I will present my train of thought here. I hope someone can tell me where I am wrong and state RAW or SAC content to prove why my train of thought is wrong. If I am not wrong, wereravens are not just overpowered, but absolutely busted.
1. A PC becoming a wereraven ratains all of their statistics but gets the features specified by the wereraven.
2. Thus, the PC gains the Regeneration Feature of the wereraven.
3. The PC can not be killed except by a silvered weapon or a damage-dealing spell (and instant-kill effects)
4. About 90% of the monsters in the Monster Manual are not able to kill the wereraven due to lack of silvered weapons or damage dealing spells
5. For example: A Lvl 1 wereraven PC would defeat an ancient red dragon, provided it doesn't run away, with a 100% chance because the dragon could never kill the wereraven.
5. For example: A Lvl 1 wereraven PC would defeat an ancient red dragon, provided it doesn't run away, with a 100% chance because the dragon could never kill the wereraven.
ancient red dragon has Fire Breath. 26d6 on a failure or half on a success will kill a Lvl 1 PC...
Edit: Sorry I misread. It's the feature of regenerate which prevents it from dying. Watching the wereraven get downed and get back up again and again would be well creepy!
I'll also note that wereraven are in Barovia, The Monster Manual doesn't cover them at all. So unless your party are off to kill Strahd they might find it difficult to come across one to benefit from its bite. Even then they might not be so lucky (from CoS):
wereraven employ light weapons to avoid spreading their curse to those who would abuse it.
That "provided it doesn't run away" makes the whole discussion kinda pointless. An Ancient Red Dragon isn't going to just sit there and let itself get nickel & dimed to death. If for some reason it has a need to kill the wereraven, it would back off and come up with a plan. If I were them, I'd melt down some silver and dip my claws in it, then go back to finish the little birdy off :)
Lycanthropes in general are pretty broken. Anyone that fails a save against their bite becomes immune to all their attacks and gains increased strength or dexterity, and other than during the full moon they suffer no ill effects as long as they resist the curse.
Note that there are many ways to prevent regeneration, such as the Cantrip Chill Touch.
If the player actively seeks out lycanthropy, then this passage applies:
"The DM is free to decide that a change in alignment places the character under DM control until the curse of lycanthropy is removed."
Essentially rendering the PC an NPC.
If the DM creates a scenario that forces a PC to become afflicted by lycanthropy and doesn't have a contingency for dealing with it, then that's on them. An adventurer who isn't embracing the curse will have many opportunities to cure themselves as they explore, and failing to do so can be treated as embracing it.
5. For example: A Lvl 1 wereraven PC would defeat an ancient red dragon, provided it doesn't run away, with a 100% chance because the dragon could never kill the wereraven.
ancient red dragon has Fire Breath. 26d6 on a failure or half on a success will kill a Lvl 1 PC...
Edit: Sorry I misread. It's the feature of regenerate which prevents it from dying. Watching the wereraven get downed and get back up again and again would be well creepy!
No, the breath weapon would cause death from massive damage, as per the PHB.
Note that there are many ways to prevent regeneration, such as the Cantrip Chill Touch.
If the player actively seeks out lycanthropy, then this passage applies:
"The DM is free to decide that a change in alignment places the character under DM control until the curse of lycanthropy is removed."
Essentially rendering the PC an NPC.
If the DM creates a scenario that forces a PC to become afflicted by lycanthropy and doesn't have a contingency for dealing with it, then that's on them. An adventurer who isn't embracing the curse will have many opportunities to cure themselves as they explore, and failing to do so can be treated as embracing it.
Turning a character into an NPC because their alignment shifted to lawful good is liable to get dice thrown at you.
With the trend away from set alignments, I think the more important aspect is that lycanthropy comes with imposed instincts and behaviors. If the DM wants to discourage players from cheesing magical curses, then they can reasonably impose this kind of disincentive, (as long as they give the players fair notice).
Simply taking a player's character away, for any reason, is almost always taboo.
i personally still use von rictons guide to werebeasts from 2nd ed it gives the silver weakness as a general and also a race specific item that they are waek to. also fire and acid disrupt the regeneration of even trolls
Color me confused. Is regeneration a trait specific to wereravens? I don't have Curse of Strahd but I don't see any mention of regeneration in any of the were monsters I do have access to. So either I am completely missing it everywhere I look for it, it is specific to wereravens, or people are describing the damage immunity as regeneration.
Color me confused. Is regeneration a trait specific to wereravens? I don't have Curse of Strahd but I don't see any mention of regeneration in any of the were monsters I do have access to. So either I am completely missing it everywhere I look for it, it is specific to wereravens, or people are describing the damage immunity as regeneration.
It's specific to wereravens, mechanically it's the same as troll regen except a weakness to silver instead of acid and fire.
I would add other ways to thwart regeneration, especially in the event of a dragon that can one shot the wereraven. At my table, any form of regeneration that can be thwarted with certain damage types would also be thwarted via a critical hit (which, any attack at 0 would be, for a double tap).
but i am curious about how to interpret the stat block? if they drop to zero and then take a bunch more hits, wouldn't they already be dead before the regeneration can do anything on the next turn? or is it really not possible to die at all?
