious?
HM could just as easily have a restriction on it like "Distraction"; you don't have to maintain Concentration, but if you fail a Concentration check when the DM calls for one (because you took damage, etc), you lose HM until you cast it again.
For the solo test, I took the controversial path to use ScholarGTP to generate and DM a custom adventure in a custom Forgotten Realms setting based in Calimport. Taking the time to set the parameters for the AI to work with paid off, in a suitable game experience. A patient DM who contrived a passable simulation of tabletop action, with fewer hiccups than previous AI attempts, mostly around the AI escalating violence and then worrying that it was violating its own community conduct guidelines. It created ambience well, moderated combats in a balanced way, ran NPCs smoothly, and handled unconventional player tactics without panic. In particular, the method of working out the DC of challenges with the DM before rolling to determine whether or not the character succeeded seemed more RPG-like than letting the AI just decide on success of attempts itself (I suspect it doesn't know how to do this without manual intervention yet).
I can tell you, it let my plan to heal the eyes of the famous Blind Apothecary of Calimport as a diversionary tactic work to delay the Shadow Hand, so maybe AI does have a sense of humour.
Right. I completed the survey, gave UA my views, and now await the machineries of joy to churn out game content.
I have to tell you, forcing myself through a five level solo test of the Noble Genie Paladin subclass was way more fun than I expected. Charlatan Dexadin has never been so exciting. James Bond meets Walter Mitty meets Legolas. I have never seen Command have such pivotal effect in roleplay, in 44 years of gaming. And using Lay on Hands as a diversionary tactic? And Detect Poison and Disease to locate an apothecary's sick courier being chased through the lower districts of Calimport by the Shadow Hand before they caught him? What thrilling tales the Elements weave.
I don't care that it's mechanically S-tier. I like the story the subclass enables.
It also feeds into the old archetype of the Bladesinger fighting with a long sword from 2nd Edition. To make it work in 5th you needed to go with a Rapier, Short Sword, or Scimitar, which while the Rapier worked almost as well it just "feels" more right with a long sword.
Would you promote restricting Bladesinger to the old "Elf weapons" of 2nd Ed.? (Longsword, short sword, Longbow, short bow; for wood 'wild' elves Scimitar in place of Longsword), and no other for Bladesinger? Or add in Rapiers, as they're useful?
If utility is your watchword for class design, might one suggest adding to Bladesinger Second Wind, Action Surge, another ASI at 6th and 13th level, and more Extra Attacks at 11th, 16th and 20th level?
See? Simple. What's really changed about Purple Dragon Knights -- arguably the weakest Fighter subclass mechanically -- with the new UA rules, if you don't have the dragon pet?
But what an enrichment of the stories if, for whatever reason, amethyst dragons realize that these Fighters are uniquely useful adornments, like hats or jewelry?
I mean, to an amethyst dragon, a Purple Dragon Knight is like a hat of healing that can make its own independent attacks. And bonus, if you're hungry, you can snack on a leg.
An arcane focus can be a crystal, orb, staff, wand..
Not just any crystal you pick up at random by the side of the road is an arcane focus. That's part of why they have different cost.
Not just any old orb is an arcane focus. Some are just marbles or balls.
Staves and wands? Not just any switch or stick qualifies as an arcane focus, just as not just any quarterstaff is a longbow, and not all wands are woven to form wattle for walls.
So we see a thing can belong to the categories that come under the arcane focus umbrella, but hardly any of them belong to the arcane focus set.
Can we stop beating this dead horse with quarterstaves?
Is it just me, or do most of these subclasses seem really odd thematically/flavor-wise?
A Bard subclass that sounds a lot like a Lore Bard but with a nature theme instead of an art-theme.
A Fighter subclass that sounds so confused between upholding Paladin-esque ideals like it's Good aligned while having a Ranger-esque companionship with an Amethyst Dragon that's known to be Neutral aligned.
The Paladin is pretending to be a Genie Warlock when the flavoring could be on the actual elements itself instead of the type of creature with no issue.
The Rogue seems to be an Assassin with a heavier enthesis on wanton murder with a semi-deity focus while using Intelligence instead of Wisdom.
The Sorcerer is tied to the Weave like literally all Arcane Casters are while somehow having a Spell List that practically the Celestial Warlock, I:E Divine magic turned Arcane.
Seriously, what is this? I could barely look into the actual mechanics of these in the document because the theme and flavoring was so odd.
