So I was reading through the monster manual yesterday, as one does, and looked over a monster called the revenant. I had seen it before but hadn't fully read through it's description. When I did, I was pleasantly surprised, as I saw that the revenant isn't just another variant of undead, but rather it's a soul bound to a body, unable to rest, looking for revenge. The most interesting thing about it though is that it said that after a revenant is created, it only has one year to find revenge and complete it's mission, otherwise it goes back to the afterlife. I find this incredibly cool, and think it would be a perfect template for a player character playing as a reborn. I think the reborn lineage is cool, but I also feel like it's kinda a way to cheat death after their original character dies. By having pcs come back as a revenant though, it would put a time limit on their player character, giving a sense of urgency, while not being entirely suffocating. I thought this was a cool idea, and I was wondering what your thoughts on it are.
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Quokkas are objectively the best animal, anyone who disagrees needs a psychiatric evaluation
Overall, this is exactly why the Reborn is kept so loose in its application - specifically so you could style it as anything from an animated body to a revenant to some other form of animation. Combined with some solid racial traits, they can make for interesting, fun characters with a whole range of options.
I think my personal biggest problem with it - Reborn is a tad less fun than the 4e Revenant playable race. 4e’s version was a blast - they were able to stay conscious if under 0 HP, could take feats giving them damage and defense boosts when under 0 HP, and basically played fast and loose with their life. You still had to make death saving throws each turn, and died died if you were half your maximum health under zero - but they rewarded an extremely risk “I’ll keep my health under zero to play at maximum efficacy” playstyle that was a hoot.
Overall, this is exactly why the Reborn is kept so loose in its application - specifically so you could style it as anything from an animated body to a revenant to some other form of animation. Combined with some solid racial traits, they can make for interesting, fun characters with a whole range of options.
I think my personal biggest problem with it - Reborn is a tad less fun than the 4e Revenant playable race. 4e’s version was a blast - they were able to stay conscious if under 0 HP, could take feats giving them damage and defense boosts when under 0 HP, and basically played fast and loose with their life. You still had to make death saving throws each turn, and died died if you were half your maximum health under zero - but they rewarded an extremely risk “I’ll keep my health under zero to play at maximum efficacy” playstyle that was a hoot.
That does sound pretty fascinating. Do you know where to find the Revenant race in the 4e sourcebooks? I think it would be pretty fun to adapt it to a 5e race.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quokkas are objectively the best animal, anyone who disagrees needs a psychiatric evaluation
Overall, this is exactly why the Reborn is kept so loose in its application - specifically so you could style it as anything from an animated body to a revenant to some other form of animation. Combined with some solid racial traits, they can make for interesting, fun characters with a whole range of options.
I think my personal biggest problem with it - Reborn is a tad less fun than the 4e Revenant playable race. 4e’s version was a blast - they were able to stay conscious if under 0 HP, could take feats giving them damage and defense boosts when under 0 HP, and basically played fast and loose with their life. You still had to make death saving throws each turn, and died died if you were half your maximum health under zero - but they rewarded an extremely risk “I’ll keep my health under zero to play at maximum efficacy” playstyle that was a hoot.
That does sound pretty fascinating. Do you know where to find the Revenant race in the 4e sourcebooks? I think it would be pretty fun to adapt it to a 5e race.
It was in the Heroes of Shadow book. It probably would involve a lot of changes - 5e isn’t really built around feats, so you would have to front load the feats which made it playable into the base race traits. Could probably do something like have two options you have to pick between either when you choose the race or whenever you go under 0 for first time in a turn - one which did defense (flavoured as the spirit trying to protect something even in death) and one of offence (angry vengeance spirit) - to keep it from being disproportionately good for a racial trait.
Overall, this is exactly why the Reborn is kept so loose in its application - specifically so you could style it as anything from an animated body to a revenant to some other form of animation. Combined with some solid racial traits, they can make for interesting, fun characters with a whole range of options.
