I know that Beast hasn't been converted to 5.5 as of yet, but since DDB allows you to mix the new base class with old subclasses, I'm wondering people's thoughts on allowing weapon masteries with the PotB natural weapon ability. Right now each option for the Form of the Beast does give an additional perk on top of damage - sapping health, extra attack, or reach and reaction. Using this subclass feature means missing out on the new weapon masteries which are a good chunk of the base class feature, so I'm curious if people think it would be too overpowered to allow a weapon mastery with these natural weapons on top of their current abilities, or if that balances out the tradeoff of using these instead of a typical weapon. And if so - which masteries do you feel fits with each type of natural weapons?
With weapon masteries being a thing now, these feel less like a cool special full subclass ability and more like a slightly bigger pool of additional attack buffs to choose from.
I know there's no RAW to apply here, I'm just interested in people's thoughts on how they might update this subclass with the new rules!
They definitely felt potent before 5.5, but now that anyone with weapon masteries gets extra abilities on attacks for free anyway, do you feel that it still holds up as something worthwhile to dedicate the centerpiece of the subclass to?
The Nick property gives you the same benefit as the Claw ability, with the only extra bonus being you can add your modifier with the claws. There's no direct parallel to the Bite, but getting to heal hp equal to your PB once a turn if you hit feels pretty on par with the rest of them. I'll say the Tail feels the strongest with getting to add 1d8 to your AC for one attack, but that's pretty much the one benefit that it feels like you're getting from this whole feature. And all of those are only when raging, and you need to choose one at the start. To me it feels like the way this feature translates to 5.5 is that it's giving you temporary access to one extra weapon mastery between a choice of 3. A novelty before every martial class could do that all the time anyway, but not very useful now.
The nick property does also give you another attack, but there are two caveats here:
The damage of the claw will be roughly double that of a dagger. (1D4 + 2 = 4.5 vs. 1D6 + 3 + 2 = 8.5)
You can actually use the claw with nick starting at level 5. First, attack with a shortsword. Second, attack with the claw. Third attack with the claw again. Finally, attack with a dagger. Keep in mind that you have not used your bonus action, so if you get duel wielder at level 4, you get another attack with your shortsword.
I could definitely be wrong about this, but my understanding of it is that since they claws/bite/tail are considered 'natural weapons' and not unarmed strikes, you wouldn't be able to combo a shortsword/dagger/claw that way. You'd need the shortsword in one hand, dagger in the other, but also need a free hand for the claws - wording on the feature says "Each of your hands transforms into a claw, which you can use as a weapon if it’s empty."
However to your point, hitting level 5 with the extra attack does open up the possibility of mixing a weapon mastery with one attack and one of the FotB bonuses with the other.
I could definitely be wrong about this, but my understanding of it is that since they claws/bite/tail are considered 'natural weapons' and not unarmed strikes, you wouldn't be able to combo a shortsword/dagger/claw that way. You'd need the shortsword in one hand, dagger in the other, but also need a free hand for the claws - wording on the feature says "Each of your hands transforms into a claw, which you can use as a weapon if it’s empty."
However to your point, hitting level 5 with the extra attack does open up the possibility of mixing a weapon mastery with one attack and one of the FotB bonuses with the other.
You can draw or stow one weapon on your turn and do the same each time you attack as part of the attack action.
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I know that Beast hasn't been converted to 5.5 as of yet, but since DDB allows you to mix the new base class with old subclasses, I'm wondering people's thoughts on allowing weapon masteries with the PotB natural weapon ability. Right now each option for the Form of the Beast does give an additional perk on top of damage - sapping health, extra attack, or reach and reaction. Using this subclass feature means missing out on the new weapon masteries which are a good chunk of the base class feature, so I'm curious if people think it would be too overpowered to allow a weapon mastery with these natural weapons on top of their current abilities, or if that balances out the tradeoff of using these instead of a typical weapon. And if so - which masteries do you feel fits with each type of natural weapons?
With weapon masteries being a thing now, these feel less like a cool special full subclass ability and more like a slightly bigger pool of additional attack buffs to choose from.
I know there's no RAW to apply here, I'm just interested in people's thoughts on how they might update this subclass with the new rules!
The weapons seem pretty potent already. I wouldn't allow masteries with them unless we actually tested it and they were weaker than expected.
[fixed grammer]
They definitely felt potent before 5.5, but now that anyone with weapon masteries gets extra abilities on attacks for free anyway, do you feel that it still holds up as something worthwhile to dedicate the centerpiece of the subclass to?
The Nick property gives you the same benefit as the Claw ability, with the only extra bonus being you can add your modifier with the claws. There's no direct parallel to the Bite, but getting to heal hp equal to your PB once a turn if you hit feels pretty on par with the rest of them. I'll say the Tail feels the strongest with getting to add 1d8 to your AC for one attack, but that's pretty much the one benefit that it feels like you're getting from this whole feature. And all of those are only when raging, and you need to choose one at the start. To me it feels like the way this feature translates to 5.5 is that it's giving you temporary access to one extra weapon mastery between a choice of 3. A novelty before every martial class could do that all the time anyway, but not very useful now.
The nick property does also give you another attack, but there are two caveats here:
I could definitely be wrong about this, but my understanding of it is that since they claws/bite/tail are considered 'natural weapons' and not unarmed strikes, you wouldn't be able to combo a shortsword/dagger/claw that way. You'd need the shortsword in one hand, dagger in the other, but also need a free hand for the claws - wording on the feature says "Each of your hands transforms into a claw, which you can use as a weapon if it’s empty."
However to your point, hitting level 5 with the extra attack does open up the possibility of mixing a weapon mastery with one attack and one of the FotB bonuses with the other.
You can draw or stow one weapon on your turn and do the same each time you attack as part of the attack action.