You can expect WotC will be data mining articles on social media to check for sentiment. The problem is, this is being done right before the D&D Movie is being released and right when hype for One D&D is being hyped from the new CEO Cynthia Williams. This is coming under her lead, its her big mark. I don't think she's going to backtrack on the license, this is her thing, her mark. I think its going to go through and cause brand damage. Personally though, I'm looking forward to it because we'll get a lot more support from player base for other existing games and possibly a better RPG to replace WotC from a new publisher.
You can get something special and new from chaos, and well the new OGL is one bit of chaos.
The language of the leaded license has issues that go beyond what was discussed here.
Its terms are described such that WOTC has the right to use the material you publish under that license forever and you have no recourse to stop that. It also says they can tell you to stop publishing any time they like for any reason.
So a publisher could invest $50K in creating a product, and then WOTC could say, you know, we don't like that product, you have to stop selling it now. And then they could take that product and sell it themselves.
Would they do that? It's very unlikely, but the license gives them the power to do exactly that if you sign it.
No company in their right mind is going to want to make an agreement like that has no protections for them, and all the protections in the world for WOTC.
The existing OGL is a reciprocal license that offers a fair deal for everyone, you get to use the shared text, and in return, you share much of your text. No one can get screwed and everyone in the gaming community benefits.
WOTC's 1.1, as leaked, offers very little and demands very much. In my opinion, it would be very foolish to sign on to it, which is why it also includes language to try and prohibit companies from using the older, fair license.
"I can do anything with anything without attribution, without care, without community, forever and always...."
These are sociopathic expressions imo. Not caring for the love of others, not caring for your fan base.... Do we need Lizzo or Taylor swift to take over this company?
Ok the reaaaaaly objectionable parts:
1. I can change this unfavorable imposed agreement as I wish with only 1 exception. I just have to tell you 30 days ahead of time.
2. I will tell you everything will be ok in a press release, and then buzz your hand when we shake on it. (Unexpected secret rules that are deal breakers by design)
3. I will impose a contract that allows me to legally take anything you own and claim it as my own.
4. I will reneg on my previous agreements, and impose new ones that might make me short term cash and will definitely make me the owner of your current and future ideas. By the way I will not pay you, and I will not even mention you in the credits.
5. I will lie to you about your obligations that I am just imposing. I will tell you the I will only get a cut if you make more money than the very few, but that threshold will be flexible and decided be me whenever I feel like it.
6.At any point I can anounce that this agreement never happened (as I just did) and give you 30 days to start paying 50% from the first cent you make. I can take out of the licensed stuff (SRD) anything, even if it makes things impossible.
7. I can take every IP from everyone (YouTubers included) use it as mine and name my cousin as the writer, my uncle as editor, and a third party as owner.
I own you! You are mine! All you make is mine!
This is a US company? This is a company that gives itself the potential to benefit from unpaid labor? This is a company that in the exact same document mentions racial discrimination?
(I canceled my Master subscription after 3 annual payments. If WotC makes luxurious amends, I will renew, otherwise, maybe the DNDBeyond devs can get my money in a side-gig of theirs?)
I might run one last campaign in 5e as a last hurrah, but PF2e is looking mighty tasty right now?
PF2 is really fun and surprisingly easy to play once you get over the initial hurdle.
Paizo also publishes 100% of the rules online for free (not just a super trimmed down SRD) and has programs to actively encourage third party developers rather than threatening to destroy them.
Might not be to everyone's liking, especially since it's a lot crunchier than 5e, but it's worth a look, IMO.
Yes we are responding to a leaked “draft” document , but if the leak is correct the creators have until January 13th to sign on, which is in 6 days as of this post. So this “draft” that was shared with the commercial creators that it will affect the most , probably isn’t the first and close to final.
This leak may be just testing the waters to see what people will accept. Personally, I love the game but I will not spend money on the next addition. Voting with your money is what WOTC only understands, it seems.
