My wife, who's not really into the fantasy stuff, has decided she wants to join with some of our other friends to play D&D for the first time. This is mainly because she is best friends with one of the other wives who incidentally loves D&D. In talking with her, she said it would be fun to play a character like Val Kilmer's The Saint who is sneaky and can change personalities/disguises all the time. Im thinking potentially a Rogue or Bard but I'm hesitant to give her magic as she wants to keep the mechanics simple. Thoughts from the interwebs?
I need some clarification: Is your wife playing for the first time, or the whole group? If the whole group is starting from scratch, I think a proper "session zero" could be done, so that the character is not only based on one thing - the disguises.
Disguises can be made with a disguise kit and the deception/performance proficiencies. The Entertainer background grants you the proficiency and the kit on any class. A powerful Fey patron and Mask of Many Faces (unlimited Disguise Self spells) would work in addition to Bard & Rogue.
If you just want your wife to join for one or two game nights to have fun & like a "trial run", give her an NPC with a limited set of stats (simple mechanics) and a magical ring that lets her cast Disguise Self a x-number / unlimited time a day.
Yeah sorry about that, could have explained better.
We are starting a new campaign and I believe the intent is for her to play with us long term. She is a total newcomer to D&D and rpg's in general however the rest of our group are all long term D&D players.
I'm leaning toward Rogue and maybe I'll try to bargain with our DM for a ring of disguise self to start as you say as part of her RP.
My advise to help your wife getting started would be: 1. Do a session zero, which explains the world she will be playing in (especially if the other players know this world already) 2a. If you start out at level 1, prepare the path she will take at level 2&3 (when you chose your archetype), so she can work towards that from the beginning 2b. Start at level 3, when groundwork for archetypes has already been done (e.g. like Critical Role campaign 2 did) 3. Ask her, if she would be fine to play a character attached to her best friend, so she has a reason to stick to the group and a veteran player who can take over the lead and guide her through the first few sessions (of course ask her friend to help you with that idea). Unless you will play your self and wan to fill that role.
If she really wants to commit to the "charming chameleon" type of rogue, those are a few of "pairs" you can create: She is the younger sibling, that keeps her older brother/sister out of trouble by her wits and charm (flirting with inn keeper her relative has just offended, to still be able to rent the room for the night). She is the servant (actual or BFF like Samwise in LotR) that has to organize the travelling adventure for her master, so she keeps track of maps, contracts and the purse, haggling with merchants, arguing with town guards over a toll and finding that shady "nightclub" for party members her paladin master would never agree to visit. She is the right hand man/woman to do the jobs in the organization she and her friend are in. Her friend might be the muscle, while she is the brain. She is the burglar, while your wife charms the guards to look away at the right time during the heist.
As you might guess, I think having a compelling story to build upon is much more important to me (and long term motivation) than having to know any rules.
I hope you will have a wonderful time together playing in the new campaign.
I think the Rogue class is probably best for lending itself to a Saint type character, if you want to ensure some easy fun with the disguises part I would recommend Changeling as the race since they can look like any other race at will.
The charlatan background gives her proficiency with the disguise kit. That's enough to make her like the Saint, after all, he didn't use magic for his disguises. If you go rogue she can decide if she wants to be an arcane trickster when she reaches level three, or she just takes another subclass with less book keeping.
Rogue (Arcane Trickster) at 3rd level or higher (see #1, above, but lower Cha (generally speaking) and fewer spell slots)
Warlock at 2nd level or higher (high Cha, at-will disguise self from Mask of Many Faces)
Rogue at 1st or 2nd level (see #2, above, but no disguise self)
It's possible that one or two other rogue subclasses (Assassin and Mastermind) belong on that list, and basically anything with good Deception and/or disguise self can make it work, but those are the all-stars. In other words, everyone else who answered is right.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
IMO, rogues and fighters are the easiest classes to learn and bookkeep. You can be a stealthy fighter, but a rogue would be more efficient at it.
I don't know the saint character you are referencing, but if different personalities and disguises are its thing, then the changling from ebberon sounds appropriate.
The Saint was an old series of shows that eventually had a movie or two made about it. He was a British detective that had a reputation for skirting around the edges of the law to solve crimes, sometimes using disguises and misdirection tactics to catch the criminals. He was a charming but capable rogue of sorts.
