Wow! So the Shadowfell existed as far back as the age of Netheril.
No, that's a retcon. Back in 2e IIRC it was the elemental plane of shadow, and it wasn't quite the same thing. I think 3e had it as the elemental plane of shadow as well. 4e changed the planes a lot.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Before the Spellplague (explanation for game changes between 3.5e and 4e) there were the negative and positive elemental planes; the Shadowfell was created by Shar from remnants of the Negative Elemental Plane (which was a fairly uninteresting realm, since it just killed you if you went there).
In general the Forgotten Realms prefers to avoid plotlines of "humans being humans" in favor of having a more obvious bad guy, but you could certainly put together your own variant. What's the goal, though? Wars with no obvious bad guys aren't terribly good adventuring settings.
Some truth to that last sentiment if the characters are stuck as committed combatants through conscription or oath. But there's plenty of grey area space for adventurers to get involved in within the background of a war. Kelly's Heroes or Three Kings come to mind as war movies with a "loot" in the time of war theme. There was this BBC series about a detective in London during WWII, that is mystery, crime solving in the backdrop of war. But you're right, war, huh, what is it good for (as an adventure hook)? Say it again! And that song begs a question "why war?" which would be important. The suggested wars between England and France were fought not because they were England and France. This is really short shrift, but most wars in Europe prior to the modern era were fought over resources, religion, or some claim by blood or treaty to the throne of the opposition. Find a reason for the war to happen in the Realms. Religion won't happen outside of the good vs evil or evil vs evil because of the way the Pantheon is set up, it's not like there are two sects who disagree on how to worship Lathander to the degree they'll kill each other. So you're left with wars over resources or divine or legal claim. On resources, you could look at Baldur's Gate and Elturel. BG per some lore was basically established by pirates and never really gave up on it, or at least they claimed BG literally harbored pirates who harassed trading ships bound to Elturel. They could fight over that. But the reason you don't really get "real wars" in the Realms is because the conflicts set up are usually predicated on magic or good vs. evil type dynamics. You could have "Real war" it'd just be a departure from the regular lore.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
That's a legacy of the old TSR days when they were so worried about the accusations of the game being satanic, that the bad guys were never allowed to win, even a little. Ed Greenwood's said that /his/ realms are a lot darker.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
That's a legacy of the old TSR days when they were so worried about the accusations of the game being satanic, that the bad guys were never allowed to win, even a little. Ed Greenwood's said that /his/ realms are a lot darker.
There are some exceptions, like elves of Myth Drannor who just can't get a break.
That city enjoyed what, about 100 years of peace and independence in the last 900 years? :)
Lost to the Army of Darkness in 714 DR during the Weeping War, reclaimed 760 years later in 1374 and then destroyed again in 1487. It's like the writers don't want them there, period :D
Are there Positive and Negative Material planes in 5e? (I think the answer is yes but I’m not 100% sure.)
I would guess that there is, as many creatures are or use negative energy. However, 5e has shied away from the traditional 1e planes of existence map, with good reason I suppose. Can't have satanic panic if there is no hell (no heaven either).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
That's a legacy of the old TSR days when they were so worried about the accusations of the game being satanic, that the bad guys were never allowed to win, even a little. Ed Greenwood's said that /his/ realms are a lot darker.
There are some exceptions, like elves of Myth Drannor who just can't get a break.
That city enjoyed what, about 100 years of peace and independence in the last 900 years? :)
Lost to the Army of Darkness in 714 DR during the Weeping War, reclaimed 760 years later in 1374 and then destroyed again in 1487. It's like the writers don't want them there, period :D
It's because they were trying to reset things to the way it was at the end of 3e as much as possible. As much as I disliked the RSE they used to usher in 4e, I dislike the totally-not-a-retcon job they did at the end of it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Okay. But they undid a lot of stuff when 4e converted over to 5e. I know the Feywild and the Shadowfell still exist (and Ravenloft is part of the Shadowfell), but I wasn’t sure if they brought back the Positive and Negative Material planes too.
Is it possible that’s a question that hasn’t been answered yet in 5e? Just wondering.
That's a legacy of the old TSR days when they were so worried about the accusations of the game being satanic, that the bad guys were never allowed to win, even a little. Ed Greenwood's said that /his/ realms are a lot darker.
There are some exceptions, like elves of Myth Drannor who just can't get a break.
That city enjoyed what, about 100 years of peace and independence in the last 900 years? :)
Lost to the Army of Darkness in 714 DR during the Weeping War, reclaimed 760 years later in 1374 and then destroyed again in 1487. It's like the writers don't want them there, period :D
According to Ed Greenwood, only a section of the city was actually destroyed when Shade Enclave fell on it (though the SCAG certainly made it sound like most of the city was destroyed). Ilsevele and Fflar helped take refugees to places like Semberholme and Evereska. But, elven cities, being more forested, aren't quite as...concentrated as human cities, if you will, so only a section was actually leveled, and the elves are already rebuilding.