I don’t understand the controversy, dnd is dnd, ogl is ogl, why stress?
Because WotC is trying to revoke the ogl, which would, at a guess, wipe maybe half of the TTRPG industry off the bored, and very likely kill all of the major VTT providers.
I don’t understand the controversy, dnd is dnd, ogl is ogl, why stress?
Because WotC is trying to revoke the ogl, which would, at a guess, wipe maybe half of the TTRPG industry off the bored, and very likely kill all of the major VTT providers.
Why? According to the article, the top VTT's already have custom agreements
I don’t understand the controversy, dnd is dnd, ogl is ogl, why stress?
Because WotC is trying to revoke the ogl, which would, at a guess, wipe maybe half of the TTRPG industry off the bored, and very likely kill all of the major VTT providers.
Why? According to the article, the top VTT's already have custom agreements
There's a lot of questions about how the VTTs are supposed to figure out how much is paid out and how; Like is Roll20 obligated to pay out a percentage of their gross income (keeping in mind they host a plethora of non D&D titles), figure out what percentage of users are using D&D and subtract from that or is there some other method for determining the pay out? Also are they going to increase the costs for premium membership to offset the tax?
I don’t understand the controversy, dnd is dnd, ogl is ogl, why stress?
Because WotC is trying to revoke the ogl, which would, at a guess, wipe maybe half of the TTRPG industry off the bored, and very likely kill all of the major VTT providers.
Why? According to the article, the top VTT's already have custom agreements
That I know of, two VTT's have agreements. Most of the rest of them run off the OSR. But even those that do have agreements in place are going to suffer, because if WotC succeeds in killing the OGL 1.0a, then a huge number of the other big names in TTRPG go away. Paizo, Green Ronin, Kobold Press, Ghostfire Games. Players will lose hunrders, maybe thousands of dollars worth of bought and paid for content. And with WotC offering their own, official, VTT, the profits of the two that do have agreements will be dependent on Non-DnD games.
Of this goes through, we are going to lose:
Pathfinder Starfinder Grim Hollow Dungeons of Drakkenheim Mutants and Masterminds Old School Essentials Anything else published under ogl 1.0a
They're not trying to gut it. They're trying to own it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
The problem here is the assumption that a major corporation cares about their customers, they don't. They never did, they only care about large profits every quarter. The want to destroy or take over the competiion, as they know they can't produce products of the same quality. Spelljammer was a disaster, with bare bones rules for the systems release, dispite previous edition having systems they could have updated, Ghost of Salmarsh had awful sea combat despite it being the modules selling point and the final chapter of Icewind Dale has no maps for most of the areas the party could explore. Dungeon of the Mad Mage, has all maps in black and white, lacking any sort of detail, if you want a perfect example of how little Wizards care, look at this site, no major updates in almost a year, save for those that make money, digital dice, new books etc. You can't use all the options for Tasha's years after release, Encounter Builder is still in beta and, no ability to create custom equipment or standard items. Its already making them money, so they have no intention of working on it further until it can be intergrated with their proprietary VTT.
The final release of 5e are also lack luster, Keys From the Golden Vault will be a movie tie in, while others will have systems and lack of content similar to Spelljammer. They are already decieving the fan base with promised of the next edition being backwards compatible, despite the playtest materials proving this to untrue or at the very least extremely difficult.
If they really wanted to increase sales and profits, they could simply release books that help DM's. Books of new eqipment and magic items, which hopefull Many Things will be. More source books or books with clear rules on mechanics for down time activities, exploration and vehicles. Or books with new traps and hazards.
To those of you hoping the largest and most vocal voices in the community will help, don't hold your breath. They will do whats in their best interest, anyone would in their position, they have homes to maintain and families to provide for. To blame them for keeping silent and accepting these terms is unreasonable, they have little to no choice.
