Hello everyone didn't know really where to post this but I need some advice on what to do or whether I should just move on from the game at this point. My DM has been running a Legacy of the Dragon Lords game for over 2 years every Saturday for about 3 hours sometimes going over if combat or character backstory related stuff pushes us a little over. Our party comp is a lore bard(me), a artificer(now Artificer/Wizard both narrative and party comp reasons), a wild magic sorcerer(now also part paladin also narrative and party reason), a sacrifice druid and a ranger. The ranger is a brand new player at the start and as you might expect needed reminding of how things functioned and how to make certain rolls which fine new player you kind come to expect that thinking they would learn over time through repetition, this unfortunately persisted for the first year of play after the DM sat down to make sure they were serious about the game coupled with the fact that he didn't get her full backstory until over a year later when campaign progression necessitated it be addressed for narrative reasons. Our party comp. had always been really odd and the module I made clear after about session three felt pretty gnarly for bringing in a fresh player.
It got to the point about 6 months in that they had a very video game mentality to play, splitting the party, antagonizing people they REALLY should not be like people on dragons while were all still level 3 just generally very VERY poor decision making after said dragon incident there was a DM to player off table meeting and a discussion at the table later just to make sure everything was copasetic. I had already surrendered the fact that I was going to have to(due to a lack of a dedicated healer and the challenge of the module coupled with bad play) change my original plan for my bard and start building to be psuedo healer/damage prevention bard which eh I can get creative with certain things and make it work. Fast forward to year 2.5 we are now level 7 our the artificer has focused more into being a tank with his construct and our wild magic sorcerer(bless his heart) due to being the bad roll king of the decade is now part paladin to make himself less killable and in a legendary chest piece and we've pretty much adjusted the party to compensate for a large degree of the weaknesses we had at the start. Now I have invisibility and rolled stupid well on my starting stats so I have a +7 in stealth to boot so in the current part of the story I have been intelligently scouting for the party in the dungeon we are. When we arrived at this point the DM made if very clear that the big bad that we are here to deal with has an army of over 300 goons so I had been trying to take lead and keep us as low profile as possible until we couldn't be.
Well today was the day of 'couldn't be' after clearing a pretty decent fight in one chamber and while the party was doing the murder hobo comb over of the room the ranger decided(while not telling the party) they were going to go scout around. Keep in mind I had already scouted out the rooms south of us already before we headed north into the current chamber, they do have pass without trace but the player decided to push there luck REAL hard(and the DM even admitted that after the session to them that they pushed there luck way more then they though the player would). Well as you might imagine ranger got spotted and managed to take out I think 2 goons before a 3rd ran off sounding the alarm and they ran back to the party leading the ensuing goon army directly to us cutting us off from escape of any kind in the process as they(I guess in an attempt to forestall the 300 strong army in there own house) cut the rope bridge leading to the dead end chamber we are now trapped in as they collapsed the tunnel behind us(at least our DM didn't attempt the old smoke out tactic I thought he was going to at first). This is not the first time that the ranger has gone off on there own and brought trouble back with them this is just the most dire and irrecoverable example as the DM has already implemented a narrative based mulligan of sorts(hes given us no real details on what that might look like but the assumption is pulling us out of the fire so to speak) for death for each player and even if the DM was letting us resurrect a dead player we are in a place where it would be impossible to recover his body(save our poor wild magic sorc. who ended up using his on session 1 but thats another story). Here in lies the quandary, bad rolls happen, TPK's happen I get that but now I'm in weird position as the character I'm playing.
My bard and the wild magic sorc. Before the campaign narratively had been traveling together as entertainers and due to my own backstory he is the closest thing the bard has to living family and in character would probably not only be devastate(again for narrative reasons) at losing the only person he had left that he considered family and would be pissed at the ranger for bringing the literal entire dungeon down on us and not even telling the party where they were wandering off too. I think at this point for the betterment of the party and to just to avoid having to RP out the anger my bard would have with the rangers cataclysmically(and consistently) poor decision making I have considered just not using my mulligan which sucks because I don't want to have to kill my character permanently after investing over 2 years. Sorry again for the long length but I really needed to get all that off my chest and would appreciate any any advice or ideas.
The obvious answer is “talk to them”, but it sounds like you’ve already tried.
At this point, you realistically have a few options.
One is another group discussion, with everyone present, where you clearly and explicitly explain to the ranger that their playstyle is the problem. Not hinting, not softening it. Their repeated solo scouting, reckless decisions, and antagonizing enemies have directly derailed the campaign and led to a very avoidable near-TPK. This kind of conversation is uncomfortable and can feel humiliating, but in my experience, players like this only change when the feedback is blunt and unmistakable. They either adjust, or they decide the game “isn’t for them” and leave on their own.
