I’ve been designing a General Grievous-inspired warforged character, and I wanted to make a subrace to give him four arms. I’m pretty new to homebrew, so I was wondering what people thought of it balance-wise and any suggestions people may have.
*Update: Yurei1453 suggested many changes from the original post. Any similarities between their post and the one are their ideas. Thanks!
“You must be attuned to your extra pair of arms in order to gain their effects. When not attuned, the extra arms fit seamlessly into your original pair.
You may now hold up to four objects, including weapons. You cannot gain the benefits of multiple shields, wield multiple two-handed weapons, or gain the benefits of a shield while wielding a two-handed weapon or dual-wielding. The normal rules of dual-wielding still apply.
You may interact with up to four objects instead of only one using a single object interaction.
Because of the unusual shape of your body, you cannot wear gloves, armor, or any other wearable equipment besides rings, necklaces, bracelets, anklets, belts, capes, and cloaks unless they were specifically designed for you.”
Any feedback on balance or new ideas and changes are appreciated.
This honestly feels more like something one should do with a subrace, rather than a feat. I know that's a nitpicky distinction, especially since I'm normally hugely in favor of using custom feats to simulate basically everything since every ability in the game can be seen as a feat, but warforged are stacked to the nines already. It feels to me like this would work better under either a variation of the Envoy rules or as its own Skirmisher redux rather than simply a feat bolted onto an existing warforged.
That said: The ability to hold/manipulate four things at once is an enormous advantage, especially if this warforged ends up a spellcaster. I don't believe it will (monk, ne?), but being able to hold two spellcasting instruments, a shield, and still have a hand free for somatic gestures would be ridiculous. Even for non-spellcasters, being able to hold weapon, weapon (for dual-wield bonuses), shield, and Utility Item is a huge boon. This warforged could hold a torch without impacting its fighting abilities at all, or any number of useful magical utility items most people store in combat - to say nothing of being able to wield a bow or crossbow without having to sacrifice melee weaponry. No amount of hedging around it would mean this warforged is not at a hefty advantage.
If your DM is okay with that? Then cool. But what I'd do first of all is nix the dexterity-based grappling. Clone Wars Grievious was an extremely nimble and dexterous fighter, yes, but he was also incredibly strong. Primarily in the legs, which is what he used to grapple, but the strength in any given leg was easily enough to overpower his targets. Dexterity is already overloaded as a stat; adding grappling checks to it for something with double the grappling ability of a normal PC strikes me as too much.
The disadvantage on con saves is quite thematic for Grievous himself given the damage he's sustained (which is weird; why has nobody repaired him?); if your warforged has been similarly damaged it's a nice flavor drawback. Elsewise it seems a little weird. Recalling that Grievous was intentionally built as an overpowered nightmare machine Jedi Hunter (and that I'm almost entirely sure this is built on Monk), it's going to be difficult to limit the character in ways that are appropriate and sensible without arbitrary nonsense.
One thing you might consider is "Inhuman Build: Grievous cannot wear cloaks or robes, nor benefit from the effects of magical gloves, gauntlets or bracers, due to the unusual design of his torso and arms." Limiting the magical shenanery the character can get up to might be a drawback, especially since it'd preclude Bracers of Defense and help deal with the Ludicrous Warforged AC issue. Don't know if that limitation's meaningful either, but you're likely going to have to negotiate this one with your DM anyways. Throwing ideas out there for you.
Thanks for the suggestions and ideas! I’ll see if I can make a decent subrace based on the envoy or skirmisher but with four arms and fewer bonuses. Maybe an inability to use gloves and such.
I see your point about the Dex grappling and stuff though. I guess I’ll change the character a bit to have more room for strength. He was actually going to be a battle master fighter with a few swashbuckler rouge levels wielding two rapiers and two short swords, but I’ll look into a monk, it seems like it might work even better, though I don’t see Grievous as someone especially wise.
Lastly, I’ve thought of a replacement for (or addition to?) the Con save disadvantage. What if the extra arms required attunement as a pair? Or maybe attunement for each arm? That could greatly decrease his ability to abuse a ton of magic items. Anyway, thanks for the feedback, I’ll probably update the original post soon.
*edit: updated original post as a sub race instead of a feat, limits on wearable gear, removal of Dex grappling/shoving, removal of Con disadvantage, and an attunement requirement.
I made a pdf of the concept of a four-armed warforged. Linked this to a reddit article here. Included things such as firearm use, getting an extra attack, limiting the "Dual-Wielding" feat, adding a bonus action requirement for unsheathing more than 2 weapons/items, etc. Let me know your thoughts!
With my Warforged character who will soon become a warlord with an army of robots I wanted to get a General Grievous vibe going myself and so asked my GM if I’d be able to use the Prothsetic Limb magic item from Eberron: Rising from the Last War to give myself to new arms. He allowed it as he also thought it would be pretty cool for a LOTR General Grievous to overthrow the king.
if you have four arms your strength bonus for each arm should be halved (same thing for dex) this means you can't hold the same amount in one hand if you have four, than if you had two. you can't hold an extra shield. yes you do get extra attacks but you get disadvantage because of the extra arms
Didn't read every post to tailor my comment, but I would recommend referring to the Simic Hybrid race for balance and power. They have the ability to grow an extra set of limbs that can be used to grapple and as natural weapons, but lack the dexterity to wield manufactured weapons or specialized equipment.
Didn't read every post to tailor my comment, but I would recommend referring to the Simic Hybrid race for balance and power. They have the ability to grow an extra set of limbs that can be used to grapple and as natural weapons, but lack the dexterity to wield manufactured weapons or specialized equipment.
I completely agree with this statement! If need be, flavor and rule of cool can always be applied.
Have three attacks?
Flavor the bludgeoning damage as the weapon type damage. Want to argue that a tentacle/claw can hold stuff?
Fair, it can hold your bag open while you use your fingers to properly use items out of it.
Want that sweet, sweet ability to dual wielding versatile weapons?
Rule that the dual wielder feat is essential, is a D10 over a D8 really that bad?
i agree that two handed weapons themselves shouldn’t be dual wielded for the simple fact that feats would break the players character in strange ways. Given the right class combination though, I could see a whole lot of simple flavoring working with the Simic Hybrid.
The player loses the whole no sleep thing, but if that type of flavor is important too, then you could always grant the player those abilities. You could even skin the Simic Hybrid to be some experimental Warforged.
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I’ve been designing a General Grievous-inspired warforged character, and I wanted to make a subrace to give him four arms. I’m pretty new to homebrew, so I was wondering what people thought of it balance-wise and any suggestions people may have.
*Update: Yurei1453 suggested many changes from the original post. Any similarities between their post and the one are their ideas. Thanks!
“You must be attuned to your extra pair of arms in order to gain their effects. When not attuned, the extra arms fit seamlessly into your original pair.
You may now hold up to four objects, including weapons. You cannot gain the benefits of multiple shields, wield multiple two-handed weapons, or gain the benefits of a shield while wielding a two-handed weapon or dual-wielding. The normal rules of dual-wielding still apply.
You may interact with up to four objects instead of only one using a single object interaction.
Because of the unusual shape of your body, you cannot wear gloves, armor, or any other wearable equipment besides rings, necklaces, bracelets, anklets, belts, capes, and cloaks unless they were specifically designed for you.”
Any feedback on balance or new ideas and changes are appreciated.
This honestly feels more like something one should do with a subrace, rather than a feat. I know that's a nitpicky distinction, especially since I'm normally hugely in favor of using custom feats to simulate basically everything since every ability in the game can be seen as a feat, but warforged are stacked to the nines already. It feels to me like this would work better under either a variation of the Envoy rules or as its own Skirmisher redux rather than simply a feat bolted onto an existing warforged.
That said:
The ability to hold/manipulate four things at once is an enormous advantage, especially if this warforged ends up a spellcaster. I don't believe it will (monk, ne?), but being able to hold two spellcasting instruments, a shield, and still have a hand free for somatic gestures would be ridiculous. Even for non-spellcasters, being able to hold weapon, weapon (for dual-wield bonuses), shield, and Utility Item is a huge boon. This warforged could hold a torch without impacting its fighting abilities at all, or any number of useful magical utility items most people store in combat - to say nothing of being able to wield a bow or crossbow without having to sacrifice melee weaponry. No amount of hedging around it would mean this warforged is not at a hefty advantage.
If your DM is okay with that? Then cool. But what I'd do first of all is nix the dexterity-based grappling. Clone Wars Grievious was an extremely nimble and dexterous fighter, yes, but he was also incredibly strong. Primarily in the legs, which is what he used to grapple, but the strength in any given leg was easily enough to overpower his targets. Dexterity is already overloaded as a stat; adding grappling checks to it for something with double the grappling ability of a normal PC strikes me as too much.
The disadvantage on con saves is quite thematic for Grievous himself given the damage he's sustained (which is weird; why has nobody repaired him?); if your warforged has been similarly damaged it's a nice flavor drawback. Elsewise it seems a little weird. Recalling that Grievous was intentionally built as an overpowered nightmare machine Jedi Hunter (and that I'm almost entirely sure this is built on Monk), it's going to be difficult to limit the character in ways that are appropriate and sensible without arbitrary nonsense.
One thing you might consider is "Inhuman Build: Grievous cannot wear cloaks or robes, nor benefit from the effects of magical gloves, gauntlets or bracers, due to the unusual design of his torso and arms." Limiting the magical shenanery the character can get up to might be a drawback, especially since it'd preclude Bracers of Defense and help deal with the Ludicrous Warforged AC issue. Don't know if that limitation's meaningful either, but you're likely going to have to negotiate this one with your DM anyways. Throwing ideas out there for you.
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Thanks for the suggestions and ideas! I’ll see if I can make a decent subrace based on the envoy or skirmisher but with four arms and fewer bonuses. Maybe an inability to use gloves and such.
I see your point about the Dex grappling and stuff though. I guess I’ll change the character a bit to have more room for strength. He was actually going to be a battle master fighter with a few swashbuckler rouge levels wielding two rapiers and two short swords, but I’ll look into a monk, it seems like it might work even better, though I don’t see Grievous as someone especially wise.
Lastly, I’ve thought of a replacement for (or addition to?) the Con save disadvantage. What if the extra arms required attunement as a pair? Or maybe attunement for each arm? That could greatly decrease his ability to abuse a ton of magic items. Anyway, thanks for the feedback, I’ll probably update the original post soon.
*edit: updated original post as a sub race instead of a feat, limits on wearable gear, removal of Dex grappling/shoving, removal of Con disadvantage, and an attunement requirement.
I made a pdf of the concept of a four-armed warforged. Linked this to a reddit article here. Included things such as firearm use, getting an extra attack, limiting the "Dual-Wielding" feat, adding a bonus action requirement for unsheathing more than 2 weapons/items, etc. Let me know your thoughts!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H4VNmsnbwD9lhVqPkUDgPADs2WrIWLJZ/view?usp=sharing
With my Warforged character who will soon become a warlord with an army of robots I wanted to get a General Grievous vibe going myself and so asked my GM if I’d be able to use the Prothsetic Limb magic item from Eberron: Rising from the Last War to give myself to new arms. He allowed it as he also thought it would be pretty cool for a LOTR General Grievous to overthrow the king.
if you have four arms your strength bonus for each arm should be halved (same thing for dex) this means you can't hold the same amount in one hand if you have four, than if you had two. you can't hold an extra shield. yes you do get extra attacks but you get disadvantage because of the extra arms
Didn't read every post to tailor my comment, but I would recommend referring to the Simic Hybrid race for balance and power. They have the ability to grow an extra set of limbs that can be used to grapple and as natural weapons, but lack the dexterity to wield manufactured weapons or specialized equipment.
I completely agree with this statement! If need be, flavor and rule of cool can always be applied.
Have three attacks?
Flavor the bludgeoning damage as the weapon type damage.
Want to argue that a tentacle/claw can hold stuff?
Fair, it can hold your bag open while you use your fingers to properly use items out of it.
Want that sweet, sweet ability to dual wielding versatile weapons?
Rule that the dual wielder feat is essential, is a D10 over a D8 really that bad?
i agree that two handed weapons themselves shouldn’t be dual wielded for the simple fact that feats would break the players character in strange ways. Given the right class combination though, I could see a whole lot of simple flavoring working with the Simic Hybrid.
The player loses the whole no sleep thing, but if that type of flavor is important too, then you could always grant the player those abilities. You could even skin the Simic Hybrid to be some experimental Warforged.