Hello! I need to make a new character for a DnD session this comming weekend, and I was thinking of making an archer. As it will be my second DnD character I might have overlooked important things, but fighter to level 5 (for the extra attack, archer fighting style and sharphooter feat) and then the rest in rouge for sneak attack bonus on the first shot - does it sound like a good plan, or would I make a better archer using other class/classes?
The first session I would only play level 1 Archer/fighter, but fighter / rouge would be what I go for later on.
I would personally do rogue first for 4 levels (take assassin at level 3) and alert feat at level 4. Take 5 levels on fighter the same way you were thinking and comeback to rogue for the rest.
If you pick human you can take one of the feats early on.
Fighters, rangers, and rogues all make good archers. However, there are two other options that can make good that are often overlooked. Bards (with Swift quiver magical secrets, probably valor unless you get extra attack somewhere else) and hexblade warlocks with a pact weapon can both be excellent archers and can really as a lot when multiclassing.
I think a fun option would be hexblade warlock 5, whispers bard 10, and rogue 5 (maybe assassin for flavor and opening round craziness or swashbuckler for easier sneak attacks) would make for an interesting build. 3d6 attack sneak, Charisma for attack and damage so you'd only need one stat, and 4 attacks per round. If you've already hexed the target, that's another 4d6. So 4d8 bow damage plus 4*charisma modifier + 7d6 damage. But wait, there's more! If you do go whispers you can expand a bardic inspiration to use psychic blades (doesn't actually have to be blades or even melee) for another 5d6. And you'd think that'd be it, but it's not! You can take Eldritch smite to add another 4d8 damage and knock the enemy prone. Then the other three attacks would be made at advantage. Also, if you've already cast hexblade's curse, you're also adding your proficiency bonus four times. The only issue is how many really good uses for your bonus action you'll have. Cunning action, hex, hexblade curse, and Swift quiver all use your bonus action. On longer fights it might be worth it to use hex and the curse but most of the time you'd probably be best just using your bonus action for extra attacks. You also only have two warlock spell slots for smites or hexes. Thematically I think it's really cool and without doing the math I think it would be really strong mechanically.
@Kendis Your math is off. You don't get to add Hex damage and get 4 attacks. The 4 attacks comes from casting swift quiver so it's either 2d8 (bow) + 2d6 (hex) or 4d8 (swift quiver). Also, prone is disadvantage on ranged attacks and advantage on melee attacks.
Inquisitive instead of Assassin to get the Sneak Attack even without advantage vs one foe.
Insightful Fighting
At 3rd level, you gain the ability to decipher an opponent’s tactics and develop a counter to them. As a bonus action, you can make a Wisdom (Insight) check against a creature you can see that isn’t incapacitated, contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check. If you succeed, you can use your Sneak Attack against that target even if you don’t have advantage on the attack roll, but not if you have disadvantage on it.
This benefit lasts for 1 minute or until you successfully use this feature against a different target.
I split the levels 8/12 to maximize the ASi/Feat selections, not sure it's the best split but I tend to prioritize ASI/Feats over some class features.
The last ASI/Feat will be at 20th level so... The level 9 Inquisitive feature "Steady Eye" does not appear that important to the build. Although the 5th D6 of sneak attack may be better. BM 12 vs 11 means 1d10 HP instead of 1d8 from the extra rogue level and one more ASI/Feat selection.
I wouldn't go lower than BM 11 since you get your 2nd extra attack at 11.
I'm not sure when Iwould take the different levels:
4 Rogue, 8 BM, 4 Rogue, 4 BM (Pros: 1st ASI/Feat at lvl 4, 2d6 Sneak by lvl 3, Rogue Insight for more frequent Sneak by lvl 3. Cons: no surge until lvl 6, no Archer fighting style until lvl 6, no BM maneuvers until lvl 7, no extra attack until lvl 9, no uncanny dodge until 13, no evasion until 15)
Any thoughts?
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Freedom without Laws is Anarchy... Laws without Freedom is Tyranny!
Well my math isn't off because I didn't do any, but you're correct in that I got a few mechanics wrong in my tired state. Prone causes ranged attack disadvantage and both swift quiver and hex are concentration spells so you'll have to pick one or the other. Obviously once you get swift quiver, that's the way to go assuming you have a spell slot available.