Another option is a conversation without the ranger present. It’s possible the rest of the group feels the same way, and you may collectively decide that removing the problem player is better than letting the campaign slowly die.
If you do continue playing with this person, I don’t see why you should refuse your mulligan. You didn’t cause this situation. You can absolutely roleplay the loss, survive, and have your character sever ties with the ranger’s character. They endangered the group recklessly and got someone you considered family killed. Kicking the character out of the party is a completely reasonable in-world consequence.
The obvious answer is “talk to them”, but it sounds like you’ve already tried.
At this point, you realistically have a few options.
One is another group discussion, with everyone present, where you clearly and explicitly explain to the ranger that their playstyle is the problem. Not hinting, not softening it. Their repeated solo scouting, reckless decisions, and antagonizing enemies have directly derailed the campaign and led to a very avoidable near-TPK. This kind of conversation is uncomfortable and can feel humiliating, but in my experience, players like this only change when the feedback is blunt and unmistakable. They either adjust, or they decide the game “isn’t for them” and leave on their own.
Another option is a conversation without the ranger present. It’s possible the rest of the group feels the same way, and you may collectively decide that removing the problem player is better than letting the campaign slowly die.
If you do continue playing with this person, I don’t see why you should refuse your mulligan. You didn’t cause this situation. You can absolutely roleplay the loss, survive, and have your character sever ties with the ranger’s character. They endangered the group recklessly and got someone you considered family killed. Kicking the character out of the party is a completely reasonable in-world consequence.
Thanks for your insight, I'll have to discuss what you mentioned with the DM and see what we can do. One of the the backend issues sadly is said player is the best friend of our druid so...thats gonna be awkward. But I will take your advice to heart and again appreciate you replying and will prepare for the worst but hope for the best like most things.
Half way through the second paragraph, my first thought take it to Crispi's Tavern, Dungeon Dodge, Crit Crab, and anyone else that does RPG horror stories.
If you still want to stay in the group, you may want to shelve the character unless you can think of RP ways to make this the start of a Rivalry. If done well we can have a Beastwars Ratrap and Dinobot kind of back and forth. The problem I am seeing is Ranger is treating this like they are the Doom Slayer on Easy mode when at this level, you are the imps and everything else is Hellknights.
Frankly that player needs to shape up, and not you. If this keeps going they may need to be kicked. Give them as many chances to recant and repent as you feel up to, and try to do some corrective criticism not out right blaming. Try to use I statements as this will make the Ranger feel less attacked. I feel like our cohesion needs more work, so can we strategies better as we can't deal with a swarm of enemies anymore?
It seems the DM is doing their job, but make sure there are still consequences to actions. The best part about Table Top RPG's its the character in your imagination that is suffering the consequences not the player. This can give people a chance to have a chance to see it, be empathetic to it, without needing a spear to the face.
What about reviving your old character as a Reborn from the Van Rictor's Guide to Raven Loft book?
This is just me being dramatic, but I make this the second act break down. As soon as they get out of immediate danger, have your clock the ranger, no rolls. if the DM pushes it, have your guy break the 4th wall a bit and curse the gods, then turn back his attention to the Ranger. Pick your favorite UK based movie, and use that to inspire a tiraid about how him being reckless was always a problem, and now a guy died. “He’d be here right saying (insert something he’d say about getting out of a bad situation), and now hes DEAD!!” then start walking off.
“where you giong?”
you: “anywhere. If I have to look at him any longer I’m gonna kill him myself”.
and if anyone says sorry, the retort is “sorry doesn’t bring ‘Mikey’ back.”
then your bard walks off to cool off.
This RPs the point across, lets you vent, and leaves things opened to get resolved how ever you guys think works. It’ll spot light the player, but its needed at this point. If the Sorc is up for it, have him roll a temp character and spend a couple of sessions on a side quest to bring the Sorcerer back. Seeking out a priest or item that’ll retrieve the body without having to go back in to get it. And give the ranger a chance shape up with the consequences hanging over him for a bit.
Half way through the second paragraph, my first thought take it to Crispi's Tavern, Dungeon Dodge, Crit Crab, and anyone else that does RPG horror stories.
If you still want to stay in the group, you may want to shelve the character unless you can think of RP ways to make this the start of a Rivalry. If done well we can have a Beastwars Ratrap and Dinobot kind of back and forth. The problem I am seeing is Ranger is treating this like they are the Doom Slayer on Easy mode when at this level, you are the imps and everything else is Hellknights.
