Literally the best class ever. I'll put my Gloom Stalker Ranger up against any Paladin you want. You will spend your combat trying to catch me to hit me, dealing with entangle and Spike growth just to move while I hit you with arrows. 1st round you will most likely lose half or more of your hit points.
The beast can act as a valid ally to trigger the rogue's sneak attack feature.
If the table is using the optional flanking rule in the DMG, the beast can (again with zero action economy used by the ranger) set it up for the melee PCs.
If there is any melee PCs while the ranger has an open bonus action (perhaps the hunter's mark target is not dead yet or the ranger is concentrating on something like conjure animals) then starting at level 7 the ranger can grant advantage to the next attack against them, specifically helping a PC with a big single attack, like a rogue, barbarian, or paladin. This is even more impactful at tables that use feats and a PC has one of the "power attack" feats.
If the ranger is not using or is at a table that doesn't use feats, then many of the better beast options deal better damage than a single ranger longbow attack. Even if it is the same or slightly less damage, many times the beast's rider ability is better than a couple more points of damage. Sometimes the beat's rider ability is still worth even if the ranger has a "power attack" feat, like a knock prone effect or a grapple/restrain effect.
The beast acts on it's own when separated from the ranger or the ranger is out of commission, so if the ranger is knock unconscious or some other effect renders them "out of the fight" for a bit, the ranger player still has something to do. If the party happens to split up the beast can go with one group, perhaps the group with terrible passive perceptions, while the ranger goes with the other.
Beast Masters don't get any bonuses or advantages on any of those beyond what the base Ranger does. And the "best build" options for it usually involve grabbing specific animal companions from obscure sources like modules. And having its best power boost come online at level 11? Most campaigns are over by that point. These are all hallmarks of a bad subclass, not a good one. A good subclass does not require you to do all that in order to be viable.
If a dm can use a beast to intresting effect, so can a ranger.
The best part of having a creature instead of a generic stat block is its specific traits. Every creature has something. Blindsight, keen senses poison, unique movement (burrow, or flyby as noteworthy example), refresh abilities etc.
Thanks to the flexible framework of the base ranger it's easy to setup an advantageous senario to work with your beast ( spells like fog cloud and beast sense, equipment options like nets or basically swaping to any weapon style appropriate to the senario).
When the phb came out there were only 2 options for blindsight at level 3. (Ranger or druid) this can be both a defensive and offensive boost in darkness or fog (Real or magical)
Even an ox or a mule could be useful as "grapple and drag" options for spikegrowth.
Even a random bug would be a damage boost and has some benefits (see franks posts #18 and #20 with some examples of cr 0 use options) and you don't even need to feel bad killing them off as they already have Short lifspans.(note: stirge is listed as existing in almost every environment even avernus so i think of it like a mosquitoe)
Even post tasha's, the odd phb action economy can be leverageable because your bonus action is still free.one example, you could order a companion to attack, attack yourself and use summon spell bonus action at the same time. spreading or focusing damage across the whole field can really make the ranger a tactical control leader.
The double Help actions on each turn can be really fun and potent, especially when doing a "not all combat combat", like a skill challenge. Also great for grappling strategies.
The net. I always forget the net. The beast master, as far as I know, is the only subclass that can use a new and make an attack on the same turn.
Small beast master rangers also get a free, just like a rogue, bonus action disengage or dash, in addition to increased movement and expanded movement type(s) when using a medium beast as a mount.
I just played a session with a group of friends, we don’t optimize, but we found a very funny use for the companion(a falcon with hawk stats), he seduced one bandit(critically), two drow and three boars. we laughed instead of played half the session, because we imagined someone in love with a bird.
Sorry, but the fact that the Beast Master has to use an action rather than a bonus action to command their critter, unlike the Drakewarden or Battle Smith, is a huge penalty for a class with Extra Attack. And the drake has better abilities than any single option for Beast Master companion, on top of being significantly easier to re-summon if it dies and being more durable thanks to having more HP, a better AC than nearly all available animal companions, and immunity to an elemental damage type of your choice. Beast Master is just a very badly constructed subclass.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Sorry, but the fact that the Beast Master has to use an action rather than a bonus action to command their critter, unlike the Drakewarden or Battle Smith, is a huge penalty for a class with Extra Attack. And the drake has better abilities than any single option for Beast Master companion, on top of being significantly easier to re-summon if it dies and being more durable thanks to having more HP, a better AC than nearly all available animal companions, and immunity to an elemental damage type of your choice. Beast Master is just a very badly constructed subclass.
