I am going to propose a starting stat set to the group I play with. We have some issues with questions about validity of stats rolled and a massive amount of disparity in stats rolled. So here is what I am going to propose as they have complained that the standard array and the stat buy are to low of stats.
Do you want characters starting with a 20 and 16 in their main stats? This is BEYOND broken. Rolled stats are barely better than standard array. You could have everyone roll a set, and then vote on which one EVERYONE uses, or something similar to maintain balance.
Low stats are an important part of D&D design - they allow players to shine when their stat is relevant, and step back and let someone else shine when it is a mediocre stat. Whether that is accomplished through luck (rolled stats), point buy, or standard array, it is a good thing for the party dynamic and the game as a whole.
Your high overall stat spread - which would require extremely good rolls - fails to deliver on that component of game balance, and thus really should not be used. If you have concern about cheating, make everyone roll stats with the DM as a witness, others wise, sounds like your group might want to use point buy so they can maximize multiple stats and focus on character power in a way standard array does not allow.
A few of my groups use what has been called an Extended Array, which has been propose by some content creators as well. This is 17, 15, 13, 12, 10, 8. You get the initial boost in your main couple of stats, but you're still not amazing at everything. This alone provides some powerful characters, and I wouldn't want to go any higher than that.
I will echo the others. If you want everyone to be powerful with no real weaknesses, then I guess you can do this, but having a couple "low stats" is part of the game.
I proposed the standard array and people damn near ripped my head off saying they should start with an 18 because “they always roll at least one” and in thus lies the problem. We have some issues with people “rolling” insane stats and a couple of us rolling nearly comically bad. I agree role playing a low stat or two is fun but maybe I am in the wrong group. I am not the DM, he is at his end too so he asked me what I thought, this was just a first idea. I think he had lower numbers in mind too. I guess I am looking more for ideas not why this is a bad idea.
If that's their excuse, then you can do what was suggested above: have them all roll stats (4d6k3) and then they pick which one they will all use. I imagine their memory of rolls is a little skewed (especially if they were allowed to roll multiple lines) and they may decide that point-buy or standard array are actually preferred...
It should be assumed that all rolls are where everyone can see. If this is online, you can use one of the dice rollers that is built into many platforms that everyone can see.
I think someone else already proposed, but everyone rolls one stat line. Then you all vote on which one to use and everyone uses the same one. You get the rolls with less variation from character to character.
I’ve also heard of, but never tried rolling 2d6+6. It raises the average a bit, but not to crazy levels.
Otherwise, it’s a group conversation about how (as others said) stats like the the standard array are where they are for a lot of reasons, and the game math is balanced around those numbers. I get that some people really like the power fantasy and want bigger numbers. And they’re not wrong to like what they like. So you may also be right about finding a different group.
I proposed the standard array and people damn near ripped my head off saying they should start with an 18 because “they always roll at least one” and in thus lies the problem. We have some issues with people “rolling” insane stats and a couple of us rolling nearly comically bad. I agree role playing a low stat or two is fun but maybe I am in the wrong group. I am not the DM, he is at his end too so he asked me what I thought, this was just a first idea. I think he had lower numbers in mind too. I guess I am looking more for ideas not why this is a bad idea.
Here's the non-"head ripping off" version:
An 18 with a standard +2 or +1 becomes a 20 or 19 with the relevant traits.
That leads to DMs having to do more work to adjust for strnger players at lower tiers of play.
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DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
I like seeing my character grow stronger over the course of a game. If you start with your primary ability score already maxed out, then you're taking away some of that.
I like seeing my character grow stronger over the course of a game. If you start with your primary ability score already maxed out, then you're taking away some of that.
Agreed: and starting with a 20, then you lose the benefit of the stat boosts gained when you take feats.
One potential benefit of starting with a 17 or 18, though. is that, if your table doesn’t allow custom backgrounds, you’re free to choose backgrounds that suit the character but don’t give you an ASI for your primary stat. For example, I’ve recently built an Eberron Artificer Alchemist with the House Jorasco background. That suited the character well but doesn’t provide an Intelligence ASI. Having rolled a natural 17, the lack of an ASI didn’t matter.
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I am going to propose a starting stat set to the group I play with. We have some issues with questions about validity of stats rolled and a massive amount of disparity in stats rolled. So here is what I am going to propose as they have complained that the standard array and the stat buy are to low of stats.
18
15
15
14
14
12
Do you want characters starting with a 20 and 16 in their main stats? This is BEYOND broken. Rolled stats are barely better than standard array. You could have everyone roll a set, and then vote on which one EVERYONE uses, or something similar to maintain balance.
Low stats are an important part of D&D design - they allow players to shine when their stat is relevant, and step back and let someone else shine when it is a mediocre stat. Whether that is accomplished through luck (rolled stats), point buy, or standard array, it is a good thing for the party dynamic and the game as a whole.
Your high overall stat spread - which would require extremely good rolls - fails to deliver on that component of game balance, and thus really should not be used. If you have concern about cheating, make everyone roll stats with the DM as a witness, others wise, sounds like your group might want to use point buy so they can maximize multiple stats and focus on character power in a way standard array does not allow.
A few of my groups use what has been called an Extended Array, which has been propose by some content creators as well. This is 17, 15, 13, 12, 10, 8. You get the initial boost in your main couple of stats, but you're still not amazing at everything. This alone provides some powerful characters, and I wouldn't want to go any higher than that.
I will echo the others. If you want everyone to be powerful with no real weaknesses, then I guess you can do this, but having a couple "low stats" is part of the game.
I proposed the standard array and people damn near ripped my head off saying they should start with an 18 because “they always roll at least one” and in thus lies the problem. We have some issues with people “rolling” insane stats and a couple of us rolling nearly comically bad. I agree role playing a low stat or two is fun but maybe I am in the wrong group. I am not the DM, he is at his end too so he asked me what I thought, this was just a first idea. I think he had lower numbers in mind too. I guess I am looking more for ideas not why this is a bad idea.
If that's their excuse, then you can do what was suggested above: have them all roll stats (4d6k3) and then they pick which one they will all use. I imagine their memory of rolls is a little skewed (especially if they were allowed to roll multiple lines) and they may decide that point-buy or standard array are actually preferred...
It should be assumed that all rolls are where everyone can see. If this is online, you can use one of the dice rollers that is built into many platforms that everyone can see.
I think someone else already proposed, but everyone rolls one stat line. Then you all vote on which one to use and everyone uses the same one. You get the rolls with less variation from character to character.
I’ve also heard of, but never tried rolling 2d6+6. It raises the average a bit, but not to crazy levels.
Otherwise, it’s a group conversation about how (as others said) stats like the the standard array are where they are for a lot of reasons, and the game math is balanced around those numbers. I get that some people really like the power fantasy and want bigger numbers. And they’re not wrong to like what they like. So you may also be right about finding a different group.
Here's the non-"head ripping off" version:
An 18 with a standard +2 or +1 becomes a 20 or 19 with the relevant traits.
That leads to DMs having to do more work to adjust for strnger players at lower tiers of play.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
I like seeing my character grow stronger over the course of a game. If you start with your primary ability score already maxed out, then you're taking away some of that.
Agreed: and starting with a 20, then you lose the benefit of the stat boosts gained when you take feats.
One potential benefit of starting with a 17 or 18, though. is that, if your table doesn’t allow custom backgrounds, you’re free to choose backgrounds that suit the character but don’t give you an ASI for your primary stat. For example, I’ve recently built an Eberron Artificer Alchemist with the House Jorasco background. That suited the character well but doesn’t provide an Intelligence ASI. Having rolled a natural 17, the lack of an ASI didn’t matter.