I agree though, they can't seem to catch a break lol.
Lost Empires of Faerun is a good source book to look into. It has info on things like Nethril and the Crown Wars, which was basically an elven civil war that ended in the fall of the elven (most notably sun elven) empire.
No, that's a retcon. Back in 2e IIRC it was the elemental plane of shadow, and it wasn't quite the same thing. I think 3e had it as the elemental plane of shadow as well. 4e changed the planes a lot.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Before the Spellplague (explanation for game changes between 3.5e and 4e) there were the negative and positive elemental planes; the Shadowfell was created by Shar from remnants of the Negative Elemental Plane (which was a fairly uninteresting realm, since it just killed you if you went there).
Some truth to that last sentiment if the characters are stuck as committed combatants through conscription or oath. But there's plenty of grey area space for adventurers to get involved in within the background of a war. Kelly's Heroes or Three Kings come to mind as war movies with a "loot" in the time of war theme. There was this BBC series about a detective in London during WWII, that is mystery, crime solving in the backdrop of war. But you're right, war, huh, what is it good for (as an adventure hook)? Say it again! And that song begs a question "why war?" which would be important. The suggested wars between England and France were fought not because they were England and France. This is really short shrift, but most wars in Europe prior to the modern era were fought over resources, religion, or some claim by blood or treaty to the throne of the opposition. Find a reason for the war to happen in the Realms. Religion won't happen outside of the good vs evil or evil vs evil because of the way the Pantheon is set up, it's not like there are two sects who disagree on how to worship Lathander to the degree they'll kill each other. So you're left with wars over resources or divine or legal claim. On resources, you could look at Baldur's Gate and Elturel. BG per some lore was basically established by pirates and never really gave up on it, or at least they claimed BG literally harbored pirates who harassed trading ships bound to Elturel. They could fight over that. But the reason you don't really get "real wars" in the Realms is because the conflicts set up are usually predicated on magic or good vs. evil type dynamics. You could have "Real war" it'd just be a departure from the regular lore.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
That's a legacy of the old TSR days when they were so worried about the accusations of the game being satanic, that the bad guys were never allowed to win, even a little. Ed Greenwood's said that /his/ realms are a lot darker.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
There are some exceptions, like elves of Myth Drannor who just can't get a break.
That city enjoyed what, about 100 years of peace and independence in the last 900 years? :)
Lost to the Army of Darkness in 714 DR during the Weeping War, reclaimed 760 years later in 1374 and then destroyed again in 1487. It's like the writers don't want them there, period :D
Sorry, one more question
Are there Positive and Negative Material planes in 5e? (I think the answer is yes but I’m not 100% sure.)
I would guess that there is, as many creatures are or use negative energy. However, 5e has shied away from the traditional 1e planes of existence map, with good reason I suppose. Can't have satanic panic if there is no hell (no heaven either).
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
The positive and negative elemental planes were removed in 4e (leftovers of the negative formed the Shadowfell) as part of the Spellplague.
That is interesting to know. I'll have to look it up. RL prevented me from playing 4e.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
It's because they were trying to reset things to the way it was at the end of 3e as much as possible. As much as I disliked the RSE they used to usher in 4e, I dislike the totally-not-a-retcon job they did at the end of it.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
No. When 4e came around, the positive and negative were merged with Faerie and elemental shadow to create the Feywild and Shadowfell respectively.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/World_Axis_cosmology
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Okay. But they undid a lot of stuff when 4e converted over to 5e. I know the Feywild and the Shadowfell still exist (and Ravenloft is part of the Shadowfell), but I wasn’t sure if they brought back the Positive and Negative Material planes too.
Is it possible that’s a question that hasn’t been answered yet in 5e? Just wondering.
The list of planes in the DMG doesn't include the energy planes.
That’s a pretty clear answer then. Thank you.
According to Ed Greenwood, only a section of the city was actually destroyed when Shade Enclave fell on it (though the SCAG certainly made it sound like most of the city was destroyed). Ilsevele and Fflar helped take refugees to places like Semberholme and Evereska. But, elven cities, being more forested, aren't quite as...concentrated as human cities, if you will, so only a section was actually leveled, and the elves are already rebuilding.
I agree though, they can't seem to catch a break lol.
Lost Empires of Faerun is a good source book to look into. It has info on things like Nethril and the Crown Wars, which was basically an elven civil war that ended in the fall of the elven (most notably sun elven) empire.
Just make it up... I mean that is what I do. ;)