Hi! So, I'm running Lost Mine of Phandelver, it's my first DMing campaign, and I truly felt like the BBEG fight was... bland? So, taking a few things into account, I buffed the hell out of it to make it into a cool fight, but I think I might have gone overboard. Any opinions?
Party is composed of 4 (maybe 5) lvl 4s, Sorcerer x2, Fighter and Cleric. (And maybe a rogue if they can)
Okay, sorry for the double post, won't do it again, but as for an update, I removed the lair actions and tweaked a few numbers, because it really felt overpowered. Now it should be in a better state, however I still have doubts, as it's my first real bossfight and all. Here's the updated version!
3 legendary actions per turn, spend all of them on Dark Pulse = 10 (3d6) damage to every creature each turn (no save to avoid). He should not use any other legendary actions unless he has run out of spiders, which won't happen before the PCs die.
With 2 attacks, using Bite and Staff, spider boy deals 11 (d4+2d8) and 9 (2d6+2) damage, for 20 damage total.
So that's a total of 30 damage in one turn to a level 4 character, if both hit: but he doesn't need to hit them. Dark Pulse will kill them all before they can DPS him down.
Assuming +2 Con modifier, a level 4 sorcerer will average 24 hit points at level 4. Level 4 fighter should have 29, the cleric should have 27, and the possible rogue has 27.
Now factor in the giant spiders.
Purely running the Dark Pulse maths and factoring in a couple of spiders or attacks from the boss, you should expect both sorcerers to go down on turn 2, and all remaining party members go down on turn 3.
With 140 hit points, each character must deal 10 damage to him every turn in order to kill him by the end of turn 3. With just one attack and a likely max of +6 to their hit rolls, a maxed out PC is more likely to average one hit every other turn for 11 damage - 6.5 damage per turn.
Even on a long rest, your players are probably toast, and that's without factoring in the giant spiders assisting it purely because of the unavoidable 3d6 damage per turn. This calculation assumes that the boss is using Dark Pulse every legendary action, but unless he's on low hit points, he should be.
I'd put in a DC12 Constitution saving throw to negate the effects of Dark Pulse. If you do so, they'll have a tough fight but will probably do it.
Ah right, fair! The Con save slapped onto Dark Pulse sounds good, but the perhaps I should remove the disadvantage from Lolth's Fury? Or is that still fine?
Otherwise, maybe I could make Dark Pulse cost 2 actions instead of 1, even if that would be a heavy nerf
Right off the bat, congrats on your first time DMing a campaign. I can appreciate your willingness to alter the "as-written" stuff to attempt to make it more fun for your party.
That said, the encounters in that cave total several adventuring days worth of xp for a party of 5 - Level 5 PCs. I'll grant you that the party doesn't have to hit *every* combat encounter in the place, I'm merely suggesting that there is plenty of challenge to be had once the party straggles into the Temple. Should the BBEG have an idea that anyone is following, ya know, sounds of battle, he'll be invisible and hiding with the intent of getting off a little surprise ambush for the party. Which, surprise is a debate that shouldn't be had here and now, would definitely spell doom for the party with your BBEG as modified. Especially since you've effectively transformed a drow into a drider.
All alone, a single CR 6 and four CR 1 creatures make for a deadly encounter for a 5th Level party. Of course this is assumed to be part of the 6-8 encounters per day bit, however, if your party is not fully rested and they roll off in there. Played intelligently as an NPC that would want them dead, they could easily TPK. IMO, the action economy of the encounter after homebrew is skewed pretty far from a winnable fight. Nerfing the actions so that they hit like mini-marshmallows doesn't lend itself to a challenging fight either.
And this is the only part that really matters - you know your party better than any of us here do. You would know best what is and isn't deadly to them, or how they do with PC death and failure. If you are confident that they can handle what you're throwing at them, then wind up and pitch. Play the game and create fun.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Alright, small updates! As suggested, I added the CON save, and also made it so it takes 2 actions. To counterbalance it, I left the disadvantage on Con saves starting phase 2. I also removed the bonus hit points on spiders, all in all it was meh, and she had too many options.
That said, the encounters in that cave total several adventuring days worth of xp for a party of 5 - Level 5 PCs. I'll grant you that the party doesn't have to hit *every* combat encounter in the place, I'm merely suggesting that there is plenty of challenge to be had once the party straggles into the Temple. Should the BBEG have an idea that anyone is following, ya know, sounds of battle, he'll be invisible and hiding with the intent of getting off a little surprise ambush for the party. Which, surprise is a debate that shouldn't be had here and now, would definitely spell doom for the party with your BBEG as modified. Especially since you've effectively transformed a drow into a drider.
All alone, a single CR 6 and four CR 1 creatures make for a deadly encounter for a 5th Level party. Of course this is assumed to be part of the 6-8 encounters per day bit, however, if your party is not fully rested and they roll off in there. Played intelligently as an NPC that would want them dead, they could easily TPK. IMO, the action economy of the encounter after homebrew is skewed pretty far from a winnable fight. Nerfing the actions so that they hit like mini-marshmallows doesn't lend itself to a challenging fight either.
