I'm sure I'm not the only to voice this opinion, but seems like there is only a sea of negative around all this. I understand the frustration from people when the leak of the "new" OGL was announced. The masses voiced there concern and even bravely although in a limited scope spoke out with there wallets. Good on all of you. WotC as of now have taken back a not to popular amendment to the bi-laws of there property. So why is there still a massive out pour of rage? I get not being 100% trusting of the company. It would be naive to be so. But why are we all so quick to now throw the baby out with the bath water, so to speak? They seem to have repented as of now. It even seemed some what legitimate in my estimation. Is it possible they were acting out of ignorance? Is it possible they didn't now how deeply this game reached out to all of us? Maybe I'm being naive, I am willing to look at this situation with that lense. I just hate to see an unbridled rage from a mass of people aimed at a group we previously loved, because a mistake they made and almost immediately took back... That's all. I'm willing to hope and I'm willing to have faith that we can once again sit a the proverbial table and roll some dice.
Because their official release is a complete lie. Noone leaked a draft. They risked their entire livelihoods to expose the CONTRACTS sent with NON DISCLOSURE AGREEMENTS sent to them with a 7day turnaround trying to strongarm them into signing the new OGL. You do not send out contracts and NDA's for a draft. This entire new release is evil and there's at least a half dozen blatant lies in it. All broken down by lawyer's and others with inside WOTC sources.
Because their official release is a complete lie. Noone leaked a draft. They risked their entire livelihoods to expose the CONTRACTS sent with NON DISCLOSURE AGREEMENTS sent to them with a 7day turnaround trying to strongarm them into signing the new OGL. You do not send out contracts and NDA's for a draft. This entire new release is evil and there's at least a half dozen blatant lies in it. All broken down by lawyer's and others with inside WOTC sources.
This is very true. The head of gaming at Kickstarter said they were already in agreement talks for enforcement with Wizards. This wasn't a draft this was a secret deal that was being done behind everyone's backs and we were all going to find out way too late to do anything about it. Thanks to who ever leaked that Wizards has to now answer for it, but this isn't a draft and Wizards isn't as innocent as their update makes them seem. Honestly I'm much more upset about all this after reading the update than I ever was prior.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"You canceled your subscription on 01/14/2023."
(1) Our job is to be good stewards of the game: Wrong. We are the stewards of the game. You print books.
(2) the OGL exists for the benefit of the fans: Wrong. The OGL exists to benefit Wizards. 3rd party Creators have made your game what it is today.
They seem to have repented as of now. It even seemed some what legitimate in my estimation. Is it possible they were acting out of ignorance? Is it possible they didn't now how deeply this game reached out to all of us?
They really haven't repented at all though. Their statements are a blatant attempt to gaslight us about the situation starting from the first sentence. Their alleged goals with this OGL are all 100% covered by the existing one. OGL 1.1 was not a draft, you don't try to force content creators to sign a legally binding "draft." This was a bold attempt to tax and steal from creators within the community, plain and simple.
Is it possible that a billion dollar mega corporation with access to the best lawyers in the business tried to bully individual creators into signing away their profits and IPs out of ignorance? I highly doubt it. It was very calculated. They made a whole new licence 15× larger than the existing one, and sent NDAs and a contract with a 1 week time limit to creators. They tried to do a smash and grab and got caught.
Every term proposed is unreasonable, and they literally lied about the whole process and continue to talk with an antagonistic tone.
The only acceptable solution is to keep OGL 1.0a AS IS. We cannot accept any new OGL, no matter what changes. Wizards is lying by saying they are trying to protect themselves.
Wizards of the Coast Passed $1 Billion in Revenue in 2021
They can protect themselves already. You know who can't protect themselves? 3rd party creators that Wizards is conspiring to rob of their IP and money.
"They seem to have repented as of now. It even seemed some what legitimate in my estimation."
The most recent comment - aside from being filled with blinding arrogance and mistruths, as others have said - doesn't even mention two key parts of the 1.1 leak: the "you need to report your earnings if you earn over 50k" and "you agree to any changes we might make to this license in the future".
If that second point is still present in any version of the contract, Hasbro can just return everything else - the royalties, the taking of ideas, etc. - in in six months, when the heat has died down a bit. If the first is still there, they have the information needed to pursue anyone who has earned sufficient money. And if they don't intend to do this, to collect money, there's no reason for there to be any reporting in the OGL.
So, while you say they've repented, their most recent action is to lie to our faces about what has just happened, and promise to undo some of the problems... but if that "you agree to any future changes" bit is still there - and, mark my words, it will be - then the assumption has to be that they intend to do all this again in the future.
You're entitled to draw your own conclusions, but this isn't what I'd call legitimate.
If it really was a draft, and they're goals with it were as noble as they tried to make it seem, and they intended to get community feedback they would have been far quicker with a response since all it would've taken was the truth, which might've taken a few days to write in exactly the way they wanted but not a week.
I also honestly don't think they intended to change their mind at all, they were scheduled to speak about it sooner, but then people started cancelling their dndbeyond subscriptions and I think that's when they finally decided to scramble to create a response.
Is it possible they were acting out of ignorance? Is it possible they didn't now how deeply this game reached out to all of us?
Even if this was all it was, that's still not good enough. They should understand their product and respect the community's importance in making D&D what it is. Instead according to leaks they just see their customers as a barrier to their money. That's not the kind of company I want to support when their are so many other options.
"A couple of last thoughts. First, we won’t be able to release the new OGL today, because we need to make sure we get it right, but it is coming. Second, you’re going to hear people say that they won, and we lost because making your voices heard forced us to change our plans. Those people will only be half right. They won—and so did we."
This. This is the kind of talk you hear from someone who wants to pretend that they were on your side all along after you caught them standing behind you with a knife in their hands. "Hey, this guy's going to tell you that we were standing behind him with a knife, but we totally weren't, we just held it the wrong way." As we turned and saw him raising the damn thing over our heads. Y'know, a few years back, I bought the 5e rulebook hardcover version. It's not much, but it's something. I thought, 'hey, I should support them, I should have this book if I'm going to play their game.' It's standing on the floor leaning against my desk right now. And it'll stay there of course. But Wizards - go **** yourselves. You aren't going to get another red cent from me.
If you consider this a genuine apology, I have a beachfront ski resort in Pheonix for sale...
Hasbro is used to dealing with children, collectors, and competitive gamers. Dungeons & Dragons players are a different breed altogether. Working together to achieve the nigh impossible is what we do in our spare time. Slaying dragons and vanquishing evil dictators is something we enjoy. Covering each other's tails is a part of every good adventuring party. We don't compete against each other. We work together.
Wizards broke a promise and tried to revoke an agreement that even included the word irrevocable. Then they offered us a line of condescending BS telling us that we were too stupid to understand what they really meant and expected us to take that as a compliment. It truly pains me that they can't see the millions of dollars going to their "competitors" are actually millions of dollars of free advertising for them.
Or... they actually did repent and took a second look at the agreement. The outcome remains to be seen, and up to the point when we will actually see what they intend to put forward, all is speculation.
The fact that WotC makes money doesn't mean that they are in the business of giving away their intellectual property. They still are the stewards of the core of the game, we add content based on that core.
I, for one, will continue to play the game and enjoy adding my content as well as using content from others (including WotC)
They already gave the stuff covered in the original OGL away. That license may not have the magic law word "irrevokable" in it, but that particular precedent hadn't been established at the time it was written, and there is a whole paragraph establishing that even if another later license comes out, we can STILL use that one.
There's a term for trying to take back something you already gave away, though it's rather racist. So, Instead I'll call them "colonialist givers".
Or... they actually did repent and took a second look at the agreement. The outcome remains to be seen, and up to the point when we will actually see what they intend to put forward, all is speculation.
The fact that WotC makes money doesn't mean that they are in the business of giving away their intellectual property. They still are the stewards of the core of the game, we add content based on that core.
I, for one, will continue to play the game and enjoy adding my content as well as using content from others (including WotC)
We can hope, but they are lying and gaslighting about what happened. That isn't an apology.
