so, the thorn whip cantrip is an melee attack with an 30 ft range, and it pulls an target 10 ft closer. Like yes it makes sense that its an melee spell attack, the thing you create to attack things with is itself making an melee attack, but this has the interesting situation where unlike many other ranged attack rolls, this one does not give you disadvantage on your attacks becuase it is not an ranged attack.
now, i am desperately trying to think of an feature that improves melee attacks or melee spell attacks that might have good synnergies with this particular cantrip becuase that would be rad, but the only thing i can think of is the death domain clerics channel divinity option and the hand of vecna, both of whom are stupid ideas
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I think the best synergies for this spell are to do with the pull as a battlefield control effect, not the fact that it is a melee spell attack.
Or if you are an artificer with it. And you have a Druid who also has it. And the two of you “tug’o’war” an enemy back and forth while your melee guy carved them up
so, the thorn whip cantrip is an melee attack with an 30 ft range, and it pulls an target 10 ft closer. Like yes it makes sense that its an melee spell attack, the thing you create to attack things with is itself making an melee attack, but this has the interesting situation where unlike many other ranged attack rolls, this one does not give you disadvantage on your attacks becuase it is not an ranged attack.
now, i am desperately trying to think of an feature that improves melee attacks or melee spell attacks that might have good synnergies with this particular cantrip becuase that would be rad, but the only thing i can think of is the death domain clerics channel divinity option and the hand of vecna, both of whom are stupid ideas
Any option that wants a creature in a certain place will love attacks/spells like this. Create Bonfire? Check. Spirit Guardians? Check. Certain Paladin auras? Check. Any character that wants creatures closer to them than farther away? Check. This would include characters with sentinel, a level 17 Cavalier, a barbearian with Armor of Agathys active, or similar options. Have a nasty AoE spell that wants a creature to be moving through difficult terrain? Push/pull options like this can get the creature in to it and help keep them there.
And the all time favorite: creature pulled over the edge of a chasm. Doesn't even need to be high enough for fatal damage if all that you need is that creature out of the way for a turn or two (that it needs to spend climbing out of the chasm now).
yes, i get that using the spell to move people arround is really useful, it just feels like we are like missing something, that there is some kind of benefit to having an ranged melee attack but i cannot put my finger on what it is (unless you have the cool spoopy hand artefact and decide to use it with thorn whip)
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I think the best synergies for this spell are to do with the pull as a battlefield control effect, not the fact that it is a melee spell attack.
Or if you are an artificer with it. And you have a Druid who also has it. And the two of you “tug’o’war” an enemy back and forth while your melee guy carved them up
hey, i did not know this was also an artificer spell, thats cool i guess, free high power whip! Then again if you really want to move people arround and you happen to have both the players handbook and ebberon: rising from the las war it might be fun to have an tempest cleric who is also an mark of making human since then you get to cast elemental weapon and go arround on the front line pushing people left and right
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I think the best synergies for this spell are to do with the pull as a battlefield control effect, not the fact that it is a melee spell attack.
Or if you are an artificer with it. And you have a Druid who also has it. And the two of you “tug’o’war” an enemy back and forth while your melee guy carved them up
hey, i did not know this was also an artificer spell, thats cool i guess, free high power whip! Then again if you really want to move people arround and you happen to have both the players handbook and ebberon: rising from the las war it might be fun to have an tempest cleric who is also an mark of making human since then you get to cast elemental weapon and go arround on the front line pushing people left and right
Haha. I picture the DM after a few battles:
😑😑🤔 (rolls a d20) “the Orc vomits from motion sickness and has disadvantage on dex saves due to cochleae imbalance”
Its huge advantage is that you can use it in melee without disadvantage; yet you can still use it at limited range. With the pull effect, it would be of very limited use if you could only use it on enemies that were already next to you. Since it is still a spell attack rather than a weapon attack, the only mechanical benefit that I can see is that it is useful in both melee and ranged combat.
litterally every notable combat cantrips increases its damage output in the exact same way with the exception of shillelagh, and that does not count becuase its less of an combat cantrip and more of an weapon
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
litterally every notable combat cantrips increases its damage output in the exact same way with the exception of shillelagh, and that does not count becuase its less of an combat cantrip and more of an weapon
Oh I know. I was agreeing with Wolf, for that and what was said. Are the only things it has going for it. Mechanically a normal attack,Those don’t scale, where Thorn whip does. But like everything in D&D there is a time and a place
The absorb elements bonus is a good point. I play a healer druid who stays in the back and never have any use for that melee damage from absorb elements because I went with Magic Stone instead of thorn whip. (Full Disclosure: I know everyone hates magic stone but I like it and accept that is doesn't scale and loses steam after level 5. I'm hoping by then to find some lackeys to pay or trick into throwing my stones for me.) :)
I think I found what you are looking for. Wouldn't combining this with Warcaster make your reach for Opportunity Attacks 30ft? Just recently started playing Druid and that's what I came up with. Is this possible or am I missing something?