I'm a bit surprised that people here are rating Assassin so lowly. Creating disguises is pretty much what their level 9 and 13 abilities are, and they get an automatic disguise kit. Disguise Self is a handy spell, but its easily replaced with a [Tooltip Not Found] or aforementioned disguise kit. Rogues also get expertise, so they can double up on the social skills as easily as a bard, and at an earlier level.
Show her the list of classes, mention that the ones that can cast spells are a little harder to play, and let her pick for herself. She'll understand whats going on better, even if you want to make her a pregen.
I'd say go Archfey Warlock with Mask of Many faces. She'll be able to change her appearance at will and blast things with Eldritch Blast - both pretty easy for a new player to grasp. The Archfey level one ability will give her Simon Templar's charm. Easy-peasy, everything she wants in an easy to grasp package.
A disguise kit is all well and good, but you still need to gather clothes and stuff, which could be a pain to a new player.
Yeah sorry about that, could have explained better.
We are starting a new campaign and I believe the intent is for her to play with us long term. She is a total newcomer to D&D and rpg's in general however the rest of our group are all long term D&D players.
I'm leaning toward Rogue and maybe I'll try to bargain with our DM for a ring of disguise self to start as you say as part of her RP.
Mastermind Rogue.
mimic people. rogues mechanics are simple. can use the disguise kit however, or, always be on look out for magic rings or something for disguise self.
I think I lean to the MAstermind Rogue as well. But most of these would do a very good job of what she is looking for.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
For the Saint, like the movie or the show? Mastermind Rogue if she was referencing the show. Rogue Thief if she was referencing the movie. I, also, feel the Charlatan background would be of benefit to her.
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DM: Are you sure?
Wizard: Yes. I cast the Wish spell and I wish that everybody loves me!
DM: You transform into an irresistible, magnificent feast. It was so great, all who participated in devouring you tell of the joy they felt with tears in their eyes and all who hear the tale only feel sorrow that they weren't there to eat.
You might think your wife wouldn't want something complicated, but then finds herself bored because she doesn't have enough options.
I played in a campaign with my cousin who is in his teens and he could figure out an arcane trickster pretty well. I suggest you show her a couple videos explaining the systems you think are complicated and let her decide.
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My wife, who's not really into the fantasy stuff, has decided she wants to join with some of our other friends to play D&D for the first time. This is mainly because she is best friends with one of the other wives who incidentally loves D&D. In talking with her, she said it would be fun to play a character like Val Kilmer's The Saint who is sneaky and can change personalities/disguises all the time. Im thinking potentially a Rogue or Bard but I'm hesitant to give her magic as she wants to keep the mechanics simple. Thoughts from the interwebs?
I need some clarification:
Is your wife playing for the first time, or the whole group? If the whole group is starting from scratch, I think a proper "session zero" could be done, so that the character is not only based on one thing - the disguises.
Disguises can be made with a disguise kit and the deception/performance proficiencies. The Entertainer background grants you the proficiency and the kit on any class.
A powerful Fey patron and Mask of Many Faces (unlimited Disguise Self spells) would work in addition to Bard & Rogue.
If you just want your wife to join for one or two game nights to have fun & like a "trial run", give her an NPC with a limited set of stats (simple mechanics) and a magical ring that lets her cast Disguise Self a x-number / unlimited time a day.
Yeah sorry about that, could have explained better.
We are starting a new campaign and I believe the intent is for her to play with us long term. She is a total newcomer to D&D and rpg's in general however the rest of our group are all long term D&D players.
I'm leaning toward Rogue and maybe I'll try to bargain with our DM for a ring of disguise self to start as you say as part of her RP.
My advise to help your wife getting started would be:
1. Do a session zero, which explains the world she will be playing in (especially if the other players know this world already)
2a. If you start out at level 1, prepare the path she will take at level 2&3 (when you chose your archetype), so she can work towards that from the beginning
2b. Start at level 3, when groundwork for archetypes has already been done (e.g. like Critical Role campaign 2 did)
3. Ask her, if she would be fine to play a character attached to her best friend, so she has a reason to stick to the group and a veteran player who can take over the lead and guide her through the first few sessions (of course ask her friend to help you with that idea). Unless you will play your self and wan to fill that role.