And this is the only part that really matters - you know your party better than any of us here do. You would know best what is and isn't deadly to them, or how they do with PC death and failure. If you are confident that they can handle what you're throwing at them, then wind up and pitch. Play the game and create fun.
About this, thanks for the feedback, however yeah, I don't take the rest of the cave into account, as I don't plan to make Nezznar ambush them before the end, and I *know* they'll find a way to make a long rest before fighting him. Earlier on, in the Cragmaw Hideout (as you seem to be familiar with the module), they managed to get a long rest *inside* the cave lmao. So yeah, I intend for them to be at full power when this starts. I'll consider options if that doesn't happen though, you're right!
Update if people are curious, I nerfed it a little bit as they arrived in the chamber without resting at all and after doing the spectator, but it went surprisingly easy. Poor rolls on the enemy's part, Vyerith was barely involved, and the second phase got one-shot by a Guiding Bolt crit lmao.
In terms of ambiance though, it was pretty decent, and without the crit, it would have been okay imo.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
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Hi! So, I'm running Lost Mine of Phandelver, it's my first DMing campaign, and I truly felt like the BBEG fight was... bland? So, taking a few things into account, I buffed the hell out of it to make it into a cool fight, but I think I might have gone overboard. Any opinions?
Party is composed of 4 (maybe 5) lvl 4s, Sorcerer x2, Fighter and Cleric. (And maybe a rogue if they can)
https://i.imgur.com/tGhSoIx.png
PS: Vyerith is a buffed Doppelganger, but not that buffed tbh, just more HP, a bit of mobility and a bow.
Okay, sorry for the double post, won't do it again, but as for an update, I removed the lair actions and tweaked a few numbers, because it really felt overpowered. Now it should be in a better state, however I still have doubts, as it's my first real bossfight and all. Here's the updated version!
https://imgur.com/a/o7Qfv6N
Even on a long rest, your players are probably toast, and that's without factoring in the giant spiders assisting it purely because of the unavoidable 3d6 damage per turn. This calculation assumes that the boss is using Dark Pulse every legendary action, but unless he's on low hit points, he should be.
I'd put in a DC12 Constitution saving throw to negate the effects of Dark Pulse. If you do so, they'll have a tough fight but will probably do it.
Ah right, fair! The Con save slapped onto Dark Pulse sounds good, but the perhaps I should remove the disadvantage from Lolth's Fury? Or is that still fine?
Otherwise, maybe I could make Dark Pulse cost 2 actions instead of 1, even if that would be a heavy nerf
Right off the bat, congrats on your first time DMing a campaign. I can appreciate your willingness to alter the "as-written" stuff to attempt to make it more fun for your party.
That said, the encounters in that cave total several adventuring days worth of xp for a party of 5 - Level 5 PCs. I'll grant you that the party doesn't have to hit *every* combat encounter in the place, I'm merely suggesting that there is plenty of challenge to be had once the party straggles into the Temple. Should the BBEG have an idea that anyone is following, ya know, sounds of battle, he'll be invisible and hiding with the intent of getting off a little surprise ambush for the party. Which, surprise is a debate that shouldn't be had here and now, would definitely spell doom for the party with your BBEG as modified. Especially since you've effectively transformed a drow into a drider.
All alone, a single CR 6 and four CR 1 creatures make for a deadly encounter for a 5th Level party. Of course this is assumed to be part of the 6-8 encounters per day bit, however, if your party is not fully rested and they roll off in there. Played intelligently as an NPC that would want them dead, they could easily TPK. IMO, the action economy of the encounter after homebrew is skewed pretty far from a winnable fight. Nerfing the actions so that they hit like mini-marshmallows doesn't lend itself to a challenging fight either.
And this is the only part that really matters - you know your party better than any of us here do. You would know best what is and isn't deadly to them, or how they do with PC death and failure. If you are confident that they can handle what you're throwing at them, then wind up and pitch. Play the game and create fun.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Alright, small updates! As suggested, I added the CON save, and also made it so it takes 2 actions. To counterbalance it, I left the disadvantage on Con saves starting phase 2. I also removed the bonus hit points on spiders, all in all it was meh, and she had too many options.
https://imgur.com/omgLdtj
About this, thanks for the feedback, however yeah, I don't take the rest of the cave into account, as I don't plan to make Nezznar ambush them before the end, and I *know* they'll find a way to make a long rest before fighting him. Earlier on, in the Cragmaw Hideout (as you seem to be familiar with the module), they managed to get a long rest *inside* the cave lmao. So yeah, I intend for them to be at full power when this starts. I'll consider options if that doesn't happen though, you're right!
Update if people are curious, I nerfed it a little bit as they arrived in the chamber without resting at all and after doing the spectator, but it went surprisingly easy. Poor rolls on the enemy's part, Vyerith was barely involved, and the second phase got one-shot by a Guiding Bolt crit lmao.
In terms of ambiance though, it was pretty decent, and without the crit, it would have been okay imo.
Glad that everything worked out well!
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad