* Alzaren, Bruno and Grom: Spoilers ahead, don't read *

I decided to run hoard of the dragon queen before I realized how much re-work is required for it to work. There are lots of resources, which is great. However, I've ran into this issue a few times already: my players don't want to throw themselves into a suicide situation. 

I have new to ttrpg players, but they are some amazing players. They think critically, are creative and work with each other. They don't have any bad habits from past editions and whatnot. But they also lack a bit of a trigger finger.

I did a session zero before Greenest where they were on a caravan that was ambushed by a front-guard as the raid started. They came over the hill to see the burning town and a blue dragon circling above - they all gasped, it was a super cool moment. At the start of session two they considered just bailing on this town, for level 1 characters it's a daunting task to run into this town being over run and attacked by a dragon! I convinced them that they would save considerable lives if they helped, after all, theyre heros! The next few sessions went great. 

Fast forward to Raiders Camp. They interrogated the "stragglers" and gleaned a lot of the information that Nighthill requested. They just needed to confirm the number of raiders and the exact location of the camp. They snuck up to the side of the camp and observed for a while. They saw Leosin, one of their backstories involved a childhood friend- I made her a prisoner for an extra hook. I had some bad cultists come and grab her and drag her into the cave. Then they decide this is way over their heads, surely they'll die and they should get this information back to Nighthill as they gathered basically everything he asked for. As they began to slink away I tried to catch them with some veterans who were on patrol. Some awesome stealth rolls and a creative minor illusion spell gave them a deserved out in my opinion.

Now they have gone back to Greenest- they did what was asked of them. I had a reward established and so since they did what was asked, they received it. The monks are upset and Nighthill thinks Leosin would have been a much better information source and he leaned on the players a bit. 

Now I would love some ideas here. How can I get them to save Leosin? My thoughts are he was dragged into the cave with the PC's old friend. They go back to camp and the raiders have gone but they now need to clear the hatchery, which is where select prisoners are now kept? Also, I really try to hook them in and give multiple reasons for proceeding- how do I get them to pull the trigger?Such a railroady style module needs that. I had objectives and npc's in danger, I even established a thieves guild in Greenest and they supplied the party with a special oil that gave advantage on stealth checks for a week when applied to armor!

Any help with this to get back on track would be great. Thanks!

There are plenty of places to drop Leosin back into the path of the adventurers in coming chapters. It doesn't *have* to be in the cave, but it might be more narratively beneficial if you do it sooner, rather than later.

The raider's camp is only supposed to be the party sneaking in, rescuing the captives they can, and sneaking out. If the party believes that they have to fight the whole camp, it's a suicide mission, and nearly impossible to run. Same with Greenest, they don't have to fix everything, they just need to do something to help. Some of the details presented are there for in-game fencing, to keep the party from straying too far off the path. The overarching problems need to be big, so that the specific tasks that you give the party seem small and achievable in comparison. Letting the players see the 30,000 ft. view helps with the story. Keeping the PCs zoomed in to the 300 ft. view makes their tasks more manageable. Right now the party *feels* like they have a 10% chance of success and a 90% chance of death. Maybe try to simplify the tasks, and ease into some of the larger details to help your party *feel* like they have closer to a 30-40% chance of success and a 60-70% chance of death.

I changed HotDQ quite a bit...

when I ran the raider camp my group came across a straggler waggon carrying barrels and barrels of "Famous Grognax Dwarfen whisky" being escorted by hired mercenaries/bandits and some Dragon cultists.... they  have had a big bust up because the bandits wanted to "try" some of the great whisky while the dragon cultists are all "oh no this his for the cult..."  end result cultists dead and the few bandits left are blind drunk... 

My group didn't take long to come up with the plan to enter disguised as cultists with a waggon loaded with whisky... after getting offing the drunk bandits that is.... 

There I had Rezmir totally overreact to finding Leosin Erlanthar who had given him the impression of braking during interrogation and letting slip that the Harpers know whats happening and could be here in force soon! So he orders to brake camp straight away and disperse the loot quickly...

So the players ended up getting roped into helping carry loot out of the cave loading carts that head off with all the rest of the camp in all directions.

I didn't want any back and forth to he raiders camp so that was my solution Leosin Erlanthar was also being kept in the cave 

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Now to actually suggest something for your situation

You could bring in the cavalry? have a large force turn up at Greenest that requests the group come and act as guides to the camp? which is then empty... and have the cavalry officer turn his nose up at entering caves? as Cavalry fight on horses.... prefering to chase after the loot and the wagon tracks... leaving the cave to the group?....   

hope it helps would be cool to hear what you decide on  and how it went wishing you all the best
 

What your group did is exactly why modules aren't more fleshed out and always need work.  You have a framework and general path but you always need to be flexible and change things to fit what the players do.

I would suggest that the town tells the party that large numbers of cultist escorting loaded wagons were seen on the road traveling by night from the hide out.  

Ask them to head there and see if they can find anything that would give information on where they are headed or what they plan to do next. (Maybe give them a speak with animals scroll get info from local wildlife if no one has the ability)

This can lead them into the empty camp, into the cave, saving Leosin, and Leosin asking them to track down the caravan.  Leosin can basically recruit the party on behalf of the harpers if you want to use them as a story element that gives them info and tasks to keep them on plot.

Thanks for your input. I'm going to re-visit the next few chapters and see what the best way I can work Leosin in is.

I think your point about narrowing the view is great. I'll try to implement that as best as possible, I'll think of some ways to zoom in a bit. My concern is we have the party on a railroad here and if I then narrow their focus too far they loose a sense of the freedom that makes things fun. I appreciate the advice!

What a great idea having a cart bringing celebratory drinks to camp! That was a great opportunity for your party. I also love your idea of Rezmir over-reacting in front of the party so they can hear the decision to break camp.

I love your idea of bringing in the cavalry or some sort of support force. This is my first module, everything else has been home brew. So I think hearing your cool ideas is making me re-think my impact on the module. I may use some of your suggestions, thanks very much for sharing them.

I'll come back with what I decide on! Next session is in the new year some time. Thanks!

Having the town tell them that scouts have seen the raiders moving carts from the camp and asking them to investigate is another good suggestion.

I really have worked with their moves and adapted as best as possible, I've added and subtracted to the module and been flexible. If I wanted to I would have just caught them by the patrol, I don't want their rolls to feel insignificant though. I think they had 17, 23 and 24 on stealth. This just seemed like a point in all my readings where the community DM's said they must enter the camp and save Leosin. It's great to hear some awesome suggestions contrary to that, thank you!

Something that happened when I ran my friends through HotDQ was that they immediately showed sympathy for the Kobolds in the camp. This gave them a group of allies to lean on within the camp, so they didn't feel quite so overwhelmed and it also gave them a goal... the Kobolds could be rescued, and they're familiar enough with the cave-filled terrain that they can escape.