I am currently in a campaign that is going to about level 8 possibly 9. I am playing a Human Variant Ranger. I just picked up Gloom Stalker at level 3. I thought about dipping into rogue a little bit after level 5 so I can at least get the double attack feature of the class. I love the thematic and potential roleplay aspects of combining something like Scout or Assassin with a Gloom Stalker. I feel both have a lot to offer on their own and complement the Gloom Stalker well. I just can't decide which to pick and am interested in hearing other people's experiences on it and pro's vs con's of the two.
Are you playing tashas options or not? That kind of makes a big diffrence on build suggestestions.
I think scout rogue is doubbling down on things the ranger is already good at. (maybe not depending on build). I really like spell progress so I prefer to either dip druid (a wild shape will work wonders for gloomstalker) or just stay ranger.
if i were to mix in rogue I would lean twards thief. I really like the bonus action healers kit, or trap setting or bonus action vial throwing for a ranger build.
I know a lot of people say assisin doesn't hold up mathmatically but i think it can exceed it depending on how your dm treats poision harvesting. if your group is working with you for supprise rounds assasin could be really good.
Sounds like you’re only going to take a level or two in rogue, unless I’m misunderstanding.
5 levels in any ranger for a campaign that isn’t reaching level 11+ is already ahead of the curve. I don’t think you have a wrong choice here. Druid, monk, fighter, barbarian, cleric, and rogue all pair very well with the ranger. Personally, I tend to diversify over double doubling down, so assassin would be too redundant for me.
Yes, my plan is to take Ranger Gloom Stalker to level 5 and then start dipping into Rogue until we reach the end of the campaign at which point I should be level 8 possibly 9. I am leaning more towards Scout Rogue subclass or possibly the Thief subclass.
Go Gloomstalker at least to level 7, to get WIS save proficiency. This is a no brainer! I would suggest level 8 for an ASI / feat. Then you go Rogue or even Fighter. Action Surge with Dread Ambusher is insane.
Pass Without a Trace is one of the best spells in the game and it’s so underrated. You can basically turn your party into silent deadly ninjas, even the pesky heavy armor users.
You make a very good point with Action Surge + Dread Ambusher!
I looked at that recently. The combination is pretty nice for first attack alpha strike. I never thought about the Iron Mind ability but that's another great point. I do like the utility of Scout and the extra skills. So many options, doesn't seem either is bad and waiting till level 8 for the ASI and THEN going into rogue sounds like a great idea as well.
I’m with Frank on not doubling down which pushes scout and assassin out of the choices. If your really going to be the sneaky guy then thief isn’t bad. Check with your DM on what he is letting you have of the L1 stuff - he may be be limiting it to only one extra skill as the MC section of the PHB says
. You should be getting the expertise, sneak attack and thieves can’t but not the saves and only 1 new skill but I’ve seen DMs give more and less so always check first. The problem is your not really getting much you don’t already have. If you string gloomstalker out to L7 as several have suggested and the campaign is only going to L8 ( or 9 at most) then you really want to stay a ranger all the way and get that L8 ASI. If you manage to pick up L9 and want to MC as you retire then anything you want is possible - heck, if you have the charisma go sorceror and pick up some blasting spells - the cantrips are doing 2D6-10 which isn’t bad damage.
Depending on your stats and a few other things (fighting style, what feat(s) you have etc. I'd suggest getting three levels of scout as soon as possible. Here's why.
Your character is a variant with the crossbow expert feat. If you're using a hand crossbow this means that you will have two attacks each turn, should you want to. This mitigates the need for getting your Ranger level 5. Getting those three levels of Rogue will also give you three more skill proficiences (if you didn't have Nature and Survival already) and Expertise in FOUR skills, two of which are Nature and Survival.
The effectiveness of this build depends a bit on what your role is in the party and what the other PCs there are. You mentioned that you are the sneaky guy so I'm assuming there are other more tanky characters and damage dealers? If so, the need for you getting an Extra Attack from Ranger lvl 5 is even less. You still have that bonus action attack from XBE and you'll do some pretty good damage with Sneak Attack, especially if you take the Sharpshooter feat. I recommend taking this AFTER 3 levels of rogue, that way you can somewhat negate the -5 to hit by using the Aim action (so if you get a heavy crossbow you can become a pretty awesome sniper).
The downside of this build is that you might not get proficieny in Wisdom saving throws and Pass Without a Trace will be delayed. That said, as a Gloom Stalker Ranger you will probably have a decent Wisdom anyway and you personally will be the sneakiest person in the game.
I like the ideas. Yea there are other tanky damage dealers that are frontline. I’m the only person that will be sneaky/rogue like in the group. I’ve already leveraged dread ambusher and umbral sight heavily sneaking around. So grabbing scout early might be a better option upfront! Thanks!
I am currently in a campaign that is going to about level 8 possibly 9. I am playing a Human Variant Ranger. I just picked up Gloom Stalker at level 3. I thought about dipping into rogue a little bit after level 5 so I can at least get the double attack feature of the class. I love the thematic and potential roleplay aspects of combining something like Scout or Assassin with a Gloom Stalker. I feel both have a lot to offer on their own and complement the Gloom Stalker well. I just can't decide which to pick and am interested in hearing other people's experiences on it and pro's vs con's of the two.
