So i am a first time GM running lost mines of phandelver into Tyranny of Dragons.
I am planning on adding The Sunless Citadel and The Forge of Fury into the areas sorounding Phandalin and linking the Cult of the Dragon to multiple events through out the whole of the Lost Mines of Phandelver.
Some of my thoughts are to have the Black Spider be an agent of the Cult. He is interested in the Forge of Spells as the magic from the wave echo cavern wasn't bound to the forge itself but a great jewel which acts as a power source/focus for the forge. If the party manages to win then the Jewel will either reside in the wave echo with one of the factions protecting it, or be given to one of the factions to protect and later be used to create magic items to help with the final battle in Rise of Tiamat.
Everyone hired by the Black Spider won't know his true intent bar the dopplegangers.
The Dragon Cultists will be trying to persuade Venomfang to join them and ultimately will suceed with Venomfang being given the powers of the Green Dragon from the Tyranny of Dragons and taking his place so the party have a history with him.
There is a temptation to have the Dragon Cultists allready have suceeded unbeknownst to them and have Venom Fang trick the party into giving him the focus from the Forge of Spells so he can enhance his standing in the cult.
If the party beat the Black Spider even going as far to have Venom Fang attack them traveling from the cave back to Phandalin and trying to take the crystal for himself.
I would also tie the Thundertree ruins to the sunless citadel and have the blights the party face there coming from the citadel. A seperate band of cultists will be tasked with searching the citadel for any information/hidden relics from the original cult who built it to honour Ashandalon.
Ultimately making it a race to catch up with the cultists and prevent them from trying to take the power of the seeds for the dragon queens hoard.
Im not sure yet how to tie in the Forge of Fury, i think it should be at the end so i am considering having a letter detailing the cults activities on The Black Spider so the party learn of the bigger picture after defeating him. If they lose to him then having the faction they have the most affiliation with advise them of the cults movements.
Lastly i was going to make Hamun Kost be part of the splintered Red Wizzards and the knowledge he is seeking at the old owl well/from the banshee is for a magical item again to take back and add to the hoard.
They would then be advised of the escalated activity of the cult to the south and travel to meet contacts before going to the village of Greenrest and starting Hoard, or the orders on The Black Spider will advise of a meeting place and date to join the larger cult movement taking the party to Greenrest.
Any thoughts on my plans for extending LMoP and making it more Cult of the Dragon focus would be greatly appreciated.
Ps. I realise there will need to be balancing throughout to ensure the party arnt over/under leveled for a lot of the content but i, perhaps naively, don't imagine that to be a problem.
Pps. The party i am running this for are also first time players. The party consists of a, ranger, rogue, druid, barbarian and sorcerer. They are currently in Phandalin about to deal with the Redbrands
Sounds good. Don't really have to worry too much about balancing until lvl 8+ where the sorcerer gradually starts learning spells that can really make life hell for you. Overall the druid is strong if using certain spells straight out of the gate. So you might want to make encounters more difficult then less. Its easier to take something away from an encounter then it is to add imo.
Also get ready for spending A LOT of time retro fitting all the content you want to use. I spend a month or two prepping those outlines. Afterwards you're so intimate with the content that the prep time from session to session is almost nothing. Allowing you to improvise on the spot if need be.
I'm running Sunless Citadel, Forge of Fury and Red Hand of Doom prior to Rise of Tiamat. First 10 levels take place in the Elsir Vale, then Rise of Tiamat in Sword Coast before returning home to their Keep from which the story resumes. The way I tied the Forge in is that the duergar are hired by the Cult cell operating in that area. Hired to find Durgeddin's secrets on how to craft awesome +2 and such armor/weaponry for the armies. Also adjusting the Forge a bit to have some imagery and hints that Durgeddin learned his crafting secrets from Azers. To have a link with the Elemental Chaos of Fire for lvl 17+ interplanar travel quests. The Duergar in turn are using the Underdark passages spread across the land to transport the crafted gear to any location deemed needed. Outside of public/spy view. The dragon is there more to keep an eye on the Duergar. Maybe this could help in dealing with your issues?
I've only read, not run, the mines of Pandelver so can't help there.
Yeah i find myself constantly reading adventures and coming up with ideas so im just adding things i like.
I am worrying about how to deal with the forge of spells and forge of fury due to them both being magic item generaters. I am going with the general 5e theme that magic items are rare and also not adding simple +1/2/3 weapons. Each weapon will have something special about them and a little description.
Thinking i should use the spell forge and forge of fury for winning/losing points at the councils and eventually supplying magic items for the final battle in rise of the tiamat.