They've gone back to the original sources.
Historically, there were three 'Fae' orders: Druids, Vates, and Bards, in old Celtic religions. Sorta. Kinda. So they're bringing back Bards as bards, not what they evolved through various iterations of the game.
The Purple Dragon Knight is a dragon-mounted Cavalier.
The original paladins were out of the Charlemagne mythos (NSFW, btw), and they had counterparts from the 'Holy Land' of genies and such. So a balancing lightly-armored counterpart of the heavy armored version, with the ability to go toe-to-toe (and then some! Chromatic Orb + CME?! Awesome!)
Rangers look like a tribute to GOT's Night's Watch, in particular Benjin Stark.
Original first edition Rogues were all about the assassin action, and this return to rogues being Evil isn't a surprise, though it's a surprise.
And the Sorcerer is more reminiscent of Mystra's theme, also I can't fault them for going back to the sources there.
0
Shoelaces are string. Shoelaces tied together under a table could impede a standing up, say.
A 10' pole inserted between branches at a rider's height could foil pursuit on horseback.
Who needs Snare, when you can manifest a rope, a block and tackle, and ball bearings in 3 turns?
0
Can we find equally interesting ways to exploi.. erm, creatively use in the spirit of RAW, Tinker's Magic?
0
Sounds like a way to frustrate the bard's overtures at the formal.
Though if the changes in UA take, you'll see Tinker's Magic ruin perfectly good formal party shenanigans, and have to rely on Druidcraft, Minor Illusion, or Prestidigitation instead.
0
This topic brings to mind a recurring thought I've been having for treating capstones better.
When you reach level 20 in a class, in addition to the usual benefits of gaining that level, instead of the standard capstone gain four levels in any one other class, without the need to meet the usual multiclass qualifications. You do not gain the saves of your secondary class. Your main class primary characteristics become the primary characteristics of the second class. If your base class is not a spellcasting class -- for example Barbarian or Monk -- your spellcasting characteristic is the most appropriate of any mental characteristic, or Dex or Con. You must select a subclass in the second class. You gain a new feat for having reached fourth level in the second class. You gain the hit dice associated with four levels in the new class. Your characteristic maximum is now 24 instead of 20 in your primary characteristics.
I know it doesn't address the question asked, but I think it would reach a similar outcome without the issues. Except, of course, it's a reward for sticking to one class all the way through 20 levels, not a way to get the abilities of both throughout your career.
0
It's far better as a theme, flavor, or background for an Artificer or Barbarian than an actual multiclass, IMO.
Artificer from a barbarian tribe whose creations are made from stone, bone, fur, hair, hide, ivory, wood, and sinew? Brilliant. Really could work well for an Alchemist, making shamanic potions and body paints.
Barbarian who takes the Crafter origin feat? Also brilliant.
Either works better than the multiclassing of the character, mechanically.
0
So, fresh question on topic: Do the UA playtests change the way you play? Do they change the classes or backgrounds or species you want to choose?
Speaking of, what do you feel are the most reasonable BGs for the playtest subclasses?
Obviously, Noble Genie Paladin is Charlatan though it appears it's meant to be Noble..
0
Should a Ranger be able to support their party with Pass Without Trace, while still being capable of silencing enemy scouts with a well-placed bowshot and HM?
Sure, there are superficial similarities between HM and Hex. But then, the entire Warlock progression has nothing that depends on Hex being active on a target, as the 2024 Ranger does for HM.
I'm perfectly okay playing 2024 Ranger RAW. Through Tier 1, it's a superior combat class. But then, I'm happy playing with the toys the toymakers created, by the rules they set.
Mostly I just wish I didn't feel like sometimes those rules were there to appease envious spoilsports.
0
re: HM Concentration
Please explain how HM concentration meaningfully differs from if Mage Armor were a Concentration spell.. and you couldn't cast Shield without Mage Armor active?
If Weapon Mastery for Versatile or One-Handed weapons required two hands, and took a Bonus Action for Two-handed weapons?
If spells that restore HP required the caster to concentrate until the end of the target's next turn?
While it's possible to construct some sort of line of reasoning that justifies these absurdities, they're all essentially envy-based nerfs built on someone's arbitrary perception that without such needless complications the class is "overpowered".
Rangers are not overpowered if they can cast HM without concentration. Wizards aren't overpowered if they can cast Shield without concentration-based Mage Armor. Fighters aren't overpowered because of weapon masteries. Healers aren't overpowered when they heal. These are core class features. Why make a class that's frustrating to play, just because someone playing a different class is envious?