The only way to stop this is to hurt Hasbro's and Wizards of the Coast's bottom line. The only way they will listen is if their profits take a hit, until then they won't care, as for people who blame developers, it is more than likely not their call and to keep their job they have to go along with it.
First, I don't support the proposed changes, I wont be accepting the new terms of this license if this is the route they are taking (leak or not). Second, this has left a bad taste in my mouth regarding WotC and Hasbro in general and will be looking to spend the thousands of dollars I do spend on their products elsewhere in the future. I will not be subjected to grotesque monetization practices. I hope for my love of the game, they listen to the criticism and they reverse course.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"When heroes fall, legends are born." - Aeon, the Awesome
TBH I would like to see the community come together in a MAJOR way like never before... NOT to fight the new CGL 1.1, or WotC/Hasbro, but to create a BRAND NEW Fantasy TTRPG that plays like D&D, but uses NOTHING of their IP and requires NO acceptance of any OGL or SRD.
It is doable. Given all the major players out there - the big TTRPG developers, the major TTRPG web sites (like EN World), the sheer size and creativeness of the community, imagine if this giant community created a new truly open-source system that plays like D&D but isn't beholden to WotC, and we can ALL then play in that creative playground royalty-free in real perpetuity, with a truly irrevocable open gaming license.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
TBH I would like to see the community come together in a MAJOR way like never before... NOT to fight the new CGL 1.1, or WotC/Hasbro, but to create a BRAND NEW Fantasy TTRPG that plays like D&D, but uses NOTHING of their IP and requires NO acceptance of any OGL or SRD.
It is doable. Given all the major players out there - the big TTRPG developers, the major TTRPG web sites (like EN World), the sheer size and creativeness of the community, imagine if this giant community created a new truly open-source system that plays like D&D but isn't beholden to WotC, and we can ALL then play in that creative playground royalty-free in real perpetuity, with a truly irrevocable open gaming license.
As much as I love this idea, there's no way the community will agree on a direction for it. I'd love to tinker with some rules/game mechanics tho.
I will not financially support Wizards of the Coast if they attempt to revoke any previous OGL. #opendnd
Dude, it's speculation. Calm tf down lol
Yes it's bad, but from what I understand, WotC is literally unable to revoke the previous OGL.
It's not speculation. The ogl 1.1 that was sent out, attached to executable contracts just before Christmas, has leaked on line. If anything, it's actually worse than people are making it out to be. WotC may not be able to legally revoke the previous ogl, but what they can do is backrupt every single company that makes ogl products while they try and tie the matter up in court for years.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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You can expect WotC will be data mining articles on social media to check for sentiment. The problem is, this is being done right before the D&D Movie is being released and right when hype for One D&D is being hyped from the new CEO Cynthia Williams. This is coming under her lead, its her big mark. I don't think she's going to backtrack on the license, this is her thing, her mark. I think its going to go through and cause brand damage. Personally though, I'm looking forward to it because we'll get a lot more support from player base for other existing games and possibly a better RPG to replace WotC from a new publisher.
You can get something special and new from chaos, and well the new OGL is one bit of chaos.
For some perspective
The language of the leaded license has issues that go beyond what was discussed here.
Its terms are described such that WOTC has the right to use the material you publish under that license forever and you have no recourse to stop that.
It also says they can tell you to stop publishing any time they like for any reason.
So a publisher could invest $50K in creating a product, and then WOTC could say, you know, we don't like that product, you have to stop selling it now. And then they could take that product and sell it themselves.
Would they do that? It's very unlikely, but the license gives them the power to do exactly that if you sign it.
No company in their right mind is going to want to make an agreement like that has no protections for them, and all the protections in the world for WOTC.
The existing OGL is a reciprocal license that offers a fair deal for everyone, you get to use the shared text, and in return, you share much of your text. No one can get screwed and everyone in the gaming community benefits.
WOTC's 1.1, as leaked, offers very little and demands very much. In my opinion, it would be very foolish to sign on to it, which is why it also includes language to try and prohibit companies from using the older, fair license.