My friend, why are you bringing the Battle Smith into this conversation? Because it gets a robot dog? The Battle Smith in no way, shape, or form, compares or competes with the ranger class. They are completely different.
The Drake Warden is power creep from an optional book. Most tables I am a player at, and all tables I am the DM at, don't allow this, many, and certainly not all optional expansion books. That is on par with saying all other clerics are terrible because the twilight cleric is so strong. Note: The drake vanishes when it gets to zero hit points, as opposed to the beast companions (either version) that don't specifically.
The PHB beast master used action economy in an advanced way, namely the reaction. It also uses attack riders, positioning, movement types, and tactics in a way that nothing else in the handbook can compare to. The same goes for most other subclasses from WotC option expansion books. The drake warden gives extra damage, just like the gloomstalker does, because that is what people cried for. But that is mostly it. The PHB beast master gives a damage boost, not zero like you imply, alongside several other strategic and tactical benefits. These benefits are not as easy to see, comprehend, or use as just...more damage...but it is there, and strong.
Sorry, but the fact that the Beast Master has to use an action rather than a bonus action to command their critter, unlike the Drakewarden or Battle Smith, is a huge penalty for a class with Extra Attack. And the drake has better abilities than any single option for Beast Master companion, on top of being significantly easier to re-summon if it dies and being more durable thanks to having more HP, a better AC than nearly all available animal companions, and immunity to an elemental damage type of your choice. Beast Master is just a very badly constructed subclass.
extra attack works with it, they even get two attacks for the beast and one for the ranger at level 11. the drake has less variation in traits, and is awful as a spy/scout. also a drake is a drake, not a beast, and is partially magical, so it is more prone to anti-magic and anti-dragon weaponry/abilities/traps. and like others pointed out, the fact that there is heavy power creep doesn’t mean the rest is poorly constructed
Sorry, but the fact that the Beast Master has to use an action rather than a bonus action to command their critter, unlike the Drakewarden or Battle Smith, is a huge penalty for a class with Extra Attack. And the drake has better abilities than any single option for Beast Master companion, on top of being significantly easier to re-summon if it dies and being more durable thanks to having more HP, a better AC than nearly all available animal companions, and immunity to an elemental damage type of your choice. Beast Master is just a very badly constructed subclass.
The point is some playstyles/ builds are bonus action heavy having a beast order option that is an action instead allows mixing such builds with ranger.
Having both an option for bonus action or a regular action is versatile. And versatility is core to ranger.
Especially if your ranger is a bonus action healer.(Which is one obvious solution to the "death problem")
Sorry, but the fact that the Beast Master has to use an action rather than a bonus action to command their critter, unlike the Drakewarden or Battle Smith, is a huge penalty for a class with Extra Attack. And the drake has better abilities than any single option for Beast Master companion, on top of being significantly easier to re-summon if it dies and being more durable thanks to having more HP, a better AC than nearly all available animal companions, and immunity to an elemental damage type of your choice. Beast Master is just a very badly constructed subclass.
extra attack works with it, they even get two attacks for the beast and one for the ranger at level 11. the drake has less variation in traits, and is awful as a spy/scout. also a drake is a drake, not a beast, and is partially magical, so it is more prone to anti-magic and anti-dragon weaponry/abilities/traps. and like others pointed out, the fact that there is heavy power creep doesn’t mean the rest is poorly constructed
Oh wow! I didn't think about the anti magic element! Very true!
Sorry, but the fact that the Beast Master has to use an action rather than a bonus action to command their critter, unlike the Drakewarden or Battle Smith, is a huge penalty for a class with Extra Attack. And the drake has better abilities than any single option for Beast Master companion, on top of being significantly easier to re-summon if it dies and being more durable thanks to having more HP, a better AC than nearly all available animal companions, and immunity to an elemental damage type of your choice. Beast Master is just a very badly constructed subclass.
extra attack works with it, they even get two attacks for the beast and one for the ranger at level 11. the drake has less variation in traits, and is awful as a spy/scout. also a drake is a drake, not a beast, and is partially magical, so it is more prone to anti-magic and anti-dragon weaponry/abilities/traps. and like others pointed out, the fact that there is heavy power creep doesn’t mean the rest is poorly constructed
Oh wow! I didn't think about the anti magic element! Very true!
that is why I prefer phb, because the ranger that uses almost no magic is cool thematically and can walk straight through death traps.