HM could just as easily have a restriction on it like "Distraction"; you don't have to maintain Concentration, but if you fail a Concentration check when the DM calls for one (because you took damage, etc), you lose HM until you cast it again.
0
For the solo test, I took the controversial path to use ScholarGTP to generate and DM a custom adventure in a custom Forgotten Realms setting based in Calimport. Taking the time to set the parameters for the AI to work with paid off, in a suitable game experience. A patient DM who contrived a passable simulation of tabletop action, with fewer hiccups than previous AI attempts, mostly around the AI escalating violence and then worrying that it was violating its own community conduct guidelines. It created ambience well, moderated combats in a balanced way, ran NPCs smoothly, and handled unconventional player tactics without panic. In particular, the method of working out the DC of challenges with the DM before rolling to determine whether or not the character succeeded seemed more RPG-like than letting the AI just decide on success of attempts itself (I suspect it doesn't know how to do this without manual intervention yet).
I can tell you, it let my plan to heal the eyes of the famous Blind Apothecary of Calimport as a diversionary tactic work to delay the Shadow Hand, so maybe AI does have a sense of humour.
1
Right. I completed the survey, gave UA my views, and now await the machineries of joy to churn out game content.
I have to tell you, forcing myself through a five level solo test of the Noble Genie Paladin subclass was way more fun than I expected. Charlatan Dexadin has never been so exciting. James Bond meets Walter Mitty meets Legolas. I have never seen Command have such pivotal effect in roleplay, in 44 years of gaming. And using Lay on Hands as a diversionary tactic? And Detect Poison and Disease to locate an apothecary's sick courier being chased through the lower districts of Calimport by the Shadow Hand before they caught him? What thrilling tales the Elements weave.
I don't care that it's mechanically S-tier. I like the story the subclass enables.
0
Would you promote restricting Bladesinger to the old "Elf weapons" of 2nd Ed.? (Longsword, short sword, Longbow, short bow; for wood 'wild' elves Scimitar in place of Longsword), and no other for Bladesinger? Or add in Rapiers, as they're useful?
If utility is your watchword for class design, might one suggest adding to Bladesinger Second Wind, Action Surge, another ASI at 6th and 13th level, and more Extra Attacks at 11th, 16th and 20th level?
0
So.. don't play with pet dragons.
See? Simple. What's really changed about Purple Dragon Knights -- arguably the weakest Fighter subclass mechanically -- with the new UA rules, if you don't have the dragon pet?
But what an enrichment of the stories if, for whatever reason, amethyst dragons realize that these Fighters are uniquely useful adornments, like hats or jewelry?
I mean, to an amethyst dragon, a Purple Dragon Knight is like a hat of healing that can make its own independent attacks. And bonus, if you're hungry, you can snack on a leg.
0
An arcane focus can be a crystal, orb, staff, wand..
Not just any crystal you pick up at random by the side of the road is an arcane focus. That's part of why they have different cost.
Not just any old orb is an arcane focus. Some are just marbles or balls.
Staves and wands? Not just any switch or stick qualifies as an arcane focus, just as not just any quarterstaff is a longbow, and not all wands are woven to form wattle for walls.
So we see a thing can belong to the categories that come under the arcane focus umbrella, but hardly any of them belong to the arcane focus set.
Can we stop beating this dead horse with quarterstaves?
1
I do not disagree on any point.
You have mapped out the situation clearly and well.
0
They've gone back to the original sources.
Historically, there were three 'Fae' orders: Druids, Vates, and Bards, in old Celtic religions. Sorta. Kinda. So they're bringing back Bards as bards, not what they evolved through various iterations of the game.
The Purple Dragon Knight is a dragon-mounted Cavalier.
The original paladins were out of the Charlemagne mythos (NSFW, btw), and they had counterparts from the 'Holy Land' of genies and such. So a balancing lightly-armored counterpart of the heavy armored version, with the ability to go toe-to-toe (and then some! Chromatic Orb + CME?! Awesome!)
Rangers look like a tribute to GOT's Night's Watch, in particular Benjin Stark.
Original first edition Rogues were all about the assassin action, and this return to rogues being Evil isn't a surprise, though it's a surprise.
And the Sorcerer is more reminiscent of Mystra's theme, also I can't fault them for going back to the sources there.