But to answer the OPs question, there are a lot of ways to build a successful archer. You could go 20 levels in fighter, you could go 20 levels in rogue, you could go 20 levels in ranger, 20 levels in Bard, or even 20 levels in warlock. Most games never get to 20 so it's generally not worth planning that far in advance. Just think what would be cool right now and what would be cool for the next few levels. You want to be an archer. That's a really fun concept! Do you want to be an archer that mostly shoots arrows (fighter or rogue) or an archer that has a lot of options in combat (Ranger, bard, or warlock with crossbow master).
My personal favorite for low level archering is an elf samurai with elvish advantage. I also love the bard archer because it has so many good options for in and out of combat. You could combine them as both benefit from good charisma scores. By level 10 it's a really fantastic archer. Rogue archer as scout can be very effective as well. You could do that to 20 or multiclass into pretty much anything at any number of good points.
Why not just use swashbuckler instead of inquisitive. You get insane one vs. one, and a massive bonus to initiative.
BTW this is a reply to Kriegvarg
Isn't the Swashbuckler a Blade expert and therefore in Melee most of the time?
Cuz this is an Archer Build ;-)
Oh. Yea, you right. Scout maybe? You’ll almost never be to close to your opponent that you have disadvantage on ranged attacks, as long as you have enough reactions, and with multi attack ambush master would give you a guaranteed sneak attack if you hit your first shot, then if you take archery fighting style, you get a bonus to the attack roll, so you can pretty much choose an enemy to die at the start of a fight. Combine that with damage arcane archer choices, maybe even seeking arrow, and if you hit them in the toe, they’re getting sent straight to the land of the screwed
Why not just use swashbuckler instead of inquisitive. You get insane one vs. one, and a massive bonus to initiative.
BTW this is a reply to Kriegvarg
Isn't the Swashbuckler a Blade expert and therefore in Melee most of the time?
Cuz this is an Archer Build ;-)
Oh. Yea, you right. Scout maybe? You’ll almost never be to close to your opponent that you have disadvantage on ranged attacks, as long as you have enough reactions, and with multi attack ambush master would give you a guaranteed sneak attack if you hit your first shot, then if you take archery fighting style, you get a bonus to the attack roll, so you can pretty much choose an enemy to die at the start of a fight. Combine that with damage arcane archer choices, maybe even seeking arrow, and if you hit them in the toe, they’re getting sent straight to the land of the screwed
True, i've also realized that as a ranged attacker, your foes are often going to be engaged with your melees and you'll therefore be able to use sneak attack no matter what.
The scout's Ambush Master is available at rogue 13 so you could only have a max fighter level 7 missing out on your fighter's level 11 Extra Attack (2), your 3rd arrow per attack action.
Arcane Archer might be nice but, I just love the BM's maneuvers, only 3 ( Lunging, Riposte and Sweeping) specify a MELEE weapon attack. That means you can push your enemy off a ledge at range or shoot them out of the sky making them plummet with trip as per the flight movement rules:
Why not just use swashbuckler instead of inquisitive. You get insane one vs. one, and a massive bonus to initiative.
BTW this is a reply to Kriegvarg
Isn't the Swashbuckler a Blade expert and therefore in Melee most of the time?
Cuz this is an Archer Build ;-)
Oh. Yea, you right. Scout maybe? You’ll almost never be to close to your opponent that you have disadvantage on ranged attacks, as long as you have enough reactions, and with multi attack ambush master would give you a guaranteed sneak attack if you hit your first shot, then if you take archery fighting style, you get a bonus to the attack roll, so you can pretty much choose an enemy to die at the start of a fight. Combine that with damage arcane archer choices, maybe even seeking arrow, and if you hit them in the toe, they’re getting sent straight to the land of the screwed
True, i've also realized that as a ranged attacker, your foes are often going to be engaged with your melees and you'll therefore be able to use sneak attack no matter what.
The scout's Ambush Master is available at rogue 13 so you could only have a max fighter level 7 missing out on your fighter's level 11 Extra Attack (2), your 3rd arrow per attack action.
