New DM here. I'm planning to start my first game this upcoming weekend. I have run a one-shot session of Pathfinder in the past, but don't have any other experience. I will be running the Lost Mines of Phandelver for a group of new players and I am hoping to run the adventure and future campaigns using "theater of the mind". I wanted to make a post to see if there are any other DM's that run their games this way and if there is any advice to give? Also are there any pitfalls that I can avoid? Looking to see what other's experience is to help with my own lack of experience.
The term "theater of the mind" can mean different things to different people, so it's a little tricky to discuss without definition.
For me, it simply means you're not relying on using battlemaps and miniatures, so all the action takes place in the minds of the people involved, based upon descriptive language from the DM - is that what you meant?
If so, that's what I would call normal for most RPG, including DnD. 5e doesn't have the reliance on miniatures play that 4e did, but does work well with it.
http://slyflourish.com/guide_to_narrative_combat.html is a pretty solid article. As for the pitfalls, the only issue I've had is my players not keeping track of where they are from round to round. Visual aids may still be handy depending on your group size(I run a 7 player group, so visual aids are a must for me.)
The only other advice i could offer to any new Dm's is don't over-prepare. There's nothing worse than having prepared a scripted event to have your players do the unexpected and throw you for a loop. i like to do a quick framework on a cue card of the encounters i expect my players to hit. to save time flipping through the monster manual.
The term "theater of the mind" can mean different things to different people, so it's a little tricky to discuss without definition.
For me, it simply means you're not relying on using battlemaps and miniatures, so all the action takes place in the minds of the people involved, based upon descriptive language from the DM - is that what you meant?
If so, that's what I would call normal for most RPG, including DnD. 5e doesn't have the reliance on miniatures play that 4e did, but does work well with it.
That's a good point, I had assumed that there was a universal definition and understanding of "theater of the mind". To clarify, I am looking to run the game without a battle map or miniatures.
http://slyflourish.com/guide_to_narrative_combat.html is a pretty solid article. As for the pitfalls, the only issue I've had is my players not keeping track of where they are from round to round. Visual aids may still be handy depending on your group size(I run a 7 player group, so visual aids are a must for me.)
The only other advice i could offer to any new Dm's is don't over-prepare. There's nothing worse than having prepared a scripted event to have your players do the unexpected and throw you for a loop. i like to do a quick framework on a cue card of the encounters i expect my players to hit. to save time flipping through the monster manual.
Hope that helps
Thanks for the advice, and the article. I'll give it a read.
The only other advice i could offer to any new Dm's is don't over-prepare.
Building on this, don't under-estimate your player's ability to fill in the blanks.
You say something like "The orc yells in fury and charges you with a greataxe held over his head."
Their mind goes: Orc. Bone necklace around his neck flapping around while he runs. Spittle from yelling. Hair flowing wildly. Rippled muscles. Sunlight gleaming on the axe as it comes at me."
Not in words, but they see something like that - however their mind paints it. You don't have to tell them how long it's been since the orc clipped his nails to be a bit more direct :)
Personally I feel that D&D as a game always has had a reliance on miniatures, even when the rules don't explicitly include them. Just looking at the rules a lot of them seem tailor made for miniatures, and less so for theater of the mind. For example, whether or not fireball is going to hit you, your friends, and other enemies around the big bad guy. Its a lot harder to judge who all gets hit with a fireball in theater of the mind. Dragon's cone weapons, etc. are also a lot harder to deal with. Where everyone is on the battlefield in relationship to everyone else is more difficult to keep track of in theater of the mind, in D&D. A lot of other games where you are almost always using ranged combat its easier. So key point to remember, you have to give the players more detailed information about where the monsters are in relation to them, and the types of objects nearby. If there is a barricade to duck behind you cant go two rounds and suddenly mention the bad guy ducks around the barricade, especially when the players would have obviously been using it. If there are two doors in the room, you need to make sure to mention both doors and not suddenly have a bad guy come out of the door to the left. (Hidden doors exempt of course) You can't just have the PCs fall of the cliff that you never mentioned, or more likely being pushed off.
Another deal is PCs splitting up and coming from two different directions or more. Basically awareness to where everyone is in relation to everyone else is important. Multiple attacks follow this theme. So PC attacks one bad guy, kills him, then moves to another bad guy and attacks him. Questions on whether or not you are close enough to heal a party member is also important.