Frankly that player needs to shape up, and not you. If this keeps going they may need to be kicked. Give them as many chances to recant and repent as you feel up to, and try to do some corrective criticism not out right blaming. Try to use I statements as this will make the Ranger feel less attacked. I feel like our cohesion needs more work, so can we strategies better as we can't deal with a swarm of enemies anymore?
It seems the DM is doing their job, but make sure there are still consequences to actions. The best part about Table Top RPG's its the character in your imagination that is suffering the consequences not the player. This can give people a chance to have a chance to see it, be empathetic to it, without needing a spear to the face.
What about reviving your old character as a Reborn from the Van Rictor's Guide to Raven Loft book?
Definitely been an issue with communication and cohesion for sure I confirmed in a minor sit down that the DM and the ranger did not tell anyone what they were doing before wandering off(wanted to make sure I had my facts straight). I would be willing to try to RP it out the fallout if it comes to a TPK and honestly the Wizard said if he died hes gonna bring a full blown paladin in. Tonight were having a roundtable in discord to make stakes very clear and strategize what we can do, I have some ideas. I think its because this is my longest running character that I really want to try to save this if I can I just worry about the Ranger who is a little sensitive and since this isn't the first time something like this has happened its just before I think the DM took pity on us before and might take it very personally no matter how gently we push the point home thank you for replying with your insight. I'll make sure to post when everything settles.
This is just me being dramatic, but I make this the second act break down. As soon as they get out of immediate danger, have your clock the ranger, no rolls. if the DM pushes it, have your guy break the 4th wall a bit and curse the gods, then turn back his attention to the Ranger. Pick your favorite UK based movie, and use that to inspire a tiraid about how him being reckless was always a problem, and now a guy died. “He’d be here right saying (insert something he’d say about getting out of a bad situation), and now hes DEAD!!” then start walking off.
“where you giong?”
you: “anywhere. If I have to look at him any longer I’m gonna kill him myself”.
and if anyone says sorry, the retort is “sorry doesn’t bring ‘Mikey’ back.”
then your bard walks off to cool off.
This RPs the point across, lets you vent, and leaves things opened to get resolved how ever you guys think works. It’ll spot light the player, but its needed at this point. If the Sorc is up for it, have him roll a temp character and spend a couple of sessions on a side quest to bring the Sorcerer back. Seeking out a priest or item that’ll retrieve the body without having to go back in to get it. And give the ranger a chance shape up with the consequences hanging over him for a bit.
Yeah if I choose to stay and use my mulligan there will definitely be something like that I would RP out, sadly DM made if very clear that after the mulligan is used the next death that's it. Its not a DM being jerk thing as a narrative device thing, as said above Wizard is more then ok with bringing a full paladin should he die I just worry about the fallout of the new player Ranger not taking being the cause of a TPK well and then having to handle the RP consequences of that fallout should it come to pass because my Bard is basically the Loki of the party always finding ways to make things entertaining so them having to see the 'when a good man goes to war' side of that character may or may not go over well depending on how things land. I won't be a ass about it but I will have to make it clear as the character the severity of the breach of trust that led to it all. I will post once everything settles which will be after this Saturday, thank you for the reply and the ideas. =)
Ok sorry for the delay on update, so good news we were able to escape from our cavern based entrapment after our strategy session the night before, and after that I popped tiny hut so everyone could take a long rest and sorta went over in character what happened which we will likely have to readress once we finish the dungeon proper. But after exfiltrating we re-infiltrated and are currently dealing with the big bads cronies as between me dropping a fireball on the room and our Wild Magic Palidan we almost killed him in 2 rounds. We had to span it all over two 3 hours sessions one our regular time and the other the following night since we lost so much ground before but the DM says we are very close to finding what we came here for and I already have a plan in place to get us out that should evade most further confrontation as I took the big bads symbol of authority and I know disguise self so we will see how that all rolls. Thanks again for everyone's help and feedback on navigating this situation and you all have a good rest of your week.
Hello everyone didn't know really where to post this but I need some advice on what to do or whether I should just move on from the game at this point. My DM has been running a Legacy of the Dragon Lords game for over 2 years every Saturday for about 3 hours sometimes going over if combat or character backstory related stuff pushes us a little over. Our party comp is a lore bard(me), a artificer(now Artificer/Wizard both narrative and party comp reasons), a wild magic sorcerer(now also part paladin also narrative and party reason), a sacrifice druid and a ranger. The ranger is a brand new player at the start and as you might expect needed reminding of how things functioned and how to make certain rolls which fine new player you kind come to expect that thinking they would learn over time through repetition, this unfortunately persisted for the first year of play after the DM sat down to make sure they were serious about the game coupled with the fact that he didn't get her full backstory until over a year later when campaign progression necessitated it be addressed for narrative reasons. Our party comp. had always been really odd and the module I made clear after about session three felt pretty gnarly for bringing in a fresh player.