If she really wants to commit to the "charming chameleon" type of rogue, those are a few of "pairs" you can create:
She is the younger sibling, that keeps her older brother/sister out of trouble by her wits and charm (flirting with inn keeper her relative has just offended, to still be able to rent the room for the night).
She is the servant (actual or BFF like Samwise in LotR) that has to organize the travelling adventure for her master, so she keeps track of maps, contracts and the purse, haggling with merchants, arguing with town guards over a toll and finding that shady "nightclub" for party members her paladin master would never agree to visit.
She is the right hand man/woman to do the jobs in the organization she and her friend are in. Her friend might be the muscle, while she is the brain. She is the burglar, while your wife charms the guards to look away at the right time during the heist.
As you might guess, I think having a compelling story to build upon is much more important to me (and long term motivation) than having to know any rules.
I hope you will have a wonderful time together playing in the new campaign.
I think the Rogue class is probably best for lending itself to a Saint type character, if you want to ensure some easy fun with the disguises part I would recommend Changeling as the race since they can look like any other race at will.
The charlatan background gives her proficiency with the disguise kit. That's enough to make her like the Saint, after all, he didn't use magic for his disguises. If you go rogue she can decide if she wants to be an arcane trickster when she reaches level three, or she just takes another subclass with less book keeping.
The best classes (loose definition) for disguise are, in approximate order:
It's possible that one or two other rogue subclasses (Assassin and Mastermind) belong on that list, and basically anything with good Deception and/or disguise self can make it work, but those are the all-stars. In other words, everyone else who answered is right.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
IMO, rogues and fighters are the easiest classes to learn and bookkeep. You can be a stealthy fighter, but a rogue would be more efficient at it.
I don't know the saint character you are referencing, but if different personalities and disguises are its thing, then the changling from ebberon sounds appropriate.
The Saint was an old series of shows that eventually had a movie or two made about it. He was a British detective that had a reputation for skirting around the edges of the law to solve crimes, sometimes using disguises and misdirection tactics to catch the criminals. He was a charming but capable rogue of sorts.
I'm a bit surprised that people here are rating Assassin so lowly. Creating disguises is pretty much what their level 9 and 13 abilities are, and they get an automatic disguise kit. Disguise Self is a handy spell, but its easily replaced with a [Tooltip Not Found] or aforementioned disguise kit. Rogues also get expertise, so they can double up on the social skills as easily as a bard, and at an earlier level.
Show her the list of classes, mention that the ones that can cast spells are a little harder to play, and let her pick for herself. She'll understand whats going on better, even if you want to make her a pregen.
Give her the spells. If she wants to be like The Saint, telling her she can disguise self will blow her mind.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I'd say go Archfey Warlock with Mask of Many faces. She'll be able to change her appearance at will and blast things with Eldritch Blast - both pretty easy for a new player to grasp. The Archfey level one ability will give her Simon Templar's charm. Easy-peasy, everything she wants in an easy to grasp package.
A disguise kit is all well and good, but you still need to gather clothes and stuff, which could be a pain to a new player.
Mastermind Rogue.
mimic people. rogues mechanics are simple. can use the disguise kit however, or, always be on look out for magic rings or something for disguise self.
Blank
I think I lean to the MAstermind Rogue as well. But most of these would do a very good job of what she is looking for.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Hm... I'm late to this discussion, huh?
For the Saint, like the movie or the show? Mastermind Rogue if she was referencing the show. Rogue Thief if she was referencing the movie. I, also, feel the Charlatan background would be of benefit to her.
DM: Are you sure?
Wizard: Yes. I cast the Wish spell and I wish that everybody loves me!
DM: You transform into an irresistible, magnificent feast. It was so great, all who participated in devouring you tell of the joy they felt with tears in their eyes and all who hear the tale only feel sorrow that they weren't there to eat.
I say changeling Fighter. Straightforward, easy, already set up. Very fun to play! Experience playing a elf fighter in 4th edition. Trust me!
You might think your wife wouldn't want something complicated, but then finds herself bored because she doesn't have enough options.
I played in a campaign with my cousin who is in his teens and he could figure out an arcane trickster pretty well. I suggest you show her a couple videos explaining the systems you think are complicated and let her decide.