Thanks for the reply i find everything helps at the moment
I'm not including Sunless and Force, opting for some Phandalin-based stuff of DM Guild, but am doing the same thing. I like your idea and plan to include a great deal more cult-related activity into the mix. One of my ideas was to make Glasstaff a cultist who is aiding The Spider. He's going to be a reoccurring villain for me and in the end will be showing up as one of the mini-bosses in possession of a mask.
I like the idea of Glass Staff maybe becoming a cultist if he escapes the party or if he gets imprisoned and later broken out by the cult.
Don't want to make him more important immediately cause the party can kill him and dont want to take away the option but there is loads od fun things to do with him if he lives.
I like the idea of Glass Staff maybe becoming a cultist if he escapes the party or if he gets imprisoned and later broken out by the cult.
Don't want to make him more important immediately cause the party can kill him and dont want to take away the option but there is loads od fun things to do with him if he lives.
Nothing says "evil villain" like him popping a potion of invisibility when he gets down to one-quarter hit points and running off yelling the famous statement, "I'll be back!"
I like the idea of Glass Staff maybe becoming a cultist if he escapes the party or if he gets imprisoned and later broken out by the cult.
Don't want to make him more important immediately cause the party can kill him and dont want to take away the option but there is loads od fun things to do with him if he lives.
Nothing says "evil villain" like him popping a potion of invisibility when he gets down to one-quarter hit points and running off yelling the famous statement, "I'll be back!"
then the ranger, who has hunters marked him, can still vaguely sense his presence. attacks with disadvantage and still kills the bad guy. Or combines it with the druid quickly casting faerie fire to undo invisibility.
As you continue to connect the two (Lost Mines - Tyranny), you can have your party meet/become aware of some of the power brokers along the sword coast.
Depending on your opening hook, Perhaps the person sending you from Neverwinter to Phandolin was an agent of Lord Neverember so as the party progresses he may slowly become aware. Similarly some of your side quests could involve some of the other factions.
Perhaps the banshee comes from an old elvish family that has standing in Silverymoon and there is something there that the party can use to curry favor.
If you are using Gundren and the Rockseekers, restoring the mine could bring some acknowledgement from the dwarves etc.
Part of the fun part is connecting things :)
Good luck!
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"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
Also get ready for spending A LOT of time retro fitting all the content you want to use. I spend a month or two prepping those outlines. Afterwards you're so intimate with the content that the prep time from session to session is almost nothing.
Giblis, as a first time DM I'm very curious - what exactly does prepping the outlines for pre-written adventures look like for you?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM: Three separate games of Lost Mine of Phandelver x Dragon of Icespire Peak x Tyranny of Dragons x Kobold press one-shots x homebrew content
Let's take Sunless Citadel as example. The outlines for me are Oakhurst and the 1 or 2 quest hooks, as well as 1 or 2 key NPC's with possible political atmosphere in that city. Outline is to enter Oakhurst, meet a few NPC's then go to the citadel. With knowing some information of the possible political climate, possible rivalies and personalities of NPC's and the main quest hook... From there you can improvise and fill in the blanks anyway you want it to be. If one NPC doesn't provide the information, because your players don't interact with it, then you can have another NPC give the information.
The citadel itself I focus more on the atmosphere of the area. First part is of the kobolds. How do they live? What are their goals? Their key quest info and NPC's? Are there rivaling tribes in the area? What effect would that have on a possible power struggle? etc etc. Then once again you can fill in the blanks as you go and focus less on frantically holding onto what the manual says. Who cares about the individual rooms and encounters? You can improvise those on the spot with the flavor/tension you want for that moment.
For the Sunless Citadel some key elements are Belak and the Gulthias tree, the hob goblins and how they aren't original members of the goblin tribe, the kobolds, the fact Belak is experimenting on rats which can lead to flavorable descriptions of the diseased rats as foreboding, Belak is cultivating plants from the Underdark, Belak is spreading seeds through the region causing blighted creatures to appear. With that information you can pretty much re-create the details how you want in order to fit in with next modules. Or you can flesh out elements in the module that you want to be more clear. BEcause a lot is rather a short mention or something that you need to read between the lines. But fleshing it out more can really bring your modules to live and/or create entirely new story lines.
I'm doing the same with my sons. First time DM running them through LMoP right now. I'm leaving hints for them to go to Tyranny of Dragons OR Dragonheist->Mad Mage after. Kind of letting them indirectly choose. They are about to go into Wave Echo Cave. The Black Spider will name drop Halaster and the Undermountain. They haven't been to Thundertree yet, so I plan on doing similar to you with Venomfang. Going to be interesting to see which way they go.