I think my personal biggest problem with it - Reborn is a tad less fun than the 4e Revenant playable race. 4e’s version was a blast - they were able to stay conscious if under 0 HP, could take feats giving them damage and defense boosts when under 0 HP, and basically played fast and loose with their life. You still had to make death saving throws each turn, and died died if you were half your maximum health under zero - but they rewarded an extremely risk “I’ll keep my health under zero to play at maximum efficacy” playstyle that was a hoot.
That does sound pretty fascinating. Do you know where to find the Revenant race in the 4e sourcebooks? I think it would be pretty fun to adapt it to a 5e race.
It was in the Heroes of Shadow book. It probably would involve a lot of changes - 5e isn’t really built around feats, so you would have to front load the feats which made it playable into the base race traits. Could probably do something like have two options you have to pick between either when you choose the race or whenever you go under 0 for first time in a turn - one which did defense (flavoured as the spirit trying to protect something even in death) and one of offence (angry vengeance spirit) - to keep it from being disproportionately good for a racial trait.
That's a good idea. I like undead in general, and I think the idea of a resurrected creature bound on a mission is just really fun. Thanks for letting me know this exists though, I can't wait to look over it!
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Quokkas are objectively the best animal, anyone who disagrees needs a psychiatric evaluation
I think you're making some overlaps between the Revenant and the Reborn that aren't really there. The big distinctions are 1.) The Revenant is a being with a particular vendetta. A Reborn doesn't necessarily have that. In fact, a lot of Reborn are amnesiac over big chunks of their past lives. 2.) When a revenant is "killed" in combat while on it's vengeance quest, it comes back in 24 hours taking possession or reconstituting in a new form. That is not a feature of the Reborn.
A Reborn isn't a way for a player to "cheat" a PC's death, since the DM would have to allow for whatever process makes the PC a Reborn. A player can also start their character as a Reborn. Putting a one year limit on a Reborn I guess is fine for drama, but you're putting a expiration date on the character as whether or not the Revenant fulfills their quest, they crumble to dust either way. Then what? They roll a new character while the rest of the party keeps theirs? There's no real advantage over playing a Reborn than any other species in the game, so the one year thing seems to be a needlessly punitive thing, unless the player thinks it may be a good challenge or hook for their character, in which case have fun with it.
Incidentally, the Revenant was floated as a gothic lineage in UA sometime before the current gothic lineages were presented, it can still be pulled up in WotC archive of UA articles. I don't remember how they dealt with the time frame thing. But it seems like the Reborn was a way to play something like the Revenant without the strictures the Revenant directly adapted from the MM would hold.
In short using the Revenant as a way to theme a Reborn PC is a cool thing a PC and DM could do if they think it'd be good for their game, but I wouldn't make a blanket DM ruling that all Reborn have to work like Revenants.
EDIT: Since you were interested in the 4e Revenant player option, here's the UA template I remembered (I think this was for 5e):
I think you're making some overlaps between the Revenant and the Reborn that aren't really there. The big distinctions are 1.) The Revenant is a being with a particular vendetta. A Reborn doesn't necessarily have that. In fact, a lot of Reborn are amnesiac over big chunks of their past lives. 2.) When a revenant is "killed" in combat while on it's vengeance quest, it comes back in 24 hours taking possession or reconstituting in a new form. That is not a feature of the Reborn.
A Reborn isn't a way for a player to "cheat" a PC's death, since the DM would have to allow for whatever process makes the PC a Reborn. A player can also start their character as a Reborn. Putting a one year limit on a Reborn I guess is fine for drama, but you're putting a expiration date on the character as whether or not the Revenant fulfills their quest, they crumble to dust either way. Then what? They roll a new character while the rest of the party keeps theirs? There's no real advantage over playing a Reborn than any other species in the game, so the one year thing seems to be a needlessly punitive thing, unless the player thinks it may be a good challenge or hook for their character, in which case have fun with it.