I am dumbfounded.
"I can do anything with anything without attribution, without care, without community, forever and always...."
These are sociopathic expressions imo. Not caring for the love of others, not caring for your fan base.... Do we need Lizzo or Taylor swift to take over this company?
Ok the reaaaaaly objectionable parts:
1. I can change this unfavorable imposed agreement as I wish with only 1 exception. I just have to tell you 30 days ahead of time.
2. I will tell you everything will be ok in a press release, and then buzz your hand when we shake on it. (Unexpected secret rules that are deal breakers by design)
3. I will impose a contract that allows me to legally take anything you own and claim it as my own.
4. I will reneg on my previous agreements, and impose new ones that might make me short term cash and will definitely make me the owner of your current and future ideas. By the way I will not pay you, and I will not even mention you in the credits.
5. I will lie to you about your obligations that I am just imposing. I will tell you the I will only get a cut if you make more money than the very few, but that threshold will be flexible and decided be me whenever I feel like it.
6.At any point I can anounce that this agreement never happened (as I just did) and give you 30 days to start paying 50% from the first cent you make. I can take out of the licensed stuff (SRD) anything, even if it makes things impossible.
7. I can take every IP from everyone (YouTubers included) use it as mine and name my cousin as the writer, my uncle as editor, and a third party as owner.
I own you! You are mine! All you make is mine!
This is a US company? This is a company that gives itself the potential to benefit from unpaid labor? This is a company that in the exact same document mentions racial discrimination?
I am not dumbfounded, I am appalled!
Take a look at my homebrew world https://dnd-world.com
I am a Career Coach, with a passion for RPG! Up to supporting new ventures or renewal/rebranding, and I am setting up a free group coaching thing, open for all here.
(I canceled my Master subscription after 3 annual payments. If WotC makes luxurious amends, I will renew, otherwise, maybe the DNDBeyond devs can get my money in a side-gig of theirs?)
PF2 is really fun and surprisingly easy to play once you get over the initial hurdle.
Paizo also publishes 100% of the rules online for free (not just a super trimmed down SRD) and has programs to actively encourage third party developers rather than threatening to destroy them.
Might not be to everyone's liking, especially since it's a lot crunchier than 5e, but it's worth a look, IMO.
Yes we are responding to a leaked “draft” document , but if the leak is correct the creators have until January 13th to sign on, which is in 6 days as of this post. So this “draft” that was shared with the commercial creators that it will affect the most , probably isn’t the first and close to final.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
This leak may be just testing the waters to see what people will accept. Personally, I love the game but I will not spend money on the next addition. Voting with your money is what WOTC only understands, it seems.
I don’t understand the controversy, dnd is dnd, ogl is ogl, why stress?
I uses to be dndlover_2.
Because WotC is trying to revoke the ogl, which would, at a guess, wipe maybe half of the TTRPG industry off the bored, and very likely kill all of the major VTT providers.
Why? According to the article, the top VTT's already have custom agreements
There's a lot of questions about how the VTTs are supposed to figure out how much is paid out and how; Like is Roll20 obligated to pay out a percentage of their gross income (keeping in mind they host a plethora of non D&D titles), figure out what percentage of users are using D&D and subtract from that or is there some other method for determining the pay out? Also are they going to increase the costs for premium membership to offset the tax?
Like, none of this is good for the hobby.
That I know of, two VTT's have agreements. Most of the rest of them run off the OSR. But even those that do have agreements in place are going to suffer, because if WotC succeeds in killing the OGL 1.0a, then a huge number of the other big names in TTRPG go away. Paizo, Green Ronin, Kobold Press, Ghostfire Games. Players will lose hunrders, maybe thousands of dollars worth of bought and paid for content. And with WotC offering their own, official, VTT, the profits of the two that do have agreements will be dependent on Non-DnD games.