I will also add that, while the drake does add a little more damage output than a PHB beast master over a day of combat, it does disappear instantly when brought to zero hit points, it has zero skills or senses making it completely useless for anything other than 80% combat/20% movement (later), it can only attack with your bonus action (it does add a little extra damage using its reaction, but then it can't bite as an OP), and perhaps most of all important is that it and the ranger do NOT share a turn! Only either beast master shares their turn with the companion. The drake, the steel defender, a found steed (note that I read find steed as not being an attacking animal, mount only, just as it says), the druid for thing, whatever, all of those take the turn after the PC. That is a huge disadvantage.
there is a lot of people getting mad at me, im going to let my friend play a ranger and report back to you guys. after if i enjoy his shennanigains (probably spelled that wrong) i will play a ranger
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Hello dearest adventurers! I am the Confused Introvert, i dont know too much about D&D, but im the king of oddly specific and almost useless homebrew cantraps/low level spells, and am currently working on a setting called "Illogical Wizardry" where all of my useless and somewhat absurd spells are implemented to replace the good and known ones (mage hand, fireball, vicious mockery, etc)
there is a lot of people getting mad at me, im going to let my friend play a ranger and report back to you guys. after if i enjoy his shennanigains (probably spelled that wrong) i will play a ranger
I can assure you that none of us are mad at you. If any of us are coming across that way, myself included, I greatly apologize.
The general tone might be coming across as defensive or aggressive as a reaction to the title of the thread, "ranger is possibly the worst class in this entire game".
there is a lot of people getting mad at me, im going to let my friend play a ranger and report back to you guys. after if i enjoy his shennanigains (probably spelled that wrong) i will play a ranger
like FRGG said, none of us are mad at you, a little surprised about the part with banning rangers, but we just want to show what the ranger can do
I agree with "few ranger defenders are mad at people do not like playing rangers and dm's that have a hard time with the class design."
I can even appreciate a dm who politely ask me to meet them half-way and come to a specific table with play restrictions. If someone isn't ready for phb ranger at their table there should be other options that fit.
However, I do not like people treating it as bad or who refuse to acknowledge its place in the game.
IMO. Phb Ranger play is the most interesting martial class to me because it allows creativity and synergies (usually limited to full casters.) It's skills are strong when used well and weak when you're not prepared. It's actually more balanced as a universal adventurer than a lot of other classes.
Still scout rogue should be valid, or a fighter with nature choices or even a fighter drud mc as a theme alternative.....As long as the unique ranger traits aren't undermined for thier value.
As for ranger specific boons, Travel speed can be important, "free activities" during travel should have their value. 2x foraging can be sold or used as base crafting ingredients. Pet unique traits should be respected (especially harvesting). The fact that primal awareness beats even non-detection or can use triangulation for general directions should not be discounted. Or that HIPS beats truesight and works with every rest.
Players should have options to Invest in what makes them happy and Some things only phb ranger can provide.
Literally the best class ever. I'll put my Gloom Stalker Ranger up against any Paladin you want. You will spend your combat trying to catch me to hit me, dealing with entangle and Spike growth just to move while I hit you with arrows. 1st round you will most likely lose half or more of your hit points.
The age old Discord dnd server argument.
Oh, your oath of whatever paladin wants to fight my squishy gloom stalker?
A paladin has to find, keep up with, be aware of, not be surprised by, keep pace with, and stay right next to a ranger in order to beat them in a fight. And if they don't get the win round one, it's over for them.
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Literally the best class ever. I'll put my Gloom Stalker Ranger up against any Paladin you want. You will spend your combat trying to catch me to hit me, dealing with entangle and Spike growth just to move while I hit you with arrows. 1st round you will most likely lose half or more of your hit points.
The beast can act as a valid ally to trigger the rogue's sneak attack feature.
