The reason 99% of the people do not use reincarnate is because it literally change ones character. 2 of my players literally stopped coming to the sessions after their transformations. While it was a cool story point they didnt like the idea of playing a race they hadnt chosen for their character. They simply felt like we had given them a random npc and told them here your new character. Fundamentally... Thats exactly what happened though...

Thats why the spell is never used... Also why keyleth... Marisha never used it. She felt the change was too drastic !

Its important to note though, why the spell is like that. It creates a new body. Something only true ressurection, a spell of 9th level, is capable of. So its still a very powerful spell for a 5th level. But the cost is steep.... Your character will fundamentally change and it will not be your character that you chose.

Exemples... Charms have the same effect and modify memory can destroy a character. As seen by liam in this very campaign.

Remember people... Its not because you think its cool to toy with characters, that your friend will love it too. After all its their character and mind they put in, not yours !

Great article but Reincarnate is supposed to be random, isn't it? The intent of those who transformed Nott seems to have been to turn her into a goblin rather than some random race. Isn't True Polymorph or Wish more likely?

Well, the way Veth/Nott described it, she was drowned before her transformation, so she died and then she was resurrected. It implies that Reincarnate is much more probable than True Polymorph. Wish is always an option, of course, it only seems less likely, though it is possible that an archmage is hiding due to some reason or another and has agreed to do what the goblins required. Yet, Reincarnate is only a 5th-level spell, so any 9th-level druid would be able to do it, and it feels to me that a druid is much more in line with the more primal nature of goblin tribes, as described in this campaign, than a wizard (or a sorcerer).

As far as the randomness of the spell is concerned, the outcome is up to the DM anyway, as it is they who roll for the outcome, not the player. Thus, tweaking the rules a little so that the reincarnation is not random will be entirely within the spirit of the game. Furthermore, it was already mentioned in this thread that there is a Forced Reincarnation spell in Pathfinder, a system Matthew Mercer is fond of, so it is most likely the inspiration for this story.

By the way, this obviously screams of an interpretation of classic tales like Beauty and the Beast or The Ugly Duckling. Yet, it will be really interesting if in the end Veth/Nott doesn't revert to its previous image or changes into something new. I'd really like to see if she decides that how she looks is not what really matters - but I guess we'll see.

Quote from DnDPaladin >>

The reason 99% of the people do not use reincarnate is because it literally change ones character. 2 of my players literally stopped coming to the sessions after their transformations. While it was a cool story point they didnt like the idea of playing a race they hadnt chosen for their character. They simply felt like we had given them a random npc and told them here your new character. Fundamentally... Thats exactly what happened though...

Thats why the spell is never used... Also why keyleth... Marisha never used it. She felt the change was too drastic !

 

Its important to note though, why the spell is like that. It creates a new body. Something only true ressurection, a spell of 9th level, is capable of. So its still a very powerful spell for a 5th level. But the cost is steep.... Your character will fundamentally change and it will not be your character that you chose.

Exemples... Charms have the same effect and modify memory can destroy a character. As seen by liam in this very campaign.

Remember people... Its not because you think its cool to toy with characters, that your friend will love it too. After all its their character and mind they put in, not yours !

This.

Once I had my Drow Monk die, and the DM just did a reincarnate (without telling me what it was), asked me to roll a d100 (again, without telling me what was happening), and then just told me "Hey, you're reborn as a Mountain Dwarf".

I told him "No, this is my character, my choice, and I choose to die and reroll a new character instead."

I was angry. First, he should have told me what he was doing. I would have said no, and that I would have rather reroll a new character, because 1) I am not fond of dwarves and playing a dwarf would have been horrible for me; 2) my character would NEVER have wanted to be anything else but a drow and would not have agreed to the return.

So yeah, DMs should always ask when reincarnation is a thing. Some players and characters won't mind it. Most of the time, though, it's not fun and it takes away from player enjoyment. I do like how it was used on Nott's case, though, and I thought it was a brilliant thing that Sam did, but I would never wanna have it used on myself. The race I choose is half of why I like the character.

I think that the one being reincarnated should get a saving throw or random roll to see if they keep their original race or get to choose the new race which would make it less annoying for people. Of course I think the purpose of Reincarnation is more story and roleplay focused, meant to ask the players how their characters deal with this turn of events. Also maybe allow subsequent raise deads or other spells of that nature to restore the original race.

All true, which is why making Reincarnate part of Nott's backstory (and Modify Memory being part of Caleb's) was clearly a decision made by the player(s) at character creation, not something forced on anyone by dice rolls during play.  Sam embraced the idea of playing a goblin rogue first, then thought to himself, "What if she wasn't always this way?"