Feels like the majority of the D&D games I've played in have tended to almost ignore distances for the most part in theater of the mind. So perhaps you can run over to the fighter who fell and heal him but not move any more to attack. Possibly still cast a spell or use a ranged attack though. Movement is a lot harder in theater of the mind since you have to keep track of all the monsters and PCs locations in your head. Even worse is when you forget the distance you said and suddenly the PC runs over to the fighter to heal him and based on what you originally said had enough movement to move in to attack (Assuming heals on bonus actions).
You have to think more about how to deal with disagreements between you and the player(s). When the PC says I'm charging forward to attack, ask for clarification, "did you intend to run through the acid pit or around it?" Don't just assume they meant they were charging through the acid pit, even if that's what they said because they forgot there was an acid pit. It could have also been they thought their character was not in line with the pit in the first place.
You may also find that players are either less detailed with their attacks. I.e. they just attack the monster and ignore the environment, making it very mechanical. Other times players might be a lot more creative and be like, is there something I can hide behind? Depending on the situation you can call for a perception check. If they roll a 15 or so, just say there is something even if you hadn't planed on there being anything. If they roll a 5, then there isn't anything. This is the opposite of the above. Its okay to add barriers and such players can hide behind, should they think to do so. Its less okay to add it for your monsters without having told the PCs it was there in the beginning.
Whirlwind attacks, and other actions that allow more than one enemy within five feet to be attacked is another thing that is harder to deal with.
As I was looking over the DM Book, I was reminded that keeping track of which goblin the PC is attacking vs which other goblin the other PCs are attacking, is something else to watch out for.
Personally I feel that D&D as a game always has had a reliance on miniatures, even when the rules don't explicitly include them.
Movement in OD&D, 1E, and 2E was given in inches...because the game's origins were in a miniatures game called Chain Mail (go Fighting Men!). Back in my earliest days I did use a cloth tape measure from Mom's sewing kit to measure out where the red jellybean magic-user was in relation to the Oreo cookie ogre because it was part of the rules. Around 1984 I went "theatre of the mind" almost entirely until I was gifted some lead figures for birthday/Xmas in '85, primarily because my handful of friends I gamed with had trouble figuring out where anything was. Spatial proximity in a melee is hard to relate with enough precision that all 4-8 people at the table have the same mental picture. Invariably one person has the layout backwards and takes an action that leaves the rest of the table confused.
To maintain the best spatial precision for the theatre of the mind D&D game is to have a small dry erase board, like an old-fashioned school slate, so you can quickly write out some X's & O's to clear up any confusion. Otherwise, as so many have suggested already, have good, descriptive narrative that keeps everyone engaged and proactive with the narrative. My best D&D session was a theatre of the mind session since the PCs, hidden in a cave to sleep, woke up to find an army had moved into over the night and they were now stuck in the middle of draconians, giants, evil knights, and all kinds of other Krynnery. Their escape was epic due to the vivid imagery I related and the players taking the cue to describe their actions with the same level of clarity. Miniatures were on the board but were never used because we didn't need them that night.
New-ish DM here. About 40 hours all theatre of the mind. Advantage and Disadvantage is a great tool to illustrate the abstract. Have landmarks in battles and towns that serve as refernce. Instead of saying the shop is across from the temple, the temple is a bloxk from the apothecary. The bar is on a sidestreet from tge garrison, etc. Use a massive clocktower or something that is visible from eaxh place for scale.
Give similar monsters a small descript. We just fought 4 giant zombi crabs. One was missing a claw, another had barnacles, another was pussing and another kept gurgling. This helps keep track of who is where.
We have a system where each PC has a map of the main town with their character sheet, and when its useful we use butcher paper and sharpies and draw out a small map for encounters. Instead of minis we have little tokens, one side is a picture from the internet of say an elf or dwarf PC or a creature and the other side has the same photo but red for "bloodied". they're about the size of pogs (I know dated reference but effective) and that way you have your visual element only when its necessary with VERY little prep (and incredibly portable). some encounters in pretty basic rooms we didn't bother, such as a square chapel.