Arcane Archer might be nice but, I just love the BM's maneuvers, only 3 ( Lunging, Riposte and Sweeping) specify a MELEE weapon attack. That means you can push your enemy off a ledge at range or shoot them out of the sky making them plummet with trip as per the flight movement rules:
296 damage if you Crit, every turn until you take a rest. Plus 18 to hit, so you will always hit pretty much. The only down side If you want max damage, you’re gonna be at 10 health for the encounter.
but it’s 20 armour class, so your fine in the back line
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
heheh get rickrolled xdddddd
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Hello!
I need to make a new character for a DnD session this comming weekend, and I was thinking of making an archer. As it will be my second DnD character I might have overlooked important things, but fighter to level 5 (for the extra attack, archer fighting style and sharphooter feat) and then the rest in rouge for sneak attack bonus on the first shot - does it sound like a good plan, or would I make a better archer using other class/classes?
The first session I would only play level 1 Archer/fighter, but fighter / rouge would be what I go for later on.
Suggestions are welcome!
I playing a similar rogue.
I would personally do rogue first for 4 levels (take assassin at level 3) and alert feat at level 4. Take 5 levels on fighter the same way you were thinking and comeback to rogue for the rest.
If you pick human you can take one of the feats early on.
Fighters, rangers, and rogues all make good archers. However, there are two other options that can make good that are often overlooked. Bards (with Swift quiver magical secrets, probably valor unless you get extra attack somewhere else) and hexblade warlocks with a pact weapon can both be excellent archers and can really as a lot when multiclassing.
I think a fun option would be hexblade warlock 5, whispers bard 10, and rogue 5 (maybe assassin for flavor and opening round craziness or swashbuckler for easier sneak attacks) would make for an interesting build. 3d6 attack sneak, Charisma for attack and damage so you'd only need one stat, and 4 attacks per round. If you've already hexed the target, that's another 4d6. So 4d8 bow damage plus 4*charisma modifier + 7d6 damage. But wait, there's more! If you do go whispers you can expand a bardic inspiration to use psychic blades (doesn't actually have to be blades or even melee) for another 5d6. And you'd think that'd be it, but it's not! You can take Eldritch smite to add another 4d8 damage and knock the enemy prone. Then the other three attacks would be made at advantage. Also, if you've already cast hexblade's curse, you're also adding your proficiency bonus four times. The only issue is how many really good uses for your bonus action you'll have. Cunning action, hex, hexblade curse, and Swift quiver all use your bonus action. On longer fights it might be worth it to use hex and the curse but most of the time you'd probably be best just using your bonus action for extra attacks. You also only have two warlock spell slots for smites or hexes. Thematically I think it's really cool and without doing the math I think it would be really strong mechanically.
@Kendis Your math is off. You don't get to add Hex damage and get 4 attacks. The 4 attacks comes from casting swift quiver so it's either 2d8 (bow) + 2d6 (hex) or 4d8 (swift quiver). Also, prone is disadvantage on ranged attacks and advantage on melee attacks.
I'm toying with the idea of a Rogue 8 Inquisitive / Fighter 12 Battlemaster Archer https://www.dndbeyond.com/profile/Kriegvarg/characters/18137432
Inquisitive instead of Assassin to get the Sneak Attack even without advantage vs one foe.
Insightful Fighting
At 3rd level, you gain the ability to decipher an opponent’s tactics and develop a counter to them. As a bonus action, you can make a Wisdom (Insight) check against a creature you can see that isn’t incapacitated, contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check. If you succeed, you can use your Sneak Attack against that target even if you don’t have advantage on the attack roll, but not if you have disadvantage on it.
This benefit lasts for 1 minute or until you successfully use this feature against a different target.
I split the levels 8/12 to maximize the ASi/Feat selections, not sure it's the best split but I tend to prioritize ASI/Feats over some class features.
The last ASI/Feat will be at 20th level so... The level 9 Inquisitive feature "Steady Eye" does not appear that important to the build. Although the 5th D6 of sneak attack may be better. BM 12 vs 11 means 1d10 HP instead of 1d8 from the extra rogue level and one more ASI/Feat selection.
