Is passive perception always on?

I mean, my solution to 5.5e stealth is to use 5e rules -- yes, they're far more dependent on the DM's rulings about when circumstances are appropriate for stealth, but I'd rather have an explicit DM's call than incomprehensible rules.

While taking the Search action let you make a Wisdom (Perception) check, it's not a neccessity. You can make one without taking the Search action.

How often DM ask player characters for a Wisdom (Perception) check to notice something?

Sometimes, asking players to make Wisdom (Perception) checks for their characters tips them off that there's something they should be searching for, giving them a clue you'd rather they didn't have. In those circumstances, use characters' Passive Perception scores instead.

I've been mulling this over for a bit now, and the passage "Sometimes..." is just not sitting well with me. Let's start with the primary assumption of how the game is meant to be played: Players describe their character's actions (lower case, general, descriptive actions), and the DM narrates the outcomes, sometimes calling for checks.

If this assumption is incorrect, then you can tell me why and ignore the rest of this post.

However, if that's true, then I don't really understand how that "Sometimes..." passage ever comes into play. If they players are not describing that they are searching for something, then why would you, as a DM, call for an active check? If you don't, then you are already not tipping off your players that "there's something they should be searching for". However, if the players are already saying they are performing actions that would reasonably cause a DM to call for a Perception Roll, then you are already past the point where tipping them off would change their actions.

It seems that the passage assumes that the game is actually played differently to how they meant it to be played. That, without a players actually describing their character as searching for anything, a DM might call for a Perception Roll, and if they don't want to tip their hand, they can fall back on Passive Perception. But that puts Passive Perception not in a position of stopping information for being given to players, but of actually doing so—when PP is high enough to actually notice something. The way the "Sometimes..." passage is written is counter to itself. You use PP to give the players information without them rolling, not to deny them information by calling for a check the players never described actions requiring.

Quote from sabin76 >>

However, if that's true, then I don't really understand how that "Sometimes..." passage ever comes into play. If they players are not describing that they are searching for something, then why would you, as a DM, call for an active check?

Because it's a way to smooth out gameplay. If you're exploring a dungeon, having the players call out "I listen at the door" at every door, and "I search the room" every time they find a new room (or worse, search for traps every 10' in a corridor), rapidly gets tedious and annoying, so you assume they're taking an average level of caution all the time.

Quote from sabin76 >>

I've been mulling this over for a bit now, and the passage "Sometimes..." is just not sitting well with me. Let's start with the primary assumption of how the game is meant to be played: Players describe their character's actions (lower case, general, descriptive actions), and the DM narrates the outcomes, sometimes calling for checks.

If this assumption is incorrect, then you can tell me why and ignore the rest of this post.

However, if that's true, then I don't really understand how that "Sometimes..." passage ever comes into play. If they players are not describing that they are searching for something, then why would you, as a DM, call for an active check? If you don't, then you are already not tipping off your players that "there's something they should be searching for". However, if the players are already saying they are performing actions that would reasonably cause a DM to call for a Perception Roll, then you are already past the point where tipping them off would change their actions.

It seems that the passage assumes that the game is actually played differently to how they meant it to be played. That, without a players actually describing their character as searching for anything, a DM might call for a Perception Roll, and if they don't want to tip their hand, they can fall back on Passive Perception. But that puts Passive Perception not in a position of stopping information for being given to players, but of actually doing so—when PP is high enough to actually notice something. The way the "Sometimes..." passage is written is counter to itself. You use PP to give the players information without them rolling, not to deny them information by calling for a check the players never described actions requiring.

DUUUUDE! Thats what ive been saying!

If theyre searching, have them roll and use that.

If theyre not searching then their powers of observation should NOT be the average score they would get if theyre searching and ROLLED.

so passive should be lower.