It got to the point about 6 months in that they had a very video game mentality to play, splitting the party, antagonizing people they REALLY should not be like people on dragons while were all still level 3 just generally very VERY poor decision making after said dragon incident there was a DM to player off table meeting and a discussion at the table later just to make sure everything was copasetic. I had already surrendered the fact that I was going to have to(due to a lack of a dedicated healer and the challenge of the module coupled with bad play) change my original plan for my bard and start building to be psuedo healer/damage prevention bard which eh I can get creative with certain things and make it work. Fast forward to year 2.5 we are now level 7 our the artificer has focused more into being a tank with his construct and our wild magic sorcerer(bless his heart) due to being the bad roll king of the decade is now part paladin to make himself less killable and in a legendary chest piece and we've pretty much adjusted the party to compensate for a large degree of the weaknesses we had at the start. Now I have invisibility and rolled stupid well on my starting stats so I have a +7 in stealth to boot so in the current part of the story I have been intelligently scouting for the party in the dungeon we are. When we arrived at this point the DM made if very clear that the big bad that we are here to deal with has an army of over 300 goons so I had been trying to take lead and keep us as low profile as possible until we couldn't be.
Well today was the day of 'couldn't be' after clearing a pretty decent fight in one chamber and while the party was doing the murder hobo comb over of the room the ranger decided(while not telling the party) they were going to go scout around. Keep in mind I had already scouted out the rooms south of us already before we headed north into the current chamber, they do have pass without trace but the player decided to push there luck REAL hard(and the DM even admitted that after the session to them that they pushed there luck way more then they though the player would). Well as you might imagine ranger got spotted and managed to take out I think 2 goons before a 3rd ran off sounding the alarm and they ran back to the party leading the ensuing goon army directly to us cutting us off from escape of any kind in the process as they(I guess in an attempt to forestall the 300 strong army in there own house) cut the rope bridge leading to the dead end chamber we are now trapped in as they collapsed the tunnel behind us(at least our DM didn't attempt the old smoke out tactic I thought he was going to at first). This is not the first time that the ranger has gone off on there own and brought trouble back with them this is just the most dire and irrecoverable example as the DM has already implemented a narrative based mulligan of sorts(hes given us no real details on what that might look like but the assumption is pulling us out of the fire so to speak) for death for each player and even if the DM was letting us resurrect a dead player we are in a place where it would be impossible to recover his body(save our poor wild magic sorc. who ended up using his on session 1 but thats another story). Here in lies the quandary, bad rolls happen, TPK's happen I get that but now I'm in weird position as the character I'm playing.
My bard and the wild magic sorc. Before the campaign narratively had been traveling together as entertainers and due to my own backstory he is the closest thing the bard has to living family and in character would probably not only be devastate(again for narrative reasons) at losing the only person he had left that he considered family and would be pissed at the ranger for bringing the literal entire dungeon down on us and not even telling the party where they were wandering off too. I think at this point for the betterment of the party and to just to avoid having to RP out the anger my bard would have with the rangers cataclysmically(and consistently) poor decision making I have considered just not using my mulligan which sucks because I don't want to have to kill my character permanently after investing over 2 years. Sorry again for the long length but I really needed to get all that off my chest and would appreciate any any advice or ideas.
The obvious answer is “talk to them”, but it sounds like you’ve already tried.
At this point, you realistically have a few options.
One is another group discussion, with everyone present, where you clearly and explicitly explain to the ranger that their playstyle is the problem. Not hinting, not softening it. Their repeated solo scouting, reckless decisions, and antagonizing enemies have directly derailed the campaign and led to a very avoidable near-TPK. This kind of conversation is uncomfortable and can feel humiliating, but in my experience, players like this only change when the feedback is blunt and unmistakable. They either adjust, or they decide the game “isn’t for them” and leave on their own.
Another option is a conversation without the ranger present. It’s possible the rest of the group feels the same way, and you may collectively decide that removing the problem player is better than letting the campaign slowly die.
If you do continue playing with this person, I don’t see why you should refuse your mulligan. You didn’t cause this situation. You can absolutely roleplay the loss, survive, and have your character sever ties with the ranger’s character. They endangered the group recklessly and got someone you considered family killed. Kicking the character out of the party is a completely reasonable in-world consequence.