I wouldn't go lower than BM 11 since you get your 2nd extra attack at 11.
I'm not sure when Iwould take the different levels:
4 Rogue, 8 BM, 4 Rogue, 4 BM (Pros: 1st ASI/Feat at lvl 4, 2d6 Sneak by lvl 3, Rogue Insight for more frequent Sneak by lvl 3. Cons: no surge until lvl 6, no Archer fighting style until lvl 6, no BM maneuvers until lvl 7, no extra attack until lvl 9, no uncanny dodge until 13, no evasion until 15)
Any thoughts?
Freedom without Laws is Anarchy... Laws without Freedom is Tyranny!
Well my math isn't off because I didn't do any, but you're correct in that I got a few mechanics wrong in my tired state. Prone causes ranged attack disadvantage and both swift quiver and hex are concentration spells so you'll have to pick one or the other. Obviously once you get swift quiver, that's the way to go assuming you have a spell slot available.
But to answer the OPs question, there are a lot of ways to build a successful archer. You could go 20 levels in fighter, you could go 20 levels in rogue, you could go 20 levels in ranger, 20 levels in Bard, or even 20 levels in warlock. Most games never get to 20 so it's generally not worth planning that far in advance. Just think what would be cool right now and what would be cool for the next few levels. You want to be an archer. That's a really fun concept! Do you want to be an archer that mostly shoots arrows (fighter or rogue) or an archer that has a lot of options in combat (Ranger, bard, or warlock with crossbow master).
My personal favorite for low level archering is an elf samurai with elvish advantage. I also love the bard archer because it has so many good options for in and out of combat. You could combine them as both benefit from good charisma scores. By level 10 it's a really fantastic archer. Rogue archer as scout can be very effective as well. You could do that to 20 or multiclass into pretty much anything at any number of good points.
Why not just use swashbuckler instead of inquisitive. You get insane one vs. one, and a massive bonus to initiative.
BTW this is a reply to Kriegvarg
heheh get rickrolled xdddddd
Isn't the Swashbuckler a Blade expert and therefore in Melee most of the time?
Cuz this is an Archer Build ;-)
Freedom without Laws is Anarchy... Laws without Freedom is Tyranny!
Oh. Yea, you right. Scout maybe? You’ll almost never be to close to your opponent that you have disadvantage on ranged attacks, as long as you have enough reactions, and with multi attack ambush master would give you a guaranteed sneak attack if you hit your first shot, then if you take archery fighting style, you get a bonus to the attack roll, so you can pretty much choose an enemy to die at the start of a fight. Combine that with damage arcane archer choices, maybe even seeking arrow, and if you hit them in the toe, they’re getting sent straight to the land of the screwed
heheh get rickrolled xdddddd
True, i've also realized that as a ranged attacker, your foes are often going to be engaged with your melees and you'll therefore be able to use sneak attack no matter what.
The scout's Ambush Master is available at rogue 13 so you could only have a max fighter level 7 missing out on your fighter's level 11 Extra Attack (2), your 3rd arrow per attack action.
Arcane Archer might be nice but, I just love the BM's maneuvers, only 3 ( Lunging, Riposte and Sweeping) specify a MELEE weapon attack. That means you can push your enemy off a ledge at range or shoot them out of the sky making them plummet with trip as per the flight movement rules:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat#FlyingMovementhttps://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat#FlyingMovement
After fiddling with the character creation, I went with Rogue Inquisitive 9, Fighter BM 11, you can see it here:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/profile/Kriegvarg/characters/18152408https://www.dndbeyond.com/profile/Kriegvarg/characters/18152408
A Scout 13 Arcane Archer 7 might be cool, I'll fiddle with it :)
Freedom without Laws is Anarchy... Laws without Freedom is Tyranny!
Nice build. Ima try something with a heroism paladin rouge, with samurai fighter
heheh get rickrolled xdddddd
Ok, the concept was run through.
296 damage if you Crit, every turn until you take a rest. Plus 18 to hit, so you will always hit pretty much. The only down side If you want max damage, you’re gonna be at 10 health for the encounter.
but it’s 20 armour class, so your fine in the back line
heheh get rickrolled xdddddd