I think I found what you are looking for. Wouldn't combining this with Warcaster make your reach for Opportunity Attacks 30ft? Just recently started playing Druid and that's what I came up with. Is this possible or am I missing something?
It wouldn't because the spell doesn't extend your reach the way a whip or halberd does, so your Opportunity Attack range is unchanged.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
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so, the thorn whip cantrip is an melee attack with an 30 ft range, and it pulls an target 10 ft closer. Like yes it makes sense that its an melee spell attack, the thing you create to attack things with is itself making an melee attack, but this has the interesting situation where unlike many other ranged attack rolls, this one does not give you disadvantage on your attacks becuase it is not an ranged attack.
now, i am desperately trying to think of an feature that improves melee attacks or melee spell attacks that might have good synnergies with this particular cantrip becuase that would be rad, but the only thing i can think of is the death domain clerics channel divinity option and the hand of vecna, both of whom are stupid ideas
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I think the best synergies for this spell are to do with the pull as a battlefield control effect, not the fact that it is a melee spell attack.
Or if you are an artificer with it. And you have a Druid who also has it. And the two of you “tug’o’war” an enemy back and forth while your melee guy carved them up
Blank
Any option that wants a creature in a certain place will love attacks/spells like this. Create Bonfire? Check. Spirit Guardians? Check. Certain Paladin auras? Check. Any character that wants creatures closer to them than farther away? Check. This would include characters with sentinel, a level 17 Cavalier, a barbearian with Armor of Agathys active, or similar options. Have a nasty AoE spell that wants a creature to be moving through difficult terrain? Push/pull options like this can get the creature in to it and help keep them there.
And the all time favorite: creature pulled over the edge of a chasm. Doesn't even need to be high enough for fatal damage if all that you need is that creature out of the way for a turn or two (that it needs to spend climbing out of the chasm now).
yes, i get that using the spell to move people arround is really useful, it just feels like we are like missing something, that there is some kind of benefit to having an ranged melee attack but i cannot put my finger on what it is (unless you have the cool spoopy hand artefact and decide to use it with thorn whip)
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
hey, i did not know this was also an artificer spell, thats cool i guess, free high power whip! Then again if you really want to move people arround and you happen to have both the players handbook and ebberon: rising from the las war it might be fun to have an tempest cleric who is also an mark of making human since then you get to cast elemental weapon and go arround on the front line pushing people left and right
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Haha. I picture the DM after a few battles:
😑😑🤔 (rolls a d20) “the Orc vomits from motion sickness and has disadvantage on dex saves due to cochleae imbalance”
Blank
Its huge advantage is that you can use it in melee without disadvantage; yet you can still use it at limited range. With the pull effect, it would be of very limited use if you could only use it on enemies that were already next to you. Since it is still a spell attack rather than a weapon attack, the only mechanical benefit that I can see is that it is useful in both melee and ranged combat.
cantrip Damage scaling too. But that’s about it
Blank
litterally every notable combat cantrips increases its damage output in the exact same way with the exception of shillelagh, and that does not count becuase its less of an combat cantrip and more of an weapon
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Oh I know. I was agreeing with Wolf, for that and what was said. Are the only things it has going for it. Mechanically a normal attack,Those don’t scale, where Thorn whip does.
But like everything in D&D there is a time and a place
Blank
Combining this with Spike Growth is nasty
Off of the top of my head, the only thing I can think of that hasn't been mentioned is that it benefits from the bonus damage from Absorb Elements.
The absorb elements bonus is a good point. I play a healer druid who stays in the back and never have any use for that melee damage from absorb elements because I went with Magic Stone instead of thorn whip. (Full Disclosure: I know everyone hates magic stone but I like it and accept that is doesn't scale and loses steam after level 5. I'm hoping by then to find some lackeys to pay or trick into throwing my stones for me.) :)
I think I found what you are looking for. Wouldn't combining this with Warcaster make your reach for Opportunity Attacks 30ft? Just recently started playing Druid and that's what I came up with. Is this possible or am I missing something?
Spell Sniper increases your Thorn Whip range to 60 feet.
It wouldn't because the spell doesn't extend your reach the way a whip or halberd does, so your Opportunity Attack range is unchanged.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.