Incidentally, the Revenant was floated as a gothic lineage in UA sometime before the current gothic lineages were presented, it can still be pulled up in WotC archive of UA articles. I don't remember how they dealt with the time frame thing. But it seems like the Reborn was a way to play something like the Revenant without the strictures the Revenant directly adapted from the MM would hold.
In short using the Revenant as a way to theme a Reborn PC is a cool thing a PC and DM could do if they think it'd be good for their game, but I wouldn't make a blanket DM ruling that all Reborn have to work like Revenants.
EDIT: Since you were interested in the 4e Revenant player option, here's the UA template I remembered (I think this was for 5e):
I'm not saying that every reborn in your game should be a revenant. I'm just saying if someone had their character die, then it might be worth considering letting them come back as a revenant using the stats of a reborn. I wouldn't force every reborn to be a revenant, as there are countless different ways reborns can be created. I just think it would be a cool idea to have a pc be a revenant. I also don't think being a reborn is a way to cheat death. I just feel being a reborn would give be a way for a character to come back in a way that makes sense, while also giving them a mission and a sense of purpose for them coming back. Also, I mentioned the year thing because I thought it was cool, not really because it'll play a huge part in your character. Most campaigns I play in don't last for more than a year, but it'll just add to the feeling of, I only have this much time to fulfill my purpose. This post was mostly just about a novel idea I had that I thought was fun, not some blanket restriction over everyone who wants to play a reborn.
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Quokkas are objectively the best animal, anyone who disagrees needs a psychiatric evaluation
Yes, the revenant is one among many gothic/horror/science fiction inspirations clearly reflected in the design of the lineage. The Reborn is arguably one of the most flexible character options in terms of how a player or table can interpret or theme it out of the box.
I would say the MM as written's relentless fixation on their vengeance would make a traditional party based game a little problematic as the nature of the revenant PC would be quite literally the driving force of the campaign. Revenants don't do "side quests" so to speak. Terminator not Mandalorian.
No worries, just wanted to reiterate it was there in case anyone is skimming the thread. It's definitely one of the more interesting UA proposals this edition.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
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So I was reading through the monster manual yesterday, as one does, and looked over a monster called the revenant. I had seen it before but hadn't fully read through it's description. When I did, I was pleasantly surprised, as I saw that the revenant isn't just another variant of undead, but rather it's a soul bound to a body, unable to rest, looking for revenge. The most interesting thing about it though is that it said that after a revenant is created, it only has one year to find revenge and complete it's mission, otherwise it goes back to the afterlife. I find this incredibly cool, and think it would be a perfect template for a player character playing as a reborn. I think the reborn lineage is cool, but I also feel like it's kinda a way to cheat death after their original character dies. By having pcs come back as a revenant though, it would put a time limit on their player character, giving a sense of urgency, while not being entirely suffocating. I thought this was a cool idea, and I was wondering what your thoughts on it are.
Quokkas are objectively the best animal, anyone who disagrees needs a psychiatric evaluation
Overall, this is exactly why the Reborn is kept so loose in its application - specifically so you could style it as anything from an animated body to a revenant to some other form of animation. Combined with some solid racial traits, they can make for interesting, fun characters with a whole range of options.
I think my personal biggest problem with it - Reborn is a tad less fun than the 4e Revenant playable race. 4e’s version was a blast - they were able to stay conscious if under 0 HP, could take feats giving them damage and defense boosts when under 0 HP, and basically played fast and loose with their life. You still had to make death saving throws each turn, and died died if you were half your maximum health under zero - but they rewarded an extremely risk “I’ll keep my health under zero to play at maximum efficacy” playstyle that was a hoot.
That does sound pretty fascinating. Do you know where to find the Revenant race in the 4e sourcebooks? I think it would be pretty fun to adapt it to a 5e race.