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So i am a first time GM running lost mines of phandelver into Tyranny of Dragons.
I am planning on adding The Sunless Citadel and The Forge of Fury into the areas sorounding Phandalin and linking the Cult of the Dragon to multiple events through out the whole of the Lost Mines of Phandelver.
Some of my thoughts are to have the Black Spider be an agent of the Cult. He is interested in the Forge of Spells as the magic from the wave echo cavern wasn't bound to the forge itself but a great jewel which acts as a power source/focus for the forge. If the party manages to win then the Jewel will either reside in the wave echo with one of the factions protecting it, or be given to one of the factions to protect and later be used to create magic items to help with the final battle in Rise of Tiamat.
Everyone hired by the Black Spider won't know his true intent bar the dopplegangers.
The Dragon Cultists will be trying to persuade Venomfang to join them and ultimately will suceed with Venomfang being given the powers of the Green Dragon from the Tyranny of Dragons and taking his place so the party have a history with him.
There is a temptation to have the Dragon Cultists allready have suceeded unbeknownst to them and have Venom Fang trick the party into giving him the focus from the Forge of Spells so he can enhance his standing in the cult.
If the party beat the Black Spider even going as far to have Venom Fang attack them traveling from the cave back to Phandalin and trying to take the crystal for himself.
I would also tie the Thundertree ruins to the sunless citadel and have the blights the party face there coming from the citadel. A seperate band of cultists will be tasked with searching the citadel for any information/hidden relics from the original cult who built it to honour Ashandalon.
Ultimately making it a race to catch up with the cultists and prevent them from trying to take the power of the seeds for the dragon queens hoard.
Im not sure yet how to tie in the Forge of Fury, i think it should be at the end so i am considering having a letter detailing the cults activities on The Black Spider so the party learn of the bigger picture after defeating him. If they lose to him then having the faction they have the most affiliation with advise them of the cults movements.
Lastly i was going to make Hamun Kost be part of the splintered Red Wizzards and the knowledge he is seeking at the old owl well/from the banshee is for a magical item again to take back and add to the hoard.
They would then be advised of the escalated activity of the cult to the south and travel to meet contacts before going to the village of Greenrest and starting Hoard, or the orders on The Black Spider will advise of a meeting place and date to join the larger cult movement taking the party to Greenrest.
Any thoughts on my plans for extending LMoP and making it more Cult of the Dragon focus would be greatly appreciated.
Ps. I realise there will need to be balancing throughout to ensure the party arnt over/under leveled for a lot of the content but i, perhaps naively, don't imagine that to be a problem.
Pps. The party i am running this for are also first time players. The party consists of a, ranger, rogue, druid, barbarian and sorcerer. They are currently in Phandalin about to deal with the Redbrands
Sounds good. Don't really have to worry too much about balancing until lvl 8+ where the sorcerer gradually starts learning spells that can really make life hell for you. Overall the druid is strong if using certain spells straight out of the gate. So you might want to make encounters more difficult then less. Its easier to take something away from an encounter then it is to add imo.
Also get ready for spending A LOT of time retro fitting all the content you want to use. I spend a month or two prepping those outlines. Afterwards you're so intimate with the content that the prep time from session to session is almost nothing. Allowing you to improvise on the spot if need be.
I'm running Sunless Citadel, Forge of Fury and Red Hand of Doom prior to Rise of Tiamat. First 10 levels take place in the Elsir Vale, then Rise of Tiamat in Sword Coast before returning home to their Keep from which the story resumes. The way I tied the Forge in is that the duergar are hired by the Cult cell operating in that area. Hired to find Durgeddin's secrets on how to craft awesome +2 and such armor/weaponry for the armies. Also adjusting the Forge a bit to have some imagery and hints that Durgeddin learned his crafting secrets from Azers. To have a link with the Elemental Chaos of Fire for lvl 17+ interplanar travel quests. The Duergar in turn are using the Underdark passages spread across the land to transport the crafted gear to any location deemed needed. Outside of public/spy view. The dragon is there more to keep an eye on the Duergar. Maybe this could help in dealing with your issues?
I've only read, not run, the mines of Pandelver so can't help there.
Yeah i find myself constantly reading adventures and coming up with ideas so im just adding things i like.
I am worrying about how to deal with the forge of spells and forge of fury due to them both being magic item generaters. I am going with the general 5e theme that magic items are rare and also not adding simple +1/2/3 weapons. Each weapon will have something special about them and a little description.