My DM expanded this idea with a magnetic whiteboard that he uses because space at a table is limited, in the future he hopes to get a projector for a bit more fancy presentation but still using magnetic tokens instead of minis
Force your characters to think in 3 dimensions to make it more fun. Think of combat as something that can happen on a Smash Brother's map more so than a chess board. Use those volume terms yourself. "You hear a noise on a ledge above you." "A beam of day light shines from a crack in the floor." Require your players to climb, fly, dive into water, and use that space that a grid map just can't represent very well. It's okay to use drawings / bottle caps / even minis on note cards to help explain scenes from make players look at you and each other when making their decisions. That engages story telling mode in human beings. They'll start getting 'it' more quickly that way. Don't worry too much about the distances and give the players the benefit of the doubt if they go cinematic with it. "Can I make it back to the party?" Says the player who is 600' away.. "Sure you can book it and help from afar but it'll take you 3 rounds to make it within melee range." By squares they're basically screwed out from participating, but keeping the game more of a story telling game than nerd chess you can penalize them for a bad decision or poor foresight but not crush any hope of them helping out. It takes a little bit of work and a lot more talking, but I think 5e really spices up when you get everyone in character.
Thanks for all the advice everyone. We played out first session over the weekend, and there overall it went well. Some difficulty with misunderstanding the description of an area, but I think I'll get better at that with time. I definitely enjoyed the smooth flow of exploring the dungeon, getting into combat, and exploring the dungeon. Not having to stop and draw everything out and get minis situated was nice.
I think for this module you should run it proper the first time. there are a few encounters in there that are generalized you can do “theatre of the mind” for or whatever you young whipper snappers call it, but take the time run it properly the first time you will get more enjoyment out of it
Playing with a new group and for the most part was just telling them 'how things are' while allowing them to play. Many circumstance basically boiled down to something liek the following.
You want to attack the Monster? it will take a movement to get in position to help your ally and will put you in an advantageous position because you will hold the high ground (huehue chuckle). You have area to maneuver around the opponents but if you try to fire your bow from your current position you will have a difficult time hitting the enemy. One of the things that I also allow for is when people are casting an area spell for them to pick what looks to be the safest location to use as the epicenter.
Recently I have been working through the backlog of Critical Role and making judgments (judgements?) on every ruling Matt Mercer makes of how he handled the situation and how he conveys the circumstances to the players. He does an excellent job conveying the... environment...scenario...circumstances...situation...experience...tone...milleu. I am missing the appropriate verbage at the moment. BUT REGARDLESS he gives so many tidbits that you can interpret individually, and lets them make mistakes. I currently will give caution when a player makes an action that would be counterproductive, but in the future when they have more experience with their character I will follow more of a you want to cast heat metal on your team mates weapon? sure.
I have spent 20 minutes with a friend trying to figure out the word I am groping for. To no avail.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Something that might be able to help is to completely disregard the movement rules. Something that I do when I am DMing, is instead of thinking"How far can my character move in 30 ft.?", think "If my character moved, would she be able to reach the half-orc?" I am sorry as that came off as a lot more convoluted then I intended, but you get the general idea.
- use your hands to explains distances and where they are. They'll get it and wont need you to redescribe everything everytimes. Aka place a hand up front, thats middle of the room, using the other hand you point where they are.
- describe combat. Do not let it stop at hit or miss. Even just a swing wide and side stepped it is better then just hit or miss.
- tell your players not to hesitate asking questions if they lost the picture you paint.
Thats all i can think off the top of my head.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
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It is important to note that a less-is-more approach is helpful when making descriptions. Using the least amount of words to provide the largest number of important details, so as to avoid simply saying so many words that the players can't absorb all of them - like a verbal equivalent of a wall-of-text-style post.
Depends on your players i guess, because mine wants every single details they can. and i figured out that if i omit certain useless details they end up asking about it anyway and i have to describe every nook and crannies. my players are like that, they dont care about visuals as long as i can visual create create the whole room to them. but this is also why i said vocabulary is important. you have to use words they will understand not big words that feel great to say but yet players dont know what that mean.
best exemple of that is the dread gazebo !
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
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Hello,
New DM here. I'm planning to start my first game this upcoming weekend. I have run a one-shot session of Pathfinder in the past, but don't have any other experience. I will be running the Lost Mines of Phandelver for a group of new players and I am hoping to run the adventure and future campaigns using "theater of the mind". I wanted to make a post to see if there are any other DM's that run their games this way and if there is any advice to give? Also are there any pitfalls that I can avoid? Looking to see what other's experience is to help with my own lack of experience.
Thanks in advance.
The term "theater of the mind" can mean different things to different people, so it's a little tricky to discuss without definition.
For me, it simply means you're not relying on using battlemaps and miniatures, so all the action takes place in the minds of the people involved, based upon descriptive language from the DM - is that what you meant?
If so, that's what I would call normal for most RPG, including DnD. 5e doesn't have the reliance on miniatures play that 4e did, but does work well with it.