Of this goes through, we are going to lose:
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Grim Hollow
Dungeons of Drakkenheim
Mutants and Masterminds
Old School Essentials
Anything else published under ogl 1.0a
WotC is trying to gut the TTRPG industry.
They're not trying to gut it. They're trying to own it.
Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
#OpenDnD
DDB is great, but it could be better. Here are some things I think could improve DDB
The problem here is the assumption that a major corporation cares about their customers, they don't. They never did, they only care about large profits every quarter. The want to destroy or take over the competiion, as they know they can't produce products of the same quality. Spelljammer was a disaster, with bare bones rules for the systems release, dispite previous edition having systems they could have updated, Ghost of Salmarsh had awful sea combat despite it being the modules selling point and the final chapter of Icewind Dale has no maps for most of the areas the party could explore. Dungeon of the Mad Mage, has all maps in black and white, lacking any sort of detail, if you want a perfect example of how little Wizards care, look at this site, no major updates in almost a year, save for those that make money, digital dice, new books etc. You can't use all the options for Tasha's years after release, Encounter Builder is still in beta and, no ability to create custom equipment or standard items. Its already making them money, so they have no intention of working on it further until it can be intergrated with their proprietary VTT.
The final release of 5e are also lack luster, Keys From the Golden Vault will be a movie tie in, while others will have systems and lack of content similar to Spelljammer. They are already decieving the fan base with promised of the next edition being backwards compatible, despite the playtest materials proving this to untrue or at the very least extremely difficult.
If they really wanted to increase sales and profits, they could simply release books that help DM's. Books of new eqipment and magic items, which hopefull Many Things will be. More source books or books with clear rules on mechanics for down time activities, exploration and vehicles. Or books with new traps and hazards.
To those of you hoping the largest and most vocal voices in the community will help, don't hold your breath. They will do whats in their best interest, anyone would in their position, they have homes to maintain and families to provide for. To blame them for keeping silent and accepting these terms is unreasonable, they have little to no choice.
The only way to stop this is to hurt Hasbro's and Wizards of the Coast's bottom line. The only way they will listen is if their profits take a hit, until then they won't care, as for people who blame developers, it is more than likely not their call and to keep their job they have to go along with it.
First, I don't support the proposed changes, I wont be accepting the new terms of this license if this is the route they are taking (leak or not). Second, this has left a bad taste in my mouth regarding WotC and Hasbro in general and will be looking to spend the thousands of dollars I do spend on their products elsewhere in the future. I will not be subjected to grotesque monetization practices. I hope for my love of the game, they listen to the criticism and they reverse course.
"When heroes fall, legends are born." - Aeon, the Awesome
TBH I would like to see the community come together in a MAJOR way like never before... NOT to fight the new CGL 1.1, or WotC/Hasbro, but to create a BRAND NEW Fantasy TTRPG that plays like D&D, but uses NOTHING of their IP and requires NO acceptance of any OGL or SRD.
It is doable. Given all the major players out there - the big TTRPG developers, the major TTRPG web sites (like EN World), the sheer size and creativeness of the community, imagine if this giant community created a new truly open-source system that plays like D&D but isn't beholden to WotC, and we can ALL then play in that creative playground royalty-free in real perpetuity, with a truly irrevocable open gaming license.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
As much as I love this idea, there's no way the community will agree on a direction for it. I'd love to tinker with some rules/game mechanics tho.
[REDACTED]
I will not financially support Wizards of the Coast if they attempt to revoke any previous OGL. #opendnd
Dude, it's speculation. Calm tf down lol
Yes it's bad, but from what I understand, WotC is literally unable to revoke the previous OGL.
[REDACTED]
It's not speculation. The ogl 1.1 that was sent out, attached to executable contracts just before Christmas, has leaked on line. If anything, it's actually worse than people are making it out to be. WotC may not be able to legally revoke the previous ogl, but what they can do is backrupt every single company that makes ogl products while they try and tie the matter up in court for years.