Hey and thanks in advance for checking this out. I really wanted to make a Paladin subclass that got Spirit Guardians and concentrated, at least in part, on making the most of that spell. With that in mind, you'll see abilities that slow enemies or make them fall prone to keep them close to you, along with basically all the spells with the word Spirit in the title. I'm stuck on the level 15 ability and would welcome suggestions. My first thought would be for the spirits to basically grant you the Shield Master feat (with some spirit-y reflavoring of the text) but I'm worried that's too strong for a subclass ability. Thoughts? Also some of the oath spells such as Dimension Door and Destructive Wave weren't totally on theme but I didn't see anything I thought fit better. Again would love feedback and suggestions.
Without further ado, I present the Oath of Ancestral Spirits:
The Oath of Ancestral Spirits binds a paladin to those that have come before. These paladins honor the bravery and contributions of anyone who strove to leave the world better than they found it, fellow paladin or otherwise. They routinely seek out historical records of such figures and relish in being told the legends of folk heroes in small town pubs. Armed with the knowledge of the victories as well as the missteps of their forebearers, these paladins fight on against evil and oppression for the good of those yet to come.
Tenets of the Ancestral Spirits
Though the exact words and strictures of the Oath of Ancestral Spirits vary, paladins of this oath share these tenets.
Knowledge. It is through knowledge of deeds and misstesps of our forebearers that we can better serve the world today.
Honor. All those who came before us deserve our respect, be they noble or lowborn, heroic or commonplace.
Remembrance. Gravesites are a place of importance and honor. Take the time to treat them as such.
Life. Do not get lost in the past. Learn from it, honor it, but live your life with joy and vigor and create a better world for those who will look back to you.
Oath Spells
You gain oath spells at the paladin levels listed in the Oath of Ancestral Spirits table. See the Sacred Oath class feature for how oath spells work.
When you take this oath at 3rd level, you gain the following two Channel Divinity options. See the Sacred Oath class feature for how Channel Divinity works.
Spiritual Ambush.You can use your Channel Divinity to call forth the spectral visages of the ancestors of your enemies. As an action, summon ancestral spirits to harry chosen creatures within 30 ft. forcing them to make a DEX saving throw (DC {{savedc:cha}}) or fall prone. Undead have disadvantage on this saving throw.
Ancestral Might. You can use your Channel Divinity to call upon the fortitude of your ancestors. As an action, you can choose a number of creatures you can see within 30 feet of you, up to a number equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum of one creature). For 1 minute, you and the chosen creatures have advantage on Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution saving throws.
Aura of Impedance
Starting at 7th level, the spirits of your ancestors impede your enemies while you’re not incapacitated. The aura extends 10 feet from you in every direction.
While within the aura, all hostile creatures have their speed reduced by 10 feet until the start of their next turn.
At 18th level, the range of this aura increases to 30 feet.
lvl15 Placeholder
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Avatar of the Ancestors
At 20th level, your connection to the ancestors is beyond compare. As an action, you can magically summon a spirit to fight by your side, gaining the following benefits for 1 minute:
You gain +2 to your AC.
When you take the Attack action on your turn, your summoned spirit can make one attack as part of that action. They do so with a weapon, stats, and any applicable features identical to your own, though all damage dealt by this attack is radiant.
Your summoned spirit distracts your enemies, allowing you to move freely without provoking attacks of opportunity.
Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a long rest.
It's looking good so far IMO; I don't have any immediate suggestion for level 15, but just a couple of quick things to note for now:
You've used a snippet code in your description for Spiritual Ambush; these only work within the snippet box (for displaying on the character sheet), descriptions usually list how the save is calculated, e.g- "Dexterity saving throw against your spell save DC".
The Aura of Impedance should probably clarify when the speed is reduced. For example "Hostile creatures that start their turn within the aura, or enter it for the first time on their turn, reduce their speed by 10 feet. So they'd lose remaining movement distance for entering the aura, or be slow even if they start there and leave it on their turn?
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Thanks for the input! I definitely didn't fully understand the distinction between the description box and the snippet box but now I do! Probably would have just taken a little reading somewhere on my part.
And the Aura yeah I went back and forth a few times on the specific wording but yes the intention is that even if they make it out of the Aura, they don't get back to full speed until they begin a turn outside of it. I don't want forced or willing reaction movement, such as the Scout Rogue's Skirmisher feature that lets them move half their speed as a reaction, to get out of the speed reduction, though. Part of me wonders if that's too much of a fringe case to worry about the but perfectionist in me WANTS TO MAKE IT RIGHT while also having it worded concisely.
Oath of Conquest is the only official Oath with a debuff aura and I want it to feel similar. Like even if the Paladin walks up to an enemy or an enemy is forcefully moved to within the aura, they get affected by it no matter what...but then what happens if the paladin walks away? Obviously the enemy gets their move speed back on their turn but what about reaction movement before their next turn. It should probably be at full speed if they begin their movement outside of the aura.
It would probably be easier to scrap the "10 foot reduction until the next turn" in favor of using the same language as Spirit Guardians "An affected creature's speed is halved in the area". This would make it scale in power with enemy speed but...meh? For a creature with a standard speed of 30, its 5 more feet of reduction than the original plan. And then when they do get out of it, they're free instead of somehow still being bogged down despite escaping.
Thank you for coming on this train of thought with me. I also started implementing the Shield Master feat as the level 15 ability and it was kind of a lot of finicky things and I thought, what do I really want here? I want Evasion. So I just made it Evasion. Too strong? Maybe. But I like the visual of these spirits wrapped around you absorbing damage. And at level 15, DCs are gonna be high and a Paladin's Dex save won't be amazing, so it'll usually just be half damage with an exciting "no damage" every now and then.
Level 15: Spirit Shield
Even more Ancestral Spirits are called to your aid and wrap themselves around you, forming a protective barrier. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.
Spiritual Ambush is incredibly weak - WOTC has absolutely released absurdly weak Channel Divinities in the past, but there's no reason to ape them. This is particularly obvious because Ancestral Might is a noun-swap for a Watchers CD, and Spiritual Ambush is so much worse than Abjure the Extraplanar it's ridiculous (it's also bad compared to many other oaths - e.g. Oath of Conquest). SA should be at least good enough to be contemplated over Ancestral Might/Harness Divine Power. I cribbed this from Ancestral Guardian Barbarians and remixed it based on Conquest Paladins, you might like it:
As an action, you force each creature of your choice that you can see within 30 feet of you to make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, a target has disadvantage on any attack roll that isn't against you, and when it hits a creature other than you with an attack, that creature has resistance to the damage dealt by the attack. Targets can repeat this saving throw at the end of each of their turns, ending the effect on themselves on a success.
If you don't like it, and want to keep your version, recommend a) allowing it to be used as a bonus action and b) inflicting disadvantage on all targets. Remember, you want your Paladins to maybe sometimes choose it over Ancestral Might or Harness Divine Power.
For level 15, I wouldn't offer up Evasion. You've been copying Watchers (the CD) and Conquest (your Aura) this whole time, why not continue?
Whenever you or a creature you can see within 30 feet of you succeeds on a Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution saving throw, you can use your reaction to give that creature reduction to all damage equal to your Charisma modifier until the beginning of its next turn.
Thanks for the feedback. I guess I forgot that Paladins never get a second use of CD between short rests like Clerics. Definitely makes sense to make the two CD options at least somewhat close in power level so you'd want to use it at least some of the time. The Ancestral Guardian "taunt" is appealing and would definitely be worth considering over Ancestral Might. It would be situational between the two.
And you're probably right about the level 15 ability. Evasion isn't the answer. I don't immediately love the suggestion you came up with, but I'll keep it in mind as I continue to ponder.
If anyone is still interested, I made some updates and hopefully satisfactorally addressed the concerns presented here. I like where it ended up.
The changes were:
Spiritual Ambush CD changed from a DEX save to a WIS save and now causes Stunned for one round instead of Prone on a failed save.
Lvl 15 Spirit Shield is now Ancestral Arbiter, essentially giving CHA modifier uses of silvery barbs per long rest
Added a sort of "Death Ward" to the lvl 20 Avatar of the Ancestors, consuming the summoned spirit (ending the effect) to regain 20HP upon falling to 0 but not dying outright.