Thanks for your insight, I'll have to discuss what you mentioned with the DM and see what we can do. One of the the backend issues sadly is said player is the best friend of our druid so...thats gonna be awkward. But I will take your advice to heart and again appreciate you replying and will prepare for the worst but hope for the best like most things.
Put this on speechify
What Blue Medow Said
Half way through the second paragraph, my first thought take it to Crispi's Tavern, Dungeon Dodge, Crit Crab, and anyone else that does RPG horror stories.
If you still want to stay in the group, you may want to shelve the character unless you can think of RP ways to make this the start of a Rivalry. If done well we can have a Beastwars Ratrap and Dinobot kind of back and forth. The problem I am seeing is Ranger is treating this like they are the Doom Slayer on Easy mode when at this level, you are the imps and everything else is Hellknights.
Frankly that player needs to shape up, and not you. If this keeps going they may need to be kicked. Give them as many chances to recant and repent as you feel up to, and try to do some corrective criticism not out right blaming. Try to use I statements as this will make the Ranger feel less attacked. I feel like our cohesion needs more work, so can we strategies better as we can't deal with a swarm of enemies anymore?
It seems the DM is doing their job, but make sure there are still consequences to actions. The best part about Table Top RPG's its the character in your imagination that is suffering the consequences not the player. This can give people a chance to have a chance to see it, be empathetic to it, without needing a spear to the face.
What about reviving your old character as a Reborn from the Van Rictor's Guide to Raven Loft book?
This is just me being dramatic, but I make this the second act break down. As soon as they get out of immediate danger, have your clock the ranger, no rolls. if the DM pushes it, have your guy break the 4th wall a bit and curse the gods, then turn back his attention to the Ranger. Pick your favorite UK based movie, and use that to inspire a tiraid about how him being reckless was always a problem, and now a guy died. “He’d be here right saying (insert something he’d say about getting out of a bad situation), and now hes DEAD!!” then start walking off.
“where you giong?”
you: “anywhere. If I have to look at him any longer I’m gonna kill him myself”.
and if anyone says sorry, the retort is “sorry doesn’t bring ‘Mikey’ back.”
then your bard walks off to cool off.
This RPs the point across, lets you vent, and leaves things opened to get resolved how ever you guys think works. It’ll spot light the player, but its needed at this point. If the Sorc is up for it, have him roll a temp character and spend a couple of sessions on a side quest to bring the Sorcerer back. Seeking out a priest or item that’ll retrieve the body without having to go back in to get it. And give the ranger a chance shape up with the consequences hanging over him for a bit.
Definitely been an issue with communication and cohesion for sure I confirmed in a minor sit down that the DM and the ranger did not tell anyone what they were doing before wandering off(wanted to make sure I had my facts straight). I would be willing to try to RP it out the fallout if it comes to a TPK and honestly the Wizard said if he died hes gonna bring a full blown paladin in. Tonight were having a roundtable in discord to make stakes very clear and strategize what we can do, I have some ideas. I think its because this is my longest running character that I really want to try to save this if I can I just worry about the Ranger who is a little sensitive and since this isn't the first time something like this has happened its just before I think the DM took pity on us before and might take it very personally no matter how gently we push the point home thank you for replying with your insight. I'll make sure to post when everything settles.
Yeah if I choose to stay and use my mulligan there will definitely be something like that I would RP out, sadly DM made if very clear that after the mulligan is used the next death that's it. Its not a DM being jerk thing as a narrative device thing, as said above Wizard is more then ok with bringing a full paladin should he die I just worry about the fallout of the new player Ranger not taking being the cause of a TPK well and then having to handle the RP consequences of that fallout should it come to pass because my Bard is basically the Loki of the party always finding ways to make things entertaining so them having to see the 'when a good man goes to war' side of that character may or may not go over well depending on how things land. I won't be a ass about it but I will have to make it clear as the character the severity of the breach of trust that led to it all. I will post once everything settles which will be after this Saturday, thank you for the reply and the ideas. =)
Ok sorry for the delay on update, so good news we were able to escape from our cavern based entrapment after our strategy session the night before, and after that I popped tiny hut so everyone could take a long rest and sorta went over in character what happened which we will likely have to readress once we finish the dungeon proper. But after exfiltrating we re-infiltrated and are currently dealing with the big bads cronies as between me dropping a fireball on the room and our Wild Magic Palidan we almost killed him in 2 rounds. We had to span it all over two 3 hours sessions one our regular time and the other the following night since we lost so much ground before but the DM says we are very close to finding what we came here for and I already have a plan in place to get us out that should evade most further confrontation as I took the big bads symbol of authority and I know disguise self so we will see how that all rolls. Thanks again for everyone's help and feedback on navigating this situation and you all have a good rest of your week.