Quokkas are objectively the best animal, anyone who disagrees needs a psychiatric evaluation
It was in the Heroes of Shadow book. It probably would involve a lot of changes - 5e isn’t really built around feats, so you would have to front load the feats which made it playable into the base race traits. Could probably do something like have two options you have to pick between either when you choose the race or whenever you go under 0 for first time in a turn - one which did defense (flavoured as the spirit trying to protect something even in death) and one of offence (angry vengeance spirit) - to keep it from being disproportionately good for a racial trait.
That's a good idea. I like undead in general, and I think the idea of a resurrected creature bound on a mission is just really fun. Thanks for letting me know this exists though, I can't wait to look over it!
Quokkas are objectively the best animal, anyone who disagrees needs a psychiatric evaluation
I think you're making some overlaps between the Revenant and the Reborn that aren't really there. The big distinctions are 1.) The Revenant is a being with a particular vendetta. A Reborn doesn't necessarily have that. In fact, a lot of Reborn are amnesiac over big chunks of their past lives. 2.) When a revenant is "killed" in combat while on it's vengeance quest, it comes back in 24 hours taking possession or reconstituting in a new form. That is not a feature of the Reborn.
A Reborn isn't a way for a player to "cheat" a PC's death, since the DM would have to allow for whatever process makes the PC a Reborn. A player can also start their character as a Reborn. Putting a one year limit on a Reborn I guess is fine for drama, but you're putting a expiration date on the character as whether or not the Revenant fulfills their quest, they crumble to dust either way. Then what? They roll a new character while the rest of the party keeps theirs? There's no real advantage over playing a Reborn than any other species in the game, so the one year thing seems to be a needlessly punitive thing, unless the player thinks it may be a good challenge or hook for their character, in which case have fun with it.
Incidentally, the Revenant was floated as a gothic lineage in UA sometime before the current gothic lineages were presented, it can still be pulled up in WotC archive of UA articles. I don't remember how they dealt with the time frame thing. But it seems like the Reborn was a way to play something like the Revenant without the strictures the Revenant directly adapted from the MM would hold.
In short using the Revenant as a way to theme a Reborn PC is a cool thing a PC and DM could do if they think it'd be good for their game, but I wouldn't make a blanket DM ruling that all Reborn have to work like Revenants.
EDIT: Since you were interested in the 4e Revenant player option, here's the UA template I remembered (I think this was for 5e):
https://media.dnd.wizards.com/upload/articles/UA%20Gothic%20Characters.pdf
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I'm not saying that every reborn in your game should be a revenant. I'm just saying if someone had their character die, then it might be worth considering letting them come back as a revenant using the stats of a reborn. I wouldn't force every reborn to be a revenant, as there are countless different ways reborns can be created. I just think it would be a cool idea to have a pc be a revenant. I also don't think being a reborn is a way to cheat death. I just feel being a reborn would give be a way for a character to come back in a way that makes sense, while also giving them a mission and a sense of purpose for them coming back. Also, I mentioned the year thing because I thought it was cool, not really because it'll play a huge part in your character. Most campaigns I play in don't last for more than a year, but it'll just add to the feeling of, I only have this much time to fulfill my purpose. This post was mostly just about a novel idea I had that I thought was fun, not some blanket restriction over everyone who wants to play a reborn.
Quokkas are objectively the best animal, anyone who disagrees needs a psychiatric evaluation
Yes, the revenant is one among many gothic/horror/science fiction inspirations clearly reflected in the design of the lineage. The Reborn is arguably one of the most flexible character options in terms of how a player or table can interpret or theme it out of the box.
I would say the MM as written's relentless fixation on their vengeance would make a traditional party based game a little problematic as the nature of the revenant PC would be quite literally the driving force of the campaign. Revenants don't do "side quests" so to speak. Terminator not Mandalorian.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Look up the old Unearthed Arcana. There was a revenant race that was playtested (Vax in crit role was one after ep104?)
I put it in the thread a few posts up.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Doh, missed it!
No worries, just wanted to reiterate it was there in case anyone is skimming the thread. It's definitely one of the more interesting UA proposals this edition.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.