The OGL 1.1 wasn't about protecting their IP, it was about taking other people's IP. Very different.
By all means keep playing the game, I intend to. The point of a boycott isn't that we never go back to what we boycott, just that we don't until they correct their mistake (a lot of people say they are fully jumping ship and I think that misses the point). Once WotC stops attacking the community (they clearly haven't stood down yet), we should go back to normal. Carrot and stick and all that.
To me, the damage has been done. No amount of gaslighting or backpedaling will be forgiven. WOTC/hasbro tried to get away with some diabolical move and got called out for it.
I will continue to play D&D 5E, but I will never purchase anything from WOTC or Hasbro ever again. I will not be renewing my Master Tier subscription (on my 3rd year, there won't be a fourth) and have already saved my Legendary Bundle to pdf files for print and binding at home. One D&D is dead in the water, not even going to taken under consideration.
WOTC: Y'all f*cked up and lost me as a customer for life, and I've been playing D&D since it was still owned by TSR.
Personally, I'm looking forward to Project Black Flag and the other game systems that are bound to spring up due to the mass exodus of 3rd party publishers.
First off all thanks for the responses. I am truly trying to find my way through all this and by no means believe I have the answers. I said it is possible I'm being naive with this situation. So sure I'll take the time share if still offered ;-). I do believe however there is a lot of jumping to the extreme negative to quickly. They are a business and it is there right to attempt to go down a path with the business however they see fit. It is also a bit obvious that the original ogl was written with no forsite on the future of the game being exclusivly online. Prior to the last 5 years maybe less, the game was incredibly personal, probably why there is such a large and loyal following. But i do not think we should be shocked and outraged to this extent that they are trying to find a path to gather money that has previously been left on the table. Again I fully understand it is t popular, but it is a buisness. Thank you all for the comments thus far look forward to more.
Plenty of D&D computer games were already out in the year the OGL was drafted and the internet was already a worldwide phenomenon with entries into online play services for games getting their roots into things already. They knew what they were doing. Heck, you can ask the people who drafted it. They expected this, even if the exact forms of how it was digitally done weren't established yet.
Watch this. The man chiefly responsible for the OGL makes it crystal clear he intended for it to apply without restriction to any implementation someone came up with. Also, that cosplay note? Whoever thought to print the OGL on their frickin' costume to license it?
I'm sure I'm not the only to voice this opinion, but seems like there is only a sea of negative around all this. I understand the frustration from people when the leak of the "new" OGL was announced. The masses voiced there concern and even bravely although in a limited scope spoke out with there wallets. Good on all of you. WotC as of now have taken back a not to popular amendment to the bi-laws of there property. So why is there still a massive out pour of rage? I get not being 100% trusting of the company. It would be naive to be so. But why are we all so quick to now throw the baby out with the bath water, so to speak? They seem to have repented as of now. It even seemed some what legitimate in my estimation. Is it possible they were acting out of ignorance? Is it possible they didn't now how deeply this game reached out to all of us? Maybe I'm being naive, I am willing to look at this situation with that lense. I just hate to see an unbridled rage from a mass of people aimed at a group we previously loved, because a mistake they made and almost immediately took back... That's all. I'm willing to hope and I'm willing to have faith that we can once again sit a the proverbial table and roll some dice.
Because their official release is a complete lie. Noone leaked a draft. They risked their entire livelihoods to expose the CONTRACTS sent with NON DISCLOSURE AGREEMENTS sent to them with a 7day turnaround trying to strongarm them into signing the new OGL. You do not send out contracts and NDA's for a draft. This entire new release is evil and there's at least a half dozen blatant lies in it. All broken down by lawyer's and others with inside WOTC sources.
https://youtu.be/MeWaq6pQQW4
Is a great breakdown of the release.
This is very true. The head of gaming at Kickstarter said they were already in agreement talks for enforcement with Wizards. This wasn't a draft this was a secret deal that was being done behind everyone's backs and we were all going to find out way too late to do anything about it. Thanks to who ever leaked that Wizards has to now answer for it, but this isn't a draft and Wizards isn't as innocent as their update makes them seem. Honestly I'm much more upset about all this after reading the update than I ever was prior.
"You canceled your subscription on 01/14/2023."
(1) Our job is to be good stewards of the game: Wrong. We are the stewards of the game. You print books.
(2) the OGL exists for the benefit of the fans: Wrong. The OGL exists to benefit Wizards. 3rd party Creators have made your game what it is today.
They really haven't repented at all though. Their statements are a blatant attempt to gaslight us about the situation starting from the first sentence. Their alleged goals with this OGL are all 100% covered by the existing one. OGL 1.1 was not a draft, you don't try to force content creators to sign a legally binding "draft." This was a bold attempt to tax and steal from creators within the community, plain and simple.
Is it possible that a billion dollar mega corporation with access to the best lawyers in the business tried to bully individual creators into signing away their profits and IPs out of ignorance? I highly doubt it. It was very calculated. They made a whole new licence 15× larger than the existing one, and sent NDAs and a contract with a 1 week time limit to creators. They tried to do a smash and grab and got caught.
Every term proposed is unreasonable, and they literally lied about the whole process and continue to talk with an antagonistic tone.
The only acceptable solution is to keep OGL 1.0a AS IS. We cannot accept any new OGL, no matter what changes. Wizards is lying by saying they are trying to protect themselves.
Wizards of the Coast Passed $1 Billion in Revenue in 2021
They can protect themselves already. You know who can't protect themselves? 3rd party creators that Wizards is conspiring to rob of their IP and money.
"You canceled your subscription on 01/14/2023."
(1) Our job is to be good stewards of the game: Wrong. We are the stewards of the game. You print books.
(2) the OGL exists for the benefit of the fans: Wrong. The OGL exists to benefit Wizards. 3rd party Creators have made your game what it is today.
"They seem to have repented as of now. It even seemed some what legitimate in my estimation."
The most recent comment - aside from being filled with blinding arrogance and mistruths, as others have said - doesn't even mention two key parts of the 1.1 leak: the "you need to report your earnings if you earn over 50k" and "you agree to any changes we might make to this license in the future".
If that second point is still present in any version of the contract, Hasbro can just return everything else - the royalties, the taking of ideas, etc. - in in six months, when the heat has died down a bit. If the first is still there, they have the information needed to pursue anyone who has earned sufficient money. And if they don't intend to do this, to collect money, there's no reason for there to be any reporting in the OGL.
So, while you say they've repented, their most recent action is to lie to our faces about what has just happened, and promise to undo some of the problems... but if that "you agree to any future changes" bit is still there - and, mark my words, it will be - then the assumption has to be that they intend to do all this again in the future.
You're entitled to draw your own conclusions, but this isn't what I'd call legitimate.
Its really too little too late.
If it really was a draft, and they're goals with it were as noble as they tried to make it seem, and they intended to get community feedback they would have been far quicker with a response since all it would've taken was the truth, which might've taken a few days to write in exactly the way they wanted but not a week.
I also honestly don't think they intended to change their mind at all, they were scheduled to speak about it sooner, but then people started cancelling their dndbeyond subscriptions and I think that's when they finally decided to scramble to create a response.
Even if this was all it was, that's still not good enough. They should understand their product and respect the community's importance in making D&D what it is. Instead according to leaks they just see their customers as a barrier to their money. That's not the kind of company I want to support when their are so many other options.
And the icing on the cake.
"A couple of last thoughts. First, we won’t be able to release the new OGL today, because we need to make sure we get it right, but it is coming. Second, you’re going to hear people say that they won, and we lost because making your voices heard forced us to change our plans. Those people will only be half right. They won—and so did we."
This. This is the kind of talk you hear from someone who wants to pretend that they were on your side all along after you caught them standing behind you with a knife in their hands. "Hey, this guy's going to tell you that we were standing behind him with a knife, but we totally weren't, we just held it the wrong way." As we turned and saw him raising the damn thing over our heads. Y'know, a few years back, I bought the 5e rulebook hardcover version. It's not much, but it's something. I thought, 'hey, I should support them, I should have this book if I'm going to play their game.' It's standing on the floor leaning against my desk right now. And it'll stay there of course. But Wizards - go **** yourselves. You aren't going to get another red cent from me.