If the table is using the optional flanking rule in the DMG, the beast can (again with zero action economy used by the ranger) set it up for the melee PCs.
If there is any melee PCs while the ranger has an open bonus action (perhaps the hunter's mark target is not dead yet or the ranger is concentrating on something like conjure animals) then starting at level 7 the ranger can grant advantage to the next attack against them, specifically helping a PC with a big single attack, like a rogue, barbarian, or paladin. This is even more impactful at tables that use feats and a PC has one of the "power attack" feats.
If the ranger is not using or is at a table that doesn't use feats, then many of the better beast options deal better damage than a single ranger longbow attack. Even if it is the same or slightly less damage, many times the beast's rider ability is better than a couple more points of damage. Sometimes the beat's rider ability is still worth even if the ranger has a "power attack" feat, like a knock prone effect or a grapple/restrain effect.
The beast acts on it's own when separated from the ranger or the ranger is out of commission, so if the ranger is knock unconscious or some other effect renders them "out of the fight" for a bit, the ranger player still has something to do. If the party happens to split up the beast can go with one group, perhaps the group with terrible passive perceptions, while the ranger goes with the other.
If a dm can use a beast to intresting effect, so can a ranger.
The best part of having a creature instead of a generic stat block is its specific traits. Every creature has something. Blindsight, keen senses poison, unique movement (burrow, or flyby as noteworthy example), refresh abilities etc.
Thanks to the flexible framework of the base ranger it's easy to setup an advantageous senario to work with your beast ( spells like fog cloud and beast sense, equipment options like nets or basically swaping to any weapon style appropriate to the senario).
When the phb came out there were only 2 options for blindsight at level 3. (Ranger or druid) this can be both a defensive and offensive boost in darkness or fog (Real or magical)
Even an ox or a mule could be useful as "grapple and drag" options for spikegrowth.
Even a random bug would be a damage boost and has some benefits (see franks posts #18 and #20 with some examples of cr 0 use options) and you don't even need to feel bad killing them off as they already have Short lifspans.(note: stirge is listed as existing in almost every environment even avernus so i think of it like a mosquitoe)
Even post tasha's, the odd phb action economy can be leverageable because your bonus action is still free.one example, you could order a companion to attack, attack yourself and use summon spell bonus action at the same time. spreading or focusing damage across the whole field can really make the ranger a tactical control leader.
Yep yep yep!
The double Help actions on each turn can be really fun and potent, especially when doing a "not all combat combat", like a skill challenge. Also great for grappling strategies.
The net. I always forget the net. The beast master, as far as I know, is the only subclass that can use a new and make an attack on the same turn.
Small beast master rangers also get a free, just like a rogue, bonus action disengage or dash, in addition to increased movement and expanded movement type(s) when using a medium beast as a mount.
I just played a session with a group of friends, we don’t optimize, but we found a very funny use for the companion(a falcon with hawk stats), he seduced one bandit(critically), two drow and three boars. we laughed instead of played half the session, because we imagined someone in love with a bird.
Sorry, but the fact that the Beast Master has to use an action rather than a bonus action to command their critter, unlike the Drakewarden or Battle Smith, is a huge penalty for a class with Extra Attack. And the drake has better abilities than any single option for Beast Master companion, on top of being significantly easier to re-summon if it dies and being more durable thanks to having more HP, a better AC than nearly all available animal companions, and immunity to an elemental damage type of your choice. Beast Master is just a very badly constructed subclass.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
My friend, why are you bringing the Battle Smith into this conversation? Because it gets a robot dog? The Battle Smith in no way, shape, or form, compares or competes with the ranger class. They are completely different.
The Drake Warden is power creep from an optional book. Most tables I am a player at, and all tables I am the DM at, don't allow this, many, and certainly not all optional expansion books. That is on par with saying all other clerics are terrible because the twilight cleric is so strong. Note: The drake vanishes when it gets to zero hit points, as opposed to the beast companions (either version) that don't specifically.