I suppose it could just have been a case of Divine Intervention as well. I really liked the idea that not all Goblins are evil and was hoping they'd come across a tribe of them like Nott someday. It just seems more interesting to me if members of every race can choose their own alignments. So I'm still not sure how I feel about this plot twist. 

@ gxr777 they are crownsguard

Nice. Good table. If you allow Drama Points or Campaign Points (awards to give players for something especially noteworthy) a reroll on this might be worth such an expenditure. (Such as someone rolling something like kenku that they are really opposed to playing.)

oh, and maybe it was The Traveler who reincarnated her as a goblin. Trickster god is not always a nice god.

Died and got Reincarnated last night after a Beholder fight. Using this table, I went from being a Halfling to a Drow.

I often wonder whether my groups are special, or that the other groups are just more visible. I rarely ever had problems with spells like Reincarnation or other things that took away player agency for a while. I do think this is part of the agreement that Players and DMs have to find before playing. I never had players stop showing up after a reincarnation, just as I didn't have any players doing suicidal stupid things in order to not get arrested or the likes, in fact my players over the last 20 years always tended to lean into things. We had several times where the players opted for reincarnation over the safer raise dead, just to get a new story angle. 

This might come from the fact though, that I often play with other DMs as players (In fact more players in my groups DM/GM than not) and therefore we have a different approach to our characters. We tend to always prefer  the more interesting story option, even if that means our character is off worse.

I do get though that a player gets angry when the DM just informs him "Your proud Drow Warrior is a Dwarf now haha". A reincarnation (just as any resurection) is an opportunity for great storytelling on behalf of both the DM and the player. I firmly believe that most cases where a player doesn't want to deal with the effects of reincarnation happen because of it feeling cheap. Reincarnation is a second chance at live, but at a steep price, and this should be worth more than a simple roll on a table and a sidenote, it should be a ongoing story point. Than it won't feel like being handed a random NPC either. 

Quote from Sam_Axe >>

I often wonder whether my groups are special, or that the other groups are just more visible. I rarely ever had problems with spells like Reincarnation or other things that took away player agency for a while. I do think this is part of the agreement that Players and DMs have to find before playing. I never had players stop showing up after a reincarnation, just as I didn't have any players doing suicidal stupid things in order to not get arrested or the likes, in fact my players over the last 20 years always tended to lean into things. We had several times where the players opted for reincarnation over the safer raise dead, just to get a new story angle. 

This might come from the fact though, that I often play with other DMs as players (In fact more players in my groups DM/GM than not) and therefore we have a different approach to our characters. We tend to always prefer  the more interesting story option, even if that means our character is off worse.

I do get though that a player gets angry when the DM just informs him "Your proud Drow Warrior is a Dwarf now haha". A reincarnation (just as any resurection) is an opportunity for great storytelling on behalf of both the DM and the player. I firmly believe that most cases where a player doesn't want to deal with the effects of reincarnation happen because of it feeling cheap. Reincarnation is a second chance at live, but at a steep price, and this should be worth more than a simple roll on a table and a sidenote, it should be a ongoing story point. Than it won't feel like being handed a random NPC either. 

  I just feel that this isn’t the sort of thing that should be done without consulting the player about it. It definitely should not be done without the player fully knowing what it entails and the consequences of it.

In my case, my dm never told me he was trying reincarnate. I was not aware of how the spell worked either. He just said “roll me a d100”. Then “you’re reborn as a mountain dwarf.” That wasn’t ok for me cause first, I never agreed to it. My character would not have willingly come back to life with reincarnation (and isn’t there something that says that any kind of resurrection, the soul must be willing?). And second because I, as a player, was not ok with it and I could not play a dwarf as it’s one of my least favorite races.

This isn’t taking player agency “temporarily”. This is literally imposing on a player something that they might not be in agreement to and that at turn could ruin the enjoyment of the game. Definitely something that must be agreed upon, and not imposed upon. 

You could always go on a quest to get a high level wizard to undo it with a wish spell or something. Temporarily having to play as another race for a while isn't that terrible even if you don't like that race. 

Quote from Aldero >>

While I agree that the reincarnate spell seems like the most logical explanation for Veth's transformation, there is a small problem with it. " If the target's soul isn't free or willing to do so, the spell fails." It seems likely that Veth wouldn't willingly return to life as a goblin.

 

 Don't be so sure. The alternative would be to never see her family again.

