Lost Mine of Phandelver has a young green dragon in Thunder Tree and Dragon of Icespire Peak has a young white dragon in the hold that shares the name of the module. For some context, I am running LMoP but added in DoIP to add to the things for the party to do. My plan is for once the party has secured Wave Echo Cave, there will be some downtime before things get turned on their head and I move over to running Tyranny of Dragons, replacing Greenest with Phandalin.
My question for the DMs who read this forum is that this seems to be REALLY really close to each other for two young, upstart dragons. I was already kind of playing the green dragon as an interloper looking to establish its lair after being ousted from its previous lair. I plan to have cultists replace the bandit mercenaries holed up in the gatehouse of Icespire Hold, since the Cult of the Dragon is actively recruiting dragons to their cause, would this alter their interactions at all?
In the ice spire peak module Cryovain hasn't been at icespire very long. The reason that Cryovain is so disruptive and dangerous is that they've just arrived after being forced out of their old home by giants. This means they have forced the orcs out of their home leading to raids. Cryovain hasn't had time to amass a hoard as he has at most been there a few weeks
Venom fang probably hasn't been there long either but the territory he occupied was abandoned and full of zombies so he didn't cause many issues. He's been there long enough to start amassing a hoard and attract the attention of the cult of the dragon.
If you want Cryovain to have been there longer you may want to give them a hoard and ditch the orcs.
Those are some solid points. I think I will adjust most of the encounters from orcs to goblins and hobgoblins to fit more of the vibe that of LMoP. I am also having The Spider be a mercenary hired by Talis The White as a play at gaining power and influence to try and convince Severin to name her the White Dragonspeaker.
I saw the same dragon vs dragon conflict, with Phandalin stuck in the middle. I don't think you have to really change anything, both of the adventures can be blended and (I think) it presents a much more robust region.
You'll have to do some encounter scaling when the characters get beyond L5 but I think it's a great way to add a lot of excitement and potential dragon politics. Two dragons can't be that close for long...
Lost Mine of Phandelver has a young green dragon in Thunder Tree and Dragon of Icespire Peak has a young white dragon in the hold that shares the name of the module. For some context, I am running LMoP but added in DoIP to add to the things for the party to do. My plan is for once the party has secured Wave Echo Cave, there will be some downtime before things get turned on their head and I move over to running Tyranny of Dragons, replacing Greenest with Phandalin.
My question for the DMs who read this forum is that this seems to be REALLY really close to each other for two young, upstart dragons. I was already kind of playing the green dragon as an interloper looking to establish its lair after being ousted from its previous lair. I plan to have cultists replace the bandit mercenaries holed up in the gatehouse of Icespire Hold, since the Cult of the Dragon is actively recruiting dragons to their cause, would this alter their interactions at all?
I'm actually running to two merged together myself for a new group. Best I figure is that Thundertree and Icespire Peak are around 60-70 miles apart. Now, sure that's not that far but it's still at least a considerable journey. Let's halve that though and say that they are going to hunt in a 30-mile radius of their lairs. Well, then there is plenty of prey and food within those six hexes for each dragon. So I don't see why there would need to be a territorial dispute unless absolutely necessary.
As others have pointed out though, they are both relatively new to the area so may not be aware of each other yet. The dragons probably don't even know what major threats exist in the area.
Personally, I'd have the Cult of the Dragon being tolerated in Icespire while Cryovain considers their offer. Given Cryovain's history in Forgotten Realms Lore, I'd probably have Cryovain plotting basically to eat the Cultists, because his past treatment at the hands of humanoids is not likely to make him want anything from them. He is after all described as 'dim witted and cruel'. I'd have him toying with the cultists. Likewise, of the two I would suggest Venomfang to be the more likely to play ball with the Cultists. Both favour survival too, so an alliance would be in the interests of Venomfang to allow him protection from any potential confrontation with Cryovain.
At least that's the logic in my head...by no means is that the best or definitive way to run it.