The PHB beast master used action economy in an advanced way, namely the reaction. It also uses attack riders, positioning, movement types, and tactics in a way that nothing else in the handbook can compare to. The same goes for most other subclasses from WotC option expansion books. The drake warden gives extra damage, just like the gloomstalker does, because that is what people cried for. But that is mostly it. The PHB beast master gives a damage boost, not zero like you imply, alongside several other strategic and tactical benefits. These benefits are not as easy to see, comprehend, or use as just...more damage...but it is there, and strong.
extra attack works with it, they even get two attacks for the beast and one for the ranger at level 11. the drake has less variation in traits, and is awful as a spy/scout. also a drake is a drake, not a beast, and is partially magical, so it is more prone to anti-magic and anti-dragon weaponry/abilities/traps. and like others pointed out, the fact that there is heavy power creep doesn’t mean the rest is poorly constructed
The point is some playstyles/ builds are bonus action heavy having a beast order option that is an action instead allows mixing such builds with ranger.
Having both an option for bonus action or a regular action is versatile. And versatility is core to ranger.
Especially if your ranger is a bonus action healer.(Which is one obvious solution to the "death problem")
Oh wow! I didn't think about the anti magic element! Very true!
that is why I prefer phb, because the ranger that uses almost no magic is cool thematically and can walk straight through death traps.
I will also add that, while the drake does add a little more damage output than a PHB beast master over a day of combat, it does disappear instantly when brought to zero hit points, it has zero skills or senses making it completely useless for anything other than 80% combat/20% movement (later), it can only attack with your bonus action (it does add a little extra damage using its reaction, but then it can't bite as an OP), and perhaps most of all important is that it and the ranger do NOT share a turn! Only either beast master shares their turn with the companion. The drake, the steel defender, a found steed (note that I read find steed as not being an attacking animal, mount only, just as it says), the druid for thing, whatever, all of those take the turn after the PC. That is a huge disadvantage.
there is a lot of people getting mad at me, im going to let my friend play a ranger and report back to you guys. after if i enjoy his shennanigains (probably spelled that wrong) i will play a ranger
Hello dearest adventurers! I am the Confused Introvert, i dont know too much about D&D, but im the king of oddly specific and almost useless homebrew cantraps/low level spells, and am currently working on a setting called "Illogical Wizardry" where all of my useless and somewhat absurd spells are implemented to replace the good and known ones (mage hand, fireball, vicious mockery, etc)
I can assure you that none of us are mad at you. If any of us are coming across that way, myself included, I greatly apologize.
The general tone might be coming across as defensive or aggressive as a reaction to the title of the thread, "ranger is possibly the worst class in this entire game".
like FRGG said, none of us are mad at you, a little surprised about the part with banning rangers, but we just want to show what the ranger can do
I agree with "few ranger defenders are mad at people do not like playing rangers and dm's that have a hard time with the class design."
I can even appreciate a dm who politely ask me to meet them half-way and come to a specific table with play restrictions. If someone isn't ready for phb ranger at their table there should be other options that fit.
However, I do not like people treating it as bad or who refuse to acknowledge its place in the game.
IMO. Phb Ranger play is the most interesting martial class to me because it allows creativity and synergies (usually limited to full casters.) It's skills are strong when used well and weak when you're not prepared. It's actually more balanced as a universal adventurer than a lot of other classes.
Still scout rogue should be valid, or a fighter with nature choices or even a fighter drud mc as a theme alternative.....As long as the unique ranger traits aren't undermined for thier value.
As for ranger specific boons, Travel speed can be important, "free activities" during travel should have their value. 2x foraging can be sold or used as base crafting ingredients. Pet unique traits should be respected (especially harvesting). The fact that primal awareness beats even non-detection or can use triangulation for general directions should not be discounted. Or that HIPS beats truesight and works with every rest.
Players should have options to Invest in what makes them happy and Some things only phb ranger can provide.
Rangers are fine, and any DM that tries to ban an entire class because they do not like them is a DM who's table i would never play at.
The age old Discord dnd server argument.
Oh, your oath of whatever paladin wants to fight my squishy gloom stalker?
Good luck.
2014 5E mostly
3.5 maybe.
personally I think gloomstalker is overrated, it is powerful but it requires a higly selfish and dangerous playstyle to get full power
A paladin has to find, keep up with, be aware of, not be surprised by, keep pace with, and stay right next to a ranger in order to beat them in a fight. And if they don't get the win round one, it's over for them.