If you consider this a genuine apology, I have a beachfront ski resort in Pheonix for sale...
Hasbro is used to dealing with children, collectors, and competitive gamers. Dungeons & Dragons players are a different breed altogether. Working together to achieve the nigh impossible is what we do in our spare time. Slaying dragons and vanquishing evil dictators is something we enjoy. Covering each other's tails is a part of every good adventuring party. We don't compete against each other. We work together.
Wizards broke a promise and tried to revoke an agreement that even included the word irrevocable. Then they offered us a line of condescending BS telling us that we were too stupid to understand what they really meant and expected us to take that as a compliment. It truly pains me that they can't see the millions of dollars going to their "competitors" are actually millions of dollars of free advertising for them.
Or... they actually did repent and took a second look at the agreement. The outcome remains to be seen, and up to the point when we will actually see what they intend to put forward, all is speculation.
The fact that WotC makes money doesn't mean that they are in the business of giving away their intellectual property. They still are the stewards of the core of the game, we add content based on that core.
I, for one, will continue to play the game and enjoy adding my content as well as using content from others (including WotC)
They already gave the stuff covered in the original OGL away. That license may not have the magic law word "irrevokable" in it, but that particular precedent hadn't been established at the time it was written, and there is a whole paragraph establishing that even if another later license comes out, we can STILL use that one.
There's a term for trying to take back something you already gave away, though it's rather racist. So, Instead I'll call them "colonialist givers".
We can hope, but they are lying and gaslighting about what happened. That isn't an apology.
The OGL 1.1 wasn't about protecting their IP, it was about taking other people's IP. Very different.
By all means keep playing the game, I intend to. The point of a boycott isn't that we never go back to what we boycott, just that we don't until they correct their mistake (a lot of people say they are fully jumping ship and I think that misses the point). Once WotC stops attacking the community (they clearly haven't stood down yet), we should go back to normal. Carrot and stick and all that.
To me, the damage has been done. No amount of gaslighting or backpedaling will be forgiven. WOTC/hasbro tried to get away with some diabolical move and got called out for it.
I will continue to play D&D 5E, but I will never purchase anything from WOTC or Hasbro ever again. I will not be renewing my Master Tier subscription (on my 3rd year, there won't be a fourth) and have already saved my Legendary Bundle to pdf files for print and binding at home. One D&D is dead in the water, not even going to taken under consideration.
WOTC: Y'all f*cked up and lost me as a customer for life, and I've been playing D&D since it was still owned by TSR.
Personally, I'm looking forward to Project Black Flag and the other game systems that are bound to spring up due to the mass exodus of 3rd party publishers.
First off all thanks for the responses. I am truly trying to find my way through all this and by no means believe I have the answers. I said it is possible I'm being naive with this situation. So sure I'll take the time share if still offered ;-). I do believe however there is a lot of jumping to the extreme negative to quickly. They are a business and it is there right to attempt to go down a path with the business however they see fit. It is also a bit obvious that the original ogl was written with no forsite on the future of the game being exclusivly online. Prior to the last 5 years maybe less, the game was incredibly personal, probably why there is such a large and loyal following. But i do not think we should be shocked and outraged to this extent that they are trying to find a path to gather money that has previously been left on the table. Again I fully understand it is t popular, but it is a buisness. Thank you all for the comments thus far look forward to more.
Plenty of D&D computer games were already out in the year the OGL was drafted and the internet was already a worldwide phenomenon with entries into online play services for games getting their roots into things already. They knew what they were doing. Heck, you can ask the people who drafted it. They expected this, even if the exact forms of how it was digitally done weren't established yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w96pWvzqRCg
Watch this. The man chiefly responsible for the OGL makes it crystal clear he intended for it to apply without restriction to any implementation someone came up with. Also, that cosplay note? Whoever thought to print the OGL on their frickin' costume to license it?