Thinking i should use the spell forge and forge of fury for winning/losing points at the councils and eventually supplying magic items for the final battle in rise of the tiamat.
Thanks for the reply i find everything helps at the moment
I'm not including Sunless and Force, opting for some Phandalin-based stuff of DM Guild, but am doing the same thing. I like your idea and plan to include a great deal more cult-related activity into the mix. One of my ideas was to make Glasstaff a cultist who is aiding The Spider. He's going to be a reoccurring villain for me and in the end will be showing up as one of the mini-bosses in possession of a mask.
I like the idea of Glass Staff maybe becoming a cultist if he escapes the party or if he gets imprisoned and later broken out by the cult.
Don't want to make him more important immediately cause the party can kill him and dont want to take away the option but there is loads od fun things to do with him if he lives.
Nothing says "evil villain" like him popping a potion of invisibility when he gets down to one-quarter hit points and running off yelling the famous statement, "I'll be back!"
then the ranger, who has hunters marked him, can still vaguely sense his presence. attacks with disadvantage and still kills the bad guy. Or combines it with the druid quickly casting faerie fire to undo invisibility.
Yeah even though my players are all new i am making sure i dont hedge my bets on anything and have multiple ways to go.
Tonight they are gonna take on the hideout so ill see how it goes and let you know glass staffs fate.
As you continue to connect the two (Lost Mines - Tyranny), you can have your party meet/become aware of some of the power brokers along the sword coast.
Depending on your opening hook, Perhaps the person sending you from Neverwinter to Phandolin was an agent of Lord Neverember so as the party progresses he may slowly become aware. Similarly some of your side quests could involve some of the other factions.
Perhaps the banshee comes from an old elvish family that has standing in Silverymoon and there is something there that the party can use to curry favor.
If you are using Gundren and the Rockseekers, restoring the mine could bring some acknowledgement from the dwarves etc.
Part of the fun part is connecting things :)
Good luck!
"An' things ha' come to a pretty pass, ye ken, if people are going to leave stuff like that aroound where innocent people could accidentally smash the door doon and lever the bars aside and take the big chain off'f the cupboard and pick the lock and drink it!"
Yeah I'm in the process of combining LMoP, Sunless Citadel and Tyranny of Dragons too ^^
Giblis, as a first time DM I'm very curious - what exactly does prepping the outlines for pre-written adventures look like for you?
DM: Three separate games of Lost Mine of Phandelver x Dragon of Icespire Peak x Tyranny of Dragons x Kobold press one-shots x homebrew content
Let's take Sunless Citadel as example. The outlines for me are Oakhurst and the 1 or 2 quest hooks, as well as 1 or 2 key NPC's with possible political atmosphere in that city. Outline is to enter Oakhurst, meet a few NPC's then go to the citadel. With knowing some information of the possible political climate, possible rivalies and personalities of NPC's and the main quest hook... From there you can improvise and fill in the blanks anyway you want it to be. If one NPC doesn't provide the information, because your players don't interact with it, then you can have another NPC give the information.
The citadel itself I focus more on the atmosphere of the area. First part is of the kobolds. How do they live? What are their goals? Their key quest info and NPC's? Are there rivaling tribes in the area? What effect would that have on a possible power struggle? etc etc. Then once again you can fill in the blanks as you go and focus less on frantically holding onto what the manual says. Who cares about the individual rooms and encounters? You can improvise those on the spot with the flavor/tension you want for that moment.
For the Sunless Citadel some key elements are Belak and the Gulthias tree, the hob goblins and how they aren't original members of the goblin tribe, the kobolds, the fact Belak is experimenting on rats which can lead to flavorable descriptions of the diseased rats as foreboding, Belak is cultivating plants from the Underdark, Belak is spreading seeds through the region causing blighted creatures to appear. With that information you can pretty much re-create the details how you want in order to fit in with next modules. Or you can flesh out elements in the module that you want to be more clear. BEcause a lot is rather a short mention or something that you need to read between the lines. But fleshing it out more can really bring your modules to live and/or create entirely new story lines.
I'm doing the same with my sons. First time DM running them through LMoP right now. I'm leaving hints for them to go to Tyranny of Dragons OR Dragonheist->Mad Mage after. Kind of letting them indirectly choose. They are about to go into Wave Echo Cave. The Black Spider will name drop Halaster and the Undermountain. They haven't been to Thundertree yet, so I plan on doing similar to you with Venomfang. Going to be interesting to see which way they go.