Quote from zhivik >>

Well, the way Veth/Nott described it, she was drowned before her transformation, so she died and then she was resurrected. It implies that Reincarnate is much more probable than True Polymorph. Wish is always an option, of course, it only seems less likely, though it is possible that an archmage is hiding due to some reason or another and has agreed to do what the goblins required. Yet, Reincarnate is only a 5th-level spell, so any 9th-level druid would be able to do it, and it feels to me that a druid is much more in line with the more primal nature of goblin tribes, as described in this campaign, than a wizard (or a sorcerer).

 

 Actually, the 5e lore on goblins seems to suggest that the Booyahgs (goblins spellcasters) are more often Wild Magic Sorcerers than anything else.

Quote from KaleoLeah >>

Quote from Sam_Axe >>

I often wonder whether my groups are special, or that the other groups are just more visible. I rarely ever had problems with spells like Reincarnation or other things that took away player agency for a while. I do think this is part of the agreement that Players and DMs have to find before playing. I never had players stop showing up after a reincarnation, just as I didn't have any players doing suicidal stupid things in order to not get arrested or the likes, in fact my players over the last 20 years always tended to lean into things. We had several times where the players opted for reincarnation over the safer raise dead, just to get a new story angle. 

This might come from the fact though, that I often play with other DMs as players (In fact more players in my groups DM/GM than not) and therefore we have a different approach to our characters. We tend to always prefer  the more interesting story option, even if that means our character is off worse.

I do get though that a player gets angry when the DM just informs him "Your proud Drow Warrior is a Dwarf now haha". A reincarnation (just as any resurection) is an opportunity for great storytelling on behalf of both the DM and the player. I firmly believe that most cases where a player doesn't want to deal with the effects of reincarnation happen because of it feeling cheap. Reincarnation is a second chance at live, but at a steep price, and this should be worth more than a simple roll on a table and a sidenote, it should be a ongoing story point. Than it won't feel like being handed a random NPC either. 

  I just feel that this isn’t the sort of thing that should be done without consulting the player about it. It definitely should not be done without the player fully knowing what it entails and the consequences of it.

In my case, my dm never told me he was trying reincarnate. I was not aware of how the spell worked either. He just said “roll me a d100”. Then “you’re reborn as a mountain dwarf.” That wasn’t ok for me cause first, I never agreed to it. My character would not have willingly come back to life with reincarnation (and isn’t there something that says that any kind of resurrection, the soul must be willing?). And second because I, as a player, was not ok with it and I could not play a dwarf as it’s one of my least favorite races.

This isn’t taking player agency “temporarily”. This is literally imposing on a player something that they might not be in agreement to and that at turn could ruin the enjoyment of the game. Definitely something that must be agreed upon, and not imposed upon. 

 That is exactly what i meant with the DM just turning you into a Dwarf. It was bad communication, I believe, that if you know what was happening to you and what the impications were, you and your DM could have had a great storyline. Your character hating your new form, feeling the changes that your new race inflicted on you, and either finding ways to get your true form back or over time learning to deal with it (altough a dwarf is a tough one if you don't like them :))

Quote from Sam_Axe >>

 That is exactly what i meant with the DM just turning you into a Dwarf. It was bad communication, I believe, that if you know what was happening to you and what the impications were, you and your DM could have had a great storyline. Your character hating your new form, feeling the changes that your new race inflicted on you, and either finding ways to get your true form back or over time learning to deal with it (altough a dwarf is a tough one if you don't like them :))

Couldn't happen, not with this character. He would have flat-out refused to return. So even then, it wouldn't be a great storyline, because since he had a chance to not be willing, that's what  he would be doing. He would prefer to remain dead than to return something other than himself. So if the DM had told me, I would have explained that to him. But he didn't and I just had to say "Sorry but my character would not have accepted to return as anything but himself." He retconned it and apologized, but I still felt upset he didn't communicate.

Even then, I can see with another character that it would work.  Not as a dwarf. I hate dwarves so out of character, that would have been VERY hard for me to roleplay (sorry DORFS). But with another character,  and another race, I could see how what you're saying would be interesting and I would have been ok with it. Not with this one. So it was all wrong from the beginning, and I was very upset.

I think the ratios should be different. No way shifters should be higher probability than humans.

Quote from SabreRunner >>

I think the ratios should be different. No way shifters should be higher probability than humans.

Why? Does reincarnation adhere to the racial distribution of the real world? 

This isn't a sly jab, this is a legit worldbuilding question. How does this kind of magic work?

I would think that it doesn't really matter, after all most parties seem to have a huge abundance of non human PCs while most worlds have humans as the most dominant race there is :D