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http://slyflourish.com/guide_to_narrative_combat.html is a pretty solid article. As for the pitfalls, the only issue I've had is my players not keeping track of where they are from round to round. Visual aids may still be handy depending on your group size(I run a 7 player group, so visual aids are a must for me.)
The only other advice i could offer to any new Dm's is don't over-prepare. There's nothing worse than having prepared a scripted event to have your players do the unexpected and throw you for a loop. i like to do a quick framework on a cue card of the encounters i expect my players to hit. to save time flipping through the monster manual.
Hope that helps
Personally I feel that D&D as a game always has had a reliance on miniatures, even when the rules don't explicitly include them. Just looking at the rules a lot of them seem tailor made for miniatures, and less so for theater of the mind. For example, whether or not fireball is going to hit you, your friends, and other enemies around the big bad guy. Its a lot harder to judge who all gets hit with a fireball in theater of the mind. Dragon's cone weapons, etc. are also a lot harder to deal with. Where everyone is on the battlefield in relationship to everyone else is more difficult to keep track of in theater of the mind, in D&D. A lot of other games where you are almost always using ranged combat its easier. So key point to remember, you have to give the players more detailed information about where the monsters are in relation to them, and the types of objects nearby. If there is a barricade to duck behind you cant go two rounds and suddenly mention the bad guy ducks around the barricade, especially when the players would have obviously been using it. If there are two doors in the room, you need to make sure to mention both doors and not suddenly have a bad guy come out of the door to the left. (Hidden doors exempt of course) You can't just have the PCs fall of the cliff that you never mentioned, or more likely being pushed off.
Another deal is PCs splitting up and coming from two different directions or more. Basically awareness to where everyone is in relation to everyone else is important. Multiple attacks follow this theme. So PC attacks one bad guy, kills him, then moves to another bad guy and attacks him. Questions on whether or not you are close enough to heal a party member is also important.
Feels like the majority of the D&D games I've played in have tended to almost ignore distances for the most part in theater of the mind. So perhaps you can run over to the fighter who fell and heal him but not move any more to attack. Possibly still cast a spell or use a ranged attack though. Movement is a lot harder in theater of the mind since you have to keep track of all the monsters and PCs locations in your head. Even worse is when you forget the distance you said and suddenly the PC runs over to the fighter to heal him and based on what you originally said had enough movement to move in to attack (Assuming heals on bonus actions).
You have to think more about how to deal with disagreements between you and the player(s). When the PC says I'm charging forward to attack, ask for clarification, "did you intend to run through the acid pit or around it?" Don't just assume they meant they were charging through the acid pit, even if that's what they said because they forgot there was an acid pit. It could have also been they thought their character was not in line with the pit in the first place.
You may also find that players are either less detailed with their attacks. I.e. they just attack the monster and ignore the environment, making it very mechanical. Other times players might be a lot more creative and be like, is there something I can hide behind? Depending on the situation you can call for a perception check. If they roll a 15 or so, just say there is something even if you hadn't planed on there being anything. If they roll a 5, then there isn't anything. This is the opposite of the above. Its okay to add barriers and such players can hide behind, should they think to do so. Its less okay to add it for your monsters without having told the PCs it was there in the beginning.
Whirlwind attacks, and other actions that allow more than one enemy within five feet to be attacked is another thing that is harder to deal with.
As I was looking over the DM Book, I was reminded that keeping track of which goblin the PC is attacking vs which other goblin the other PCs are attacking, is something else to watch out for.
We all leave footprints in the sands of time.
New-ish DM here. About 40 hours all theatre of the mind. Advantage and Disadvantage is a great tool to illustrate the abstract. Have landmarks in battles and towns that serve as refernce. Instead of saying the shop is across from the temple, the temple is a bloxk from the apothecary. The bar is on a sidestreet from tge garrison, etc. Use a massive clocktower or something that is visible from eaxh place for scale.
Give similar monsters a small descript. We just fought 4 giant zombi crabs. One was missing a claw, another had barnacles, another was pussing and another kept gurgling. This helps keep track of who is where.
We have a system where each PC has a map of the main town with their character sheet, and when its useful we use butcher paper and sharpies and draw out a small map for encounters. Instead of minis we have little tokens, one side is a picture from the internet of say an elf or dwarf PC or a creature and the other side has the same photo but red for "bloodied". they're about the size of pogs (I know dated reference but effective) and that way you have your visual element only when its necessary with VERY little prep (and incredibly portable). some encounters in pretty basic rooms we didn't bother, such as a square chapel.
My DM expanded this idea with a magnetic whiteboard that he uses because space at a table is limited, in the future he hopes to get a projector for a bit more fancy presentation but still using magnetic tokens instead of minis
"Be fair. Don't over prepare. Make it fun for everyone." -Chris Perkins
Force your characters to think in 3 dimensions to make it more fun. Think of combat as something that can happen on a Smash Brother's map more so than a chess board. Use those volume terms yourself. "You hear a noise on a ledge above you." "A beam of day light shines from a crack in the floor." Require your players to climb, fly, dive into water, and use that space that a grid map just can't represent very well.
It's okay to use drawings / bottle caps / even minis on note cards to help explain scenes from make players look at you and each other when making their decisions. That engages story telling mode in human beings. They'll start getting 'it' more quickly that way.
Don't worry too much about the distances and give the players the benefit of the doubt if they go cinematic with it. "Can I make it back to the party?" Says the player who is 600' away.. "Sure you can book it and help from afar but it'll take you 3 rounds to make it within melee range." By squares they're basically screwed out from participating, but keeping the game more of a story telling game than nerd chess you can penalize them for a bad decision or poor foresight but not crush any hope of them helping out.
It takes a little bit of work and a lot more talking, but I think 5e really spices up when you get everyone in character.
Thanks for all the advice everyone. We played out first session over the weekend, and there overall it went well. Some difficulty with misunderstanding the description of an area, but I think I'll get better at that with time. I definitely enjoyed the smooth flow of exploring the dungeon, getting into combat, and exploring the dungeon. Not having to stop and draw everything out and get minis situated was nice.
I think for this module you should run it proper the first time. there are a few encounters in there that are generalized you can do “theatre of the mind” for or whatever you young whipper snappers call it, but take the time run it properly the first time you will get more enjoyment out of it
There is no single "proper" way to run things.
Playing with a new group and for the most part was just telling them 'how things are' while allowing them to play. Many circumstance basically boiled down to something liek the following.
You want to attack the Monster? it will take a movement to get in position to help your ally and will put you in an advantageous position because you will hold the high ground (huehue chuckle). You have area to maneuver around the opponents but if you try to fire your bow from your current position you will have a difficult time hitting the enemy. One of the things that I also allow for is when people are casting an area spell for them to pick what looks to be the safest location to use as the epicenter.
Recently I have been working through the backlog of Critical Role and making judgments (judgements?) on every ruling Matt Mercer makes of how he handled the situation and how he conveys the circumstances to the players. He does an excellent job conveying the... environment...scenario...circumstances...situation...experience...tone...milleu. I am missing the appropriate verbage at the moment. BUT REGARDLESS he gives so many tidbits that you can interpret individually, and lets them make mistakes. I currently will give caution when a player makes an action that would be counterproductive, but in the future when they have more experience with their character I will follow more of a you want to cast heat metal on your team mates weapon? sure.
I have spent 20 minutes with a friend trying to figure out the word I am groping for. To no avail.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Something that might be able to help is to completely disregard the movement rules. Something that I do when I am DMing, is instead of thinking"How far can my character move in 30 ft.?", think "If my character moved, would she be able to reach the half-orc?" I am sorry as that came off as a lot more convoluted then I intended, but you get the general idea.
Easy if you have the vocabulary...
- tons of details. Descriptions is key.
- use your hands to explains distances and where they are. They'll get it and wont need you to redescribe everything everytimes. Aka place a hand up front, thats middle of the room, using the other hand you point where they are.
- describe combat. Do not let it stop at hit or miss. Even just a swing wide and side stepped it is better then just hit or miss.
- tell your players not to hesitate asking questions if they lost the picture you paint.
Thats all i can think off the top of my head.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
It is important to note that a less-is-more approach is helpful when making descriptions. Using the least amount of words to provide the largest number of important details, so as to avoid simply saying so many words that the players can't absorb all of them - like a verbal equivalent of a wall-of-text-style post.
Depends on your players i guess, because mine wants every single details they can. and i figured out that if i omit certain useless details they end up asking about it anyway and i have to describe every nook and crannies. my players are like that, they dont care about visuals as long as i can visual create create the whole room to them. but this is also why i said vocabulary is important. you have to use words they will understand not big words that feel great to say but yet players dont know what that mean.
best exemple of that is the dread gazebo !
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)