If I remember correctly all fire damage is considered magical even though not all fire is. Fairly sure all damage outside of bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing is also considered magical. Though I could see some arguments such as poison and force. And as far as lycantropy I belive when they changed wereravens they mean all are changed. So they are no longer immune to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing, Instead they regenerate. Wereravens also implies that a pc who gets if would not be altered personality wise cuz they avoid giving it to people who would miss use its power. And people seem to forget werebears have something similar in not wanting to spread the curse. In my game the curse and be embraced and full control can be gained just takes time and some help. Maybe a potion made involving wereblood wolf's bane and other things
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I will present my train of thought here. I hope someone can tell me where I am wrong and state RAW or SAC content to prove why my train of thought is wrong. If I am not wrong, wereravens are not just overpowered, but absolutely busted.
1. A PC becoming a wereraven ratains all of their statistics but gets the features specified by the wereraven.
2. Thus, the PC gains the Regeneration Feature of the wereraven.
3. The PC can not be killed except by a silvered weapon or a damage-dealing spell (and instant-kill effects)
4. About 90% of the monsters in the Monster Manual are not able to kill the wereraven due to lack of silvered weapons or damage dealing spells
5. For example: A Lvl 1 wereraven PC would defeat an ancient red dragon, provided it doesn't run away, with a 100% chance because the dragon could never kill the wereraven.
ancient red dragon has Fire Breath. 26d6 on a failure or half on a success will kill a Lvl 1 PC...
Edit: Sorry I misread. It's the feature of regenerate which prevents it from dying. Watching the wereraven get downed and get back up again and again would be well creepy!
I'll also note that wereraven are in Barovia, The Monster Manual doesn't cover them at all. So unless your party are off to kill Strahd they might find it difficult to come across one to benefit from its bite. Even then they might not be so lucky (from CoS):
That "provided it doesn't run away" makes the whole discussion kinda pointless. An Ancient Red Dragon isn't going to just sit there and let itself get nickel & dimed to death. If for some reason it has a need to kill the wereraven, it would back off and come up with a plan. If I were them, I'd melt down some silver and dip my claws in it, then go back to finish the little birdy off :)
Imagine trapping a dragon and killing him like that. Absolutely dishonoring.
Lycanthropes in general are pretty broken. Anyone that fails a save against their bite becomes immune to all their attacks and gains increased strength or dexterity, and other than during the full moon they suffer no ill effects as long as they resist the curse.
Note that there are many ways to prevent regeneration, such as the Cantrip Chill Touch.
If the player actively seeks out lycanthropy, then this passage applies:
"The DM is free to decide that a change in alignment places the character under DM control until the curse of lycanthropy is removed."
Essentially rendering the PC an NPC.
If the DM creates a scenario that forces a PC to become afflicted by lycanthropy and doesn't have a contingency for dealing with it, then that's on them. An adventurer who isn't embracing the curse will have many opportunities to cure themselves as they explore, and failing to do so can be treated as embracing it.
No, the breath weapon would cause death from massive damage, as per the PHB.
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
In the case of "Specific Beats General", the wereraven's regeneration would supercede massive damage.
I personally agree that massive damage should always be in play, but that isn't a given.
Oh, yeah. I misread regeneration.
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
Turning a character into an NPC because their alignment shifted to lawful good is liable to get dice thrown at you.
With the trend away from set alignments, I think the more important aspect is that lycanthropy comes with imposed instincts and behaviors. If the DM wants to discourage players from cheesing magical curses, then they can reasonably impose this kind of disincentive, (as long as they give the players fair notice).
Simply taking a player's character away, for any reason, is almost always taboo.
uh, let's say a level 1 PC has like 12 HPs. That means 24 damage is insta-kill. so, no.
i personally still use von rictons guide to werebeasts from 2nd ed it gives the silver weakness as a general and also a race specific item that they are waek to. also fire and acid disrupt the regeneration of even trolls
Color me confused. Is regeneration a trait specific to wereravens? I don't have Curse of Strahd but I don't see any mention of regeneration in any of the were monsters I do have access to. So either I am completely missing it everywhere I look for it, it is specific to wereravens, or people are describing the damage immunity as regeneration.
It's specific to wereravens, mechanically it's the same as troll regen except a weakness to silver instead of acid and fire.
I would add other ways to thwart regeneration, especially in the event of a dragon that can one shot the wereraven. At my table, any form of regeneration that can be thwarted with certain damage types would also be thwarted via a critical hit (which, any attack at 0 would be, for a double tap).
btw dragons know how to learn spells too
but i am curious about how to interpret the stat block? if they drop to zero and then take a bunch more hits, wouldn't they already be dead before the regeneration can do anything on the next turn? or is it really not possible to die at all?
If I remember correctly all fire damage is considered magical even though not all fire is. Fairly sure all damage outside of bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing is also considered magical. Though I could see some arguments such as poison and force. And as far as lycantropy I belive when they changed wereravens they mean all are changed. So they are no longer immune to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing, Instead they regenerate. Wereravens also implies that a pc who gets if would not be altered personality wise cuz they avoid giving it to people who would miss use its power. And people seem to forget werebears have something similar in not wanting to spread the curse. In my game the curse and be embraced and full control can be gained just takes time and some help. Maybe a potion made involving wereblood wolf's bane and other things