Are you playing tashas options or not? That kind of makes a big diffrence on build suggestestions.
I think scout rogue is doubbling down on things the ranger is already good at. (maybe not depending on build). I really like spell progress so I prefer to either dip druid (a wild shape will work wonders for gloomstalker) or just stay ranger.
if i were to mix in rogue I would lean twards thief. I really like the bonus action healers kit, or trap setting or bonus action vial throwing for a ranger build.
I know a lot of people say assisin doesn't hold up mathmatically but i think it can exceed it depending on how your dm treats poision harvesting. if your group is working with you for supprise rounds assasin could be really good.
Yep, Tashas options are available.
We dont have a rogue in our party so I’m the “sneaky” guy. I’m also variant human with Crossbow Expert.
Sounds like you’re only going to take a level or two in rogue, unless I’m misunderstanding.
5 levels in any ranger for a campaign that isn’t reaching level 11+ is already ahead of the curve. I don’t think you have a wrong choice here. Druid, monk, fighter, barbarian, cleric, and rogue all pair very well with the ranger. Personally, I tend to diversify over double doubling down, so assassin would be too redundant for me.
Yes, my plan is to take Ranger Gloom Stalker to level 5 and then start dipping into Rogue until we reach the end of the campaign at which point I should be level 8 possibly 9. I am leaning more towards Scout Rogue subclass or possibly the Thief subclass.
Go Gloomstalker at least to level 7, to get WIS save proficiency. This is a no brainer! I would suggest level 8 for an ASI / feat. Then you go Rogue or even Fighter. Action Surge with Dread Ambusher is insane.
I second gloomstalker level 7. Wisdom save proficiency is great. The extra spells known is also big, and a 2nd level slot. Its a pretty good level.
Pass Without a Trace is one of the best spells in the game and it’s so underrated. You can basically turn your party into silent deadly ninjas, even the pesky heavy armor users.
You make a very good point with Action Surge + Dread Ambusher!
I looked at that recently. The combination is pretty nice for first attack alpha strike. I never thought about the Iron Mind ability but that's another great point. I do like the utility of Scout and the extra skills. So many options, doesn't seem either is bad and waiting till level 8 for the ASI and THEN going into rogue sounds like a great idea as well.
Level 8 asi = skill expert, no need for rogue then?
Remembering that Deft Explorer from Tasha’s lets you get expertise in one skill, that’s half a way from a Rogue.
Of these two option I prefer scout for the free proficiencies with expertise. Assasin is better in combat though.
I’m with Frank on not doubling down which pushes scout and assassin out of the choices. If your really going to be the sneaky guy then thief isn’t bad. Check with your DM on what he is letting you have of the L1 stuff - he may be be limiting it to only one extra skill as the MC section of the PHB says
. You should be getting the expertise, sneak attack and thieves can’t but not the saves and only 1 new skill but I’ve seen DMs give more and less so always check first. The problem is your not really getting much you don’t already have. If you string gloomstalker out to L7 as several have suggested and the campaign is only going to L8 ( or 9 at most) then you really want to stay a ranger all the way and get that L8 ASI. If you manage to pick up L9 and want to MC as you retire then anything you want is possible - heck, if you have the charisma go sorceror and pick up some blasting spells - the cantrips are doing 2D6-10 which isn’t bad damage.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Depending on your stats and a few other things (fighting style, what feat(s) you have etc. I'd suggest getting three levels of scout as soon as possible. Here's why.
Your character is a variant with the crossbow expert feat. If you're using a hand crossbow this means that you will have two attacks each turn, should you want to. This mitigates the need for getting your Ranger level 5. Getting those three levels of Rogue will also give you three more skill proficiences (if you didn't have Nature and Survival already) and Expertise in FOUR skills, two of which are Nature and Survival.
The effectiveness of this build depends a bit on what your role is in the party and what the other PCs there are. You mentioned that you are the sneaky guy so I'm assuming there are other more tanky characters and damage dealers? If so, the need for you getting an Extra Attack from Ranger lvl 5 is even less. You still have that bonus action attack from XBE and you'll do some pretty good damage with Sneak Attack, especially if you take the Sharpshooter feat. I recommend taking this AFTER 3 levels of rogue, that way you can somewhat negate the -5 to hit by using the Aim action (so if you get a heavy crossbow you can become a pretty awesome sniper).
The downside of this build is that you might not get proficieny in Wisdom saving throws and Pass Without a Trace will be delayed. That said, as a Gloom Stalker Ranger you will probably have a decent Wisdom anyway and you personally will be the sneakiest person in the game.
Cheers!
I like the ideas. Yea there are other tanky damage dealers that are frontline. I’m the only person that will be sneaky/rogue like in the group. I’ve already leveraged dread ambusher and umbral sight heavily sneaking around. So grabbing scout early might be a better option upfront! Thanks!