The Spiritual Ambush now feels like a good choice against a horde of baddies, while the other CD option is good for a big bad possibly with aoe lair actions that you want to save against and to bolster concentration. The silvery barbs stand-in is to essentially double down and make sure baddies fail that Spiritual Ambush or Spirit Guardians or Destructive Wave save. The last change may be adding a bit much to the capstone, making it a little OP but I like the feeling of the summoned spirit sacrificing itself for the Paladin so oh well.
Full text:
The Oath of Ancestral Spirits binds a paladin to those that have come before. These paladins honor the bravery and contributions of anyone who strove to leave the world better than they found it, fellow paladin or otherwise. They routinely seek out historical records of such figures and relish in being told the legends of folk heroes in small town pubs. Armed with the knowledge of the victories as well as the missteps of their forebearers, these paladins fight on against evil and oppression for the good of those yet to come.
Tenets of the Ancestral Spirits
Though the exact words and strictures of the Oath of Ancestral Spirits vary, paladins of this oath share these tenets.
Knowledge. It is through knowledge of deeds and missteps of our forebearers that we can better serve the world today.
Honor. All those who came before us deserve our respect, be they noble or lowborn, heroic or commonplace.
Remembrance. Gravesites are a place of importance and honor. Take the time to treat them as such.
Life. Do not get lost in the past. Learn from it, honor it, but live your life with joy and vigor and create a better world for those who will look back to you.
Oath Spells
You gain oath spells at the paladin levels listed in the Oath of Ancestral Spirits table. See the Sacred Oath class feature for how oath spells work.
When you take this oath at 3rd level, you gain the following two Channel Divinity options. See the Sacred Oath class feature for how Channel Divinity works.
Spiritual Ambush.You can use your Channel Divinity to call forth the spectral visages of the ancestors of your enemies. As an action, summon ancestral spirits to harry chosen creatures within 30 ft. forcing them to make a Wisdom saving throw agaisnt your spell save DC or be stunned until the end of your next turn, awestruck by the images of their departed family. Undead have disadvantage on this saving throw.
Ancestral Might. You can use your Channel Divinity to call upon the fortitude of your ancestors. As an action, you can choose a number of creatures you can see within 30 feet of you, up to a number equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum of one creature). For 1 minute, you and the chosen creatures have advantage on Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution saving throws.
Aura of Impedance
Starting at 7th level, the spirits of your ancestors impede your enemies while you’re not incapacitated. The aura extends 10 feet from you in every direction.
While within the aura, a hostile creature's speed is halved.
At 18th level, the range of this aura increases to 30 feet.
Ancestral Arbiter
One particularly judgemental spirit has decided they like you and they want to help you and hinder your enemies.
When a creature you can see within 30 feet succeeds on a saving throw, attack roll, or ability check, you can use your reaction to have the spirit interfere, forcing the triggering creature to roll another d20 and use the lower roll. You can then choose a different creature you can see within range (you can choose yourself). The spirit moves to the chosen creature, bolstering it and granting advantage on the next attack roll, ability check, or saving throw it makes within 1 minute. A creature can be empowered by only one use of this feature at a time.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum of once), and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.
Avatar of the Ancestors
At 20th level, your connection to the ancestors is beyond compare. As an action, you can magically summon a mighty spirit to fight by your side, gaining the following benefits for 1 minute:
You gain +2 to your AC.
When you take the Attack action on your turn, your summoned spirit can make one attack as part of that action. They do so with a weapon, stats, and any applicable features identical to your own, including Divine Smite (utilizing your spell slots) and Improved Divine Smite. All damage dealt by this attack is radiant.
Your summoned spirit distracts your enemies, allowing you to move freely without provoking attacks of opportunity.
If you are reduced to 0 hit points but do not die outright, the Spirit rushes to your aid, restoring 20 hit points to you and ending the effect.
Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a long rest.
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Hey and thanks in advance for checking this out. I really wanted to make a Paladin subclass that got Spirit Guardians and concentrated, at least in part, on making the most of that spell. With that in mind, you'll see abilities that slow enemies or make them fall prone to keep them close to you, along with basically all the spells with the word Spirit in the title. I'm stuck on the level 15 ability and would welcome suggestions. My first thought would be for the spirits to basically grant you the Shield Master feat (with some spirit-y reflavoring of the text) but I'm worried that's too strong for a subclass ability. Thoughts? Also some of the oath spells such as Dimension Door and Destructive Wave weren't totally on theme but I didn't see anything I thought fit better. Again would love feedback and suggestions.
Without further ado, I present the Oath of Ancestral Spirits:
The Oath of Ancestral Spirits binds a paladin to those that have come before. These paladins honor the bravery and contributions of anyone who strove to leave the world better than they found it, fellow paladin or otherwise. They routinely seek out historical records of such figures and relish in being told the legends of folk heroes in small town pubs. Armed with the knowledge of the victories as well as the missteps of their forebearers, these paladins fight on against evil and oppression for the good of those yet to come.
Tenets of the Ancestral Spirits
Though the exact words and strictures of the Oath of Ancestral Spirits vary, paladins of this oath share these tenets.
Knowledge. It is through knowledge of deeds and misstesps of our forebearers that we can better serve the world today.
Honor. All those who came before us deserve our respect, be they noble or lowborn, heroic or commonplace.
Remembrance. Gravesites are a place of importance and honor. Take the time to treat them as such.
Life. Do not get lost in the past. Learn from it, honor it, but live your life with joy and vigor and create a better world for those who will look back to you.
Oath Spells
You gain oath spells at the paladin levels listed in the Oath of Ancestral Spirits table. See the Sacred Oath class feature for how oath spells work.
Oath of Ancestral Spirits Spells
Channel Divinity
When you take this oath at 3rd level, you gain the following two Channel Divinity options. See the Sacred Oath class feature for how Channel Divinity works.
Spiritual Ambush. You can use your Channel Divinity to call forth the spectral visages of the ancestors of your enemies. As an action, summon ancestral spirits to harry chosen creatures within 30 ft. forcing them to make a DEX saving throw (DC {{savedc:cha}}) or fall prone. Undead have disadvantage on this saving throw.
Ancestral Might. You can use your Channel Divinity to call upon the fortitude of your ancestors. As an action, you can choose a number of creatures you can see within 30 feet of you, up to a number equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum of one creature). For 1 minute, you and the chosen creatures have advantage on Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution saving throws.
Aura of Impedance
Starting at 7th level, the spirits of your ancestors impede your enemies while you’re not incapacitated. The aura extends 10 feet from you in every direction.
While within the aura, all hostile creatures have their speed reduced by 10 feet until the start of their next turn.
At 18th level, the range of this aura increases to 30 feet.
lvl15 Placeholder
Placeholder
Avatar of the Ancestors
At 20th level, your connection to the ancestors is beyond compare. As an action, you can magically summon a spirit to fight by your side, gaining the following benefits for 1 minute:
Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a long rest.
It's looking good so far IMO; I don't have any immediate suggestion for level 15, but just a couple of quick things to note for now:
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Thanks for the input! I definitely didn't fully understand the distinction between the description box and the snippet box but now I do! Probably would have just taken a little reading somewhere on my part.
And the Aura yeah I went back and forth a few times on the specific wording but yes the intention is that even if they make it out of the Aura, they don't get back to full speed until they begin a turn outside of it. I don't want forced or willing reaction movement, such as the Scout Rogue's Skirmisher feature that lets them move half their speed as a reaction, to get out of the speed reduction, though. Part of me wonders if that's too much of a fringe case to worry about the but perfectionist in me WANTS TO MAKE IT RIGHT while also having it worded concisely.
Oath of Conquest is the only official Oath with a debuff aura and I want it to feel similar. Like even if the Paladin walks up to an enemy or an enemy is forcefully moved to within the aura, they get affected by it no matter what...but then what happens if the paladin walks away? Obviously the enemy gets their move speed back on their turn but what about reaction movement before their next turn. It should probably be at full speed if they begin their movement outside of the aura.
It would probably be easier to scrap the "10 foot reduction until the next turn" in favor of using the same language as Spirit Guardians "An affected creature's speed is halved in the area". This would make it scale in power with enemy speed but...meh? For a creature with a standard speed of 30, its 5 more feet of reduction than the original plan. And then when they do get out of it, they're free instead of somehow still being bogged down despite escaping.
Thank you for coming on this train of thought with me. I also started implementing the Shield Master feat as the level 15 ability and it was kind of a lot of finicky things and I thought, what do I really want here? I want Evasion. So I just made it Evasion. Too strong? Maybe. But I like the visual of these spirits wrapped around you absorbing damage. And at level 15, DCs are gonna be high and a Paladin's Dex save won't be amazing, so it'll usually just be half damage with an exciting "no damage" every now and then.
Level 15: Spirit Shield
Even more Ancestral Spirits are called to your aid and wrap themselves around you, forming a protective barrier. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.
Thanks for the feedback. I guess I forgot that Paladins never get a second use of CD between short rests like Clerics. Definitely makes sense to make the two CD options at least somewhat close in power level so you'd want to use it at least some of the time. The Ancestral Guardian "taunt" is appealing and would definitely be worth considering over Ancestral Might. It would be situational between the two.
And you're probably right about the level 15 ability. Evasion isn't the answer. I don't immediately love the suggestion you came up with, but I'll keep it in mind as I continue to ponder.
If anyone is still interested, I made some updates and hopefully satisfactorally addressed the concerns presented here. I like where it ended up.
The changes were:
The Spiritual Ambush now feels like a good choice against a horde of baddies, while the other CD option is good for a big bad possibly with aoe lair actions that you want to save against and to bolster concentration. The silvery barbs stand-in is to essentially double down and make sure baddies fail that Spiritual Ambush or Spirit Guardians or Destructive Wave save. The last change may be adding a bit much to the capstone, making it a little OP but I like the feeling of the summoned spirit sacrificing itself for the Paladin so oh well.
Full text:
The Oath of Ancestral Spirits binds a paladin to those that have come before. These paladins honor the bravery and contributions of anyone who strove to leave the world better than they found it, fellow paladin or otherwise. They routinely seek out historical records of such figures and relish in being told the legends of folk heroes in small town pubs. Armed with the knowledge of the victories as well as the missteps of their forebearers, these paladins fight on against evil and oppression for the good of those yet to come.
Tenets of the Ancestral Spirits
Though the exact words and strictures of the Oath of Ancestral Spirits vary, paladins of this oath share these tenets.
Knowledge. It is through knowledge of deeds and missteps of our forebearers that we can better serve the world today.
Honor. All those who came before us deserve our respect, be they noble or lowborn, heroic or commonplace.
Remembrance. Gravesites are a place of importance and honor. Take the time to treat them as such.
Life. Do not get lost in the past. Learn from it, honor it, but live your life with joy and vigor and create a better world for those who will look back to you.
Oath Spells
You gain oath spells at the paladin levels listed in the Oath of Ancestral Spirits table. See the Sacred Oath class feature for how oath spells work.
Oath of Ancestral Spirits Spells
Channel Divinity
When you take this oath at 3rd level, you gain the following two Channel Divinity options. See the Sacred Oath class feature for how Channel Divinity works.
Spiritual Ambush. You can use your Channel Divinity to call forth the spectral visages of the ancestors of your enemies. As an action, summon ancestral spirits to harry chosen creatures within 30 ft. forcing them to make a Wisdom saving throw agaisnt your spell save DC or be stunned until the end of your next turn, awestruck by the images of their departed family. Undead have disadvantage on this saving throw.
Ancestral Might. You can use your Channel Divinity to call upon the fortitude of your ancestors. As an action, you can choose a number of creatures you can see within 30 feet of you, up to a number equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum of one creature). For 1 minute, you and the chosen creatures have advantage on Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution saving throws.
Aura of Impedance
Starting at 7th level, the spirits of your ancestors impede your enemies while you’re not incapacitated. The aura extends 10 feet from you in every direction.
While within the aura, a hostile creature's speed is halved.
At 18th level, the range of this aura increases to 30 feet.
Ancestral Arbiter
One particularly judgemental spirit has decided they like you and they want to help you and hinder your enemies.
When a creature you can see within 30 feet succeeds on a saving throw, attack roll, or ability check, you can use your reaction to have the spirit interfere, forcing the triggering creature to roll another d20 and use the lower roll. You can then choose a different creature you can see within range (you can choose yourself). The spirit moves to the chosen creature, bolstering it and granting advantage on the next attack roll, ability check, or saving throw it makes within 1 minute. A creature can be empowered by only one use of this feature at a time.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum of once), and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.
Avatar of the Ancestors
At 20th level, your connection to the ancestors is beyond compare. As an action, you can magically summon a mighty spirit to fight by your side, gaining the following benefits for 1 minute:
Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a long rest.