I'm running a similar campaign using materials from both adventures. In mine, I have Halia Thornton as the head of a family of wererats (unknown to all) in competition with the ridiculously named "Whiskered Gang" starting up their own family-based crime syndicate in the region (played as a mix of Sons of Anarchy/Sopranos/Breaking Bad themes). Venomfang is the daughter of Claugiyliamatar from the Kryptgarden Forest and has moved into the region hoping to start her own secret crime and espionage network similar to her mother's in Waterdeep. This makes her and the Thorntons natural allies. Cryovain has indeed chased the force out of the Icespire fortress, which provides another front of competition in the areas to the South as the cult of Talos seeks to recruit those who fled into their ranks (which can tie into a level-adjusted Storm Lord's Wrath et al. series once these are done). It's in Venom Fang/Thornton's and the area's best interests to; 1) eliminate Cryovain and 2) deal with the rising Talos cult issues (competitors for goods and funds as the cult intended to use the weather to influence trade in the region which messes with Thorntons'/Venomfang's future plans. I ditched the dragon cult as one cult in the area is enough, and Talos has more I can work with, and left Cryovain to be largely an idiot beast/force of chaos that can upset too many other front's plans.
Lost Mine of Phandelver has a young green dragon in Thunder Tree and Dragon of Icespire Peak has a young white dragon in the hold that shares the name of the module. For some context, I am running LMoP but added in DoIP to add to the things for the party to do. My plan is for once the party has secured Wave Echo Cave, there will be some downtime before things get turned on their head and I move over to running Tyranny of Dragons, replacing Greenest with Phandalin.
My question for the DMs who read this forum is that this seems to be REALLY really close to each other for two young, upstart dragons. I was already kind of playing the green dragon as an interloper looking to establish its lair after being ousted from its previous lair. I plan to have cultists replace the bandit mercenaries holed up in the gatehouse of Icespire Hold, since the Cult of the Dragon is actively recruiting dragons to their cause, would this alter their interactions at all?
If you want Cryovain to have been there longer you may want to give them a hoard and ditch the orcs.
Those are some solid points. I think I will adjust most of the encounters from orcs to goblins and hobgoblins to fit more of the vibe that of LMoP. I am also having The Spider be a mercenary hired by Talis The White as a play at gaining power and influence to try and convince Severin to name her the White Dragonspeaker.
I saw the same dragon vs dragon conflict, with Phandalin stuck in the middle. I don't think you have to really change anything, both of the adventures can be blended and (I think) it presents a much more robust region.
You'll have to do some encounter scaling when the characters get beyond L5 but I think it's a great way to add a lot of excitement and potential dragon politics. Two dragons can't be that close for long...
I'm actually running to two merged together myself for a new group. Best I figure is that Thundertree and Icespire Peak are around 60-70 miles apart. Now, sure that's not that far but it's still at least a considerable journey. Let's halve that though and say that they are going to hunt in a 30-mile radius of their lairs. Well, then there is plenty of prey and food within those six hexes for each dragon. So I don't see why there would need to be a territorial dispute unless absolutely necessary.
As others have pointed out though, they are both relatively new to the area so may not be aware of each other yet. The dragons probably don't even know what major threats exist in the area.
Personally, I'd have the Cult of the Dragon being tolerated in Icespire while Cryovain considers their offer. Given Cryovain's history in Forgotten Realms Lore, I'd probably have Cryovain plotting basically to eat the Cultists, because his past treatment at the hands of humanoids is not likely to make him want anything from them. He is after all described as 'dim witted and cruel'. I'd have him toying with the cultists. Likewise, of the two I would suggest Venomfang to be the more likely to play ball with the Cultists. Both favour survival too, so an alliance would be in the interests of Venomfang to allow him protection from any potential confrontation with Cryovain.
At least that's the logic in my head...by no means is that the best or definitive way to run it.
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I'm running a similar campaign using materials from both adventures. In mine, I have Halia Thornton as the head of a family of wererats (unknown to all) in competition with the ridiculously named "Whiskered Gang" starting up their own family-based crime syndicate in the region (played as a mix of Sons of Anarchy/Sopranos/Breaking Bad themes). Venomfang is the daughter of Claugiyliamatar from the Kryptgarden Forest and has moved into the region hoping to start her own secret crime and espionage network similar to her mother's in Waterdeep. This makes her and the Thorntons natural allies. Cryovain has indeed chased the force out of the Icespire fortress, which provides another front of competition in the areas to the South as the cult of Talos seeks to recruit those who fled into their ranks (which can tie into a level-adjusted Storm Lord's Wrath et al. series once these are done). It's in Venom Fang/Thornton's and the area's best interests to; 1) eliminate Cryovain and 2) deal with the rising Talos cult issues (competitors for goods and funds as the cult intended to use the weather to influence trade in the region which messes with Thorntons'/Venomfang's future plans. I ditched the dragon cult as one cult in the area is enough, and Talos has more I can work with, and left Cryovain to be largely an idiot beast/force